[GypsyGoth]

But by your definition Caitlin is a pansexual and you admitted you aren't. So isn't she allowed to have an opinion on pansexuality, even if it's one you don't like?

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

But by your definition Caitlin is a pansexual and you admitted you aren't. So isn't she allowed to have an opinion on pansexuality, even if it's one you don't like?

So she believes that gender is a social construct, that the boundaries between 'men' and 'women' are so blurred that she essentially sees one race of people and makes no distinction between them other than certain obvious biological differences and so as such the 'gender' of a person rarely comes into her head when she's attracted to somebody, and it's the person (personality), not how aesthetically pleasing they are is what is the real thing that attracts her to people?

You can think what you like about different sexualities, but to openly say in front of people who may be struggling to find themselves that a label they associate themselves with is just a way of being 'different' (not that, you know...that's how they may feel, how could anybody else possibly understand and so who is anyone else to pass judgement?) to make themselves stand out isn't acceptable. It's not a fun little easy lifestyle choice, some people actually feel this within them and so to make out it's just as easy as 'oooh let's pick this label cuz it's so cool!' just takes away from the complexity of the situation.

[GypsyGoth]

Originally Posted by Jack_

So she believes that gender is a social construct, that the boundaries between 'men' and 'women' are so blurred that she essentially sees one race of people and makes no distinction between them other than certain obvious biological differences and so as such the 'gender' of a person rarely comes into her head when she's attracted to somebody, and it's the person (personality), not how aesthetically pleasing they are is what is the real thing that attracts her to people?

Yep sure.

So this whole thread you have been rude to a pansexual, and you aren't even one. You have set the pansexual movement back years.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Jack_

So she believes that gender is a social construct, that the boundaries between 'men' and 'women' are so blurred that she essentially sees one race of people and makes no distinction between them other than certain obvious biological differences and so as such the 'gender' of a person rarely comes into her head when she's attracted to somebody, and it's the person (personality), not how aesthetically pleasing they are is what is the real thing that attracts her to people?

You can think what you like about different sexualities, but to openly say in front of people who may be struggling to find themselves that a label they associate themselves with is just a way of being 'different' (not that, you know...that's how they may feel, how could anybody else possibly understand and so who is anyone else to pass judgement?) to make themselves stand out isn't acceptable. It's not a fun little easy lifestyle choice, some people actually feel this within them and so to make out it's just as easy as 'oooh let's pick this label cuz it's so cool!' just takes away from the complexity of the situation.

Who are you to decipher what or how she feels? She, like you may not have configured her own sexuality..
You are running away with this complexity issue, and are coming across as hypersensitive.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

Yep sure.

So this whole thread you have been rude to a pansexual, and you aren't even one. You have set the pansexual movement back years.

Well I'll let her answer that.

And no, because the way I see it is, if you wish to give yourself a label, that's fine. If you don't want to give yourself a label, that's fine. People can identify themselves however they wish and it's rude to directly criticise those labels. I'd actually quite like to make the point that before this happened last night many people were asking questions like 'well surely it's just the same thing as bisexual?' and 'what's the difference between them?' and you'll notice I didn't have an issue - because they're enquiring and not being insulting about it.

Besides, if you believe that is the case - she was accusing herself of trying to be 'different' for the hell of it by using the pansexual label. That doesn't make sense, so it can't be the case. Even if it is, it's still offensive to people who are. I don't have to identify myself as that to find it offensive you know, as I made clear, if the comments had been directed at any other sexual orientation this whole thread would have panned out exactly the same.

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Who are you to decipher what or how she feels? She, like you may not have configured her own sexuality..
You are running away with this complexity issue, and are coming across as hypersensitive.

Well from what I have gathered she has claimed in this thread and in other threads like it to be bisexual, that's what she voted on the poll - there is an option for 'Unidentified' so forgive me for misinterpreting if that is the case, it's not exactly my fault is it? A couple of people asked me for how I saw pansexuality, so I explained - it's nothing to do with 'deciphering' how anybody feels. That's how I see it, another member then insinuated that Ninastar was pansexual so what am I supposed to do when she's clearly voted and stated otherwise? You're making out like she is yet she's stated she isn't and has voted bisexual. If that isn't the case then I apologise (I'm able to), but like I said, all I have to go off is how she has explained her sexuality, so I'm hardly going to decide anything else for her am I? I don't even understand what this has to do with the issue...

And Christ almighty, where am I supposed to start with that? It's quite easy for somebody who hasn't had struggles with understanding their sexuality to make out that it's not as complex and as difficult as some people make out, it's alright when you're sitting pretty without a care in the world in regards to that aspect of your life. But funnily enough it isn't for those who do have to experience it, and for you to make out people are hypersensitive about it when there are people (youths in particular) who feel isolated from society and end up self-harming and taking their lives over this kinda thing is just unreal. The heterosexuals that struggle with their sexuality are few and far between and as such, you have absolutely no understanding of how anybody else is feeling.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Brother Leon

This whole time, I Always thought Pansexual meant you like both genders but not in a sexual way. Shows how much I know.

I always thought pansexual meant falls in love with objects and such.

Like the woman who married the eiffel tower.

Shows how much I know :S

[Marc]

I once shagged the berlin wall

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I always thought pansexual meant falls in love with objects and such.

Like the woman who married the eiffel tower.

Shows how much I know :S

That cheered me up somewhat. Nice to see you Vicky!

[Jake.]

Originally Posted by Marc

I once shagged the berlin wall

Shame it didn't shag you back xx

[Marc]

Originally Posted by JH95

Shame it didn't shag you back xx

Well we were having a great time but then it just fell over :-S

[Ninastar]

You want my honest opinion?

It hasn't changed.

I don't understand pansexuality and I don't think there is a valid enough description for it to truly make sense. I stand by what I said when I meant it's just another word for bisexuality.

If this means offence to you (which I don't really intend) then I am sorry, but honestly, I really really think the reaction for this is way way OTT. As do most of the members of the forum. Clearly I am not in the wrong. This is my opinion. If you choose to take offence then that's down to you. Again, it is not only I who thinks this, it's a majority of the forum.

[reece(:]

The majority of the forum agrees so that's alright then eh, the majority of the forum know where they are and everything is set in stone for their feelings - so it's easy for them to agree and to not take offence but whatever, I'm done flogging a dead horse and it's not like I'm intensely bothered with what people think of it.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

That cheered me up somewhat. Nice to see you Vicky!

Hi

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

You want my honest opinion?

It hasn't changed.

I don't understand pansexuality and I don't think there is a valid enough description for it to truly make sense. I stand by what I said when I meant it's just another word for bisexuality.

If this means offence to you (which I don't really intend) then I am sorry, but honestly, I really really think the reaction for this is way way OTT. As do most of the members of the forum. Clearly I am not in the wrong. This is my opinion. If you choose to take offence then that's down to you. Again, it is not only I who thinks this, it's a majority of the forum.

Well first of all it's nice of you to actually bother to respond to any of the points, at least you've tried somewhat to justify what you said.

But I pointed out the difference in my explanation of it and yet nobody quoted me and tried to argue otherwise? You know I'm quite open to debating this, I can change my opinion if I'm convinced otherwise. Pansexuality is an orientation that's not very well understood and even those who talk about it do have grey areas, you'd need to meet a lifelong pansexual to fully receive a proper explanation. All I'm saying is that even if there's some confusion, some doubt about it, there are still people who see potentially see themselves as pansexual and identify themselves with that label and struggle with all of their feelings - and it's a little insensitive to just claim that it's a way of making yourself look 'different'. Just try and put yourself in that person's shoes and imagine how that'd make them feel, to have their struggles reduced to some way of making themselves stand out (when I'm actually pretty sure that's the last thing they want). A lot of bisexuals are hurt when people claim they're just closeted gay people, that it's not possible, they're doing it because being gay/straight is mainstream, and this is no different. You can have whatever view you want on it, but to post it in full view of a member or two who could potentially be struggling with it is just really insensitive to how they may feel. I'd hardly criticise a Chinese person's country and culture in front of their face, and this is basically the same thing just with a different issue.

The only reason the reaction to this has been in agreement with you is because there's such little understanding of the term. As I've said numerous times, if it had been directed at an asexual, bisexual, homosexual, anyone else - the reaction would've been very different. A lack of understanding is essentially meaning this isn't important. That doesn't make you or the rest of the forum right, in both senses of the word. In fact it's the total opposite.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Hi

How's things with the baby? Not sure if I ever said congrats btw, so congrats

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

I'm not relabelling myself pansexual just because I would have sex with someone who is transgender.

If you would have sex with a transgender then maybe your preferences do extend beyond bisexuality. I have to admit I'm sort of leaning over on Jack's side here, the facts are there in black and white. It's up to people to accept them.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

How's things with the baby? Not sure if I ever said congrats btw, so congrats

Will reply on your wall so as not to take this offtopic and give people reason to moan. cant be done with arguing on my first day back

Edit. Ontopic..I only know one trangendered guy. He hasnt had his ops and that yet though but he identifies himself as a woman and is seriously offended if people regard him as 'transexual'. Obviously one example isnt much but I dont agree with this 'third gender' thing really.

From the explanations in this thread..I *think* I get the difference between pansxuality and bisexuality though its very confusing I have to admit.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Well I'll let her answer that.

And no, because the way I see it is, if you wish to give yourself a label, that's fine. If you don't want to give yourself a label, that's fine. People can identify themselves however they wish and it's rude to directly criticise those labels. I'd actually quite like to make the point that before this happened last night many people were asking questions like 'well surely it's just the same thing as bisexual?' and 'what's the difference between them?' and you'll notice I didn't have an issue - because they're enquiring and not being insulting about it.

Besides, if you believe that is the case - she was accusing herself of trying to be 'different' for the hell of it by using the pansexual label. That doesn't make sense, so it can't be the case. Even if it is, it's still offensive to people who are. I don't have to identify myself as that to find it offensive you know, as I made clear, if the comments had been directed at any other sexual orientation this whole thread would have panned out exactly the same.



Well from what I have gathered she has claimed in this thread and in other threads like it to be bisexual, that's what she voted on the poll - there is an option for 'Unidentified' so forgive me for misinterpreting if that is the case, it's not exactly my fault is it? A couple of people asked me for how I saw pansexuality, so I explained - it's nothing to do with 'deciphering' how anybody feels. That's how I see it, another member then insinuated that Ninastar was pansexual so what am I supposed to do when she's clearly voted and stated otherwise? You're making out like she is yet she's stated she isn't and has voted bisexual. If that isn't the case then I apologise (I'm able to), but like I said, all I have to go off is how she has explained her sexuality, so I'm hardly going to decide anything else for her am I? I don't even understand what this has to do with the issue...

And Christ almighty, where am I supposed to start with that? It's quite easy for somebody who hasn't had struggles with understanding their sexuality to make out that it's not as complex and as difficult as some people make out, it's alright when you're sitting pretty without a care in the world in regards to that aspect of your life. But funnily enough it isn't for those who do have to experience it, and for you to make out people are hypersensitive about it when there are people (youths in particular) who feel isolated from society and end up self-harming and taking their lives over this kinda thing is just unreal. The heterosexuals that struggle with their sexuality are few and far between and as such, you have absolutely no understanding of how anybody else is feeling.

There you go again, just stop... you don't know anything about anyones sexuality past, present or future.
I would tend to agree with nina, there are those who bleat and wring their hands as though they are the only ones in the universe who faces such struggles, and downplays the feelings and the psychological trauma suffered by others deemed to be less troubled for whatever reason.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

There you go again, just stop... you don't know anything about anyones sexuality past, present or future.
I would tend to agree with nina, there are those who bleat and wring their hands as though they are the only ones in the universe who faces such struggles, and downplays the feelings and the psychological trauma suffered by others deemed to be less troubled for whatever reason.

He does make some excellent points though. Why would anybody be ashamed of being heterosexual? I'm not saying that people shouldn't be proud of who they are but straight people have had it relatively easy in history and have never been on the receiving end of any nasty and ignorant abuse.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

There you go again, just stop... you don't know anything about anyones sexuality past, present or future.
I would tend to agree with nina, there are those who bleat and wring their hands as though they are the only ones in the universe who faces such struggles, and downplays the feelings and the psychological trauma suffered by others deemed to be less troubled for whatever reason.

Why I'm bothering to reply when all you ever get is a sentence or two as a response I don't really know...

I never said some heterosexuals don't struggle, but come on, it's comparatively less compared to other orientations.

And hang on a minute...that's completely untrue. Perhaps if you paid any attention to a lot of my posts in serious topics on here you'd notice that I quite often defend the most vulnerable in society, those who face a lot of struggles with issues that have nothing to do with sexuality. I'm a big supporter of minority rights, stick up for those most demonised and at the very bottom of the social scale. Don't try and make out because I've spoken about struggles that perhaps I or other people have faced that that's all I go on about, when I quite clearly do not. Struggling is struggling. It's not a competition, all cases are as bad as each other and require equal levels of compassion.

Originally Posted by Redway

He does make some excellent points though. Why would anybody be ashamed of being heterosexual? I'm not saying that people shouldn't be proud of who they are but straight people have had it relatively easy in history and have never been on the receiving end of any nasty and ignorant abuse.

Exactly. Thank you.

Jesus made a good point the other day when he said that as a straight man he sometimes forgets how easy it can be to be heterosexual and how it isn't possible for him to understand the struggles people who aren't heterosexual go through and so he remains accepting and respectful. I think it was along those lines anyway, hopefully he won't mind me quoting it.

It's not to say they haven't ever received abuse, I'm sure there's some cases in the world, but let's not delude ourselves here, compared to most other orientations they have it and have always had it relatively easy.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Redway

He does make some excellent points though. Why would anybody be ashamed of being heterosexual? I'm not saying that people shouldn't be proud of who they are but straight people have had it relatively easy in history and have never been on the receiving end of any nasty and ignorant abuse.

I am heterosexual, are all heterosexual people in the world born knowing they are such? do they not have the same struggles throughout puberty and into young adulthood, confusing or conflicting feelings?...
One sexuality does not have the monopoly on emotional trauma.
Jack began this crusade as he was offended by a comment made, has battled on all day and is now making more unwarranted comments trying to prove a point on a subject that ultimately he has no knowledge of.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Why I'm bothering to reply when all you ever get is a sentence or two as a response I don't really know...

I never said some heterosexuals don't struggle, but come on, it's comparatively less compared to other orientations.

And hang on a minute...that's completely untrue. Perhaps if you paid any attention to a lot of my posts in serious topics on here you'd notice that I quite often defend the most vulnerable in society, those who face a lot of struggles with issues that have nothing to do with sexuality. I'm a big supporter of minority rights, stick up for those most demonised and at the very bottom of the social scale. Don't try and make out because I've spoken about struggles that perhaps I or other people have faced that that's all I go on about, when I quite clearly do not. Struggling is struggling. It's not a competition, all cases are as bad as each other and require equal levels of compassion.



Exactly. Thank you.

Jesus made a good point the other day when he said that as a straight man he sometimes forgets how easy it can be to be heterosexual and how it isn't possible for him to understand the struggles people who aren't heterosexual go through and so he remains accepting and respectful. I think it was along those lines anyway, hopefully he won't mind me quoting it.

It's not to say they haven't ever received abuse, I'm sure there's some cases in the world, but let's not delude ourselves here, compared to most other orientations they have it and have always had it relatively easy.

I couldn't resist laughing at Jesus being tolerant of sexual minorities.

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I am heterosexual, are all heterosexual people in the world born knowing they are such? do they not have the same struggles throughout puberty and into young adulthood, confusing or conflicting feelings?...
One sexuality does not have the monopoly on emotional trauma.
Jack began this crusade as he was offended by a comment made, has battled on all day and is now making more unwarranted comments trying to prove a point on a subject that ultimately he has no knowledge of.

Well yeah that's right. Obviously most people go through weird sexual phases in their life and may be unsure/confused about who they are, but surely you have to admit that people who aren't straight have it ten-fold?

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Redway

I couldn't resist laughing at Jesus being tolerant of sexual minorities.

Of course, I totally missed the obvious joke in that! Reading it back it's funny