[Livia]

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

Also bear in mind football is the working class game, Ron Atkinson will have been brought up and experienced an environment where you would think nothing of throwing around comments like the n word, or ginger in the name of banter. it's not right by any stretch of the imagination and now for the most part we have moved on but a little context is required here.

Coming from one of the poorest, most culturally diverse areas of London, I resent that remark. Since I moved to the country I've heard more blatant racism from the affluent middle classes that I ever heard from the working class.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Livia

Coming from one of the poorest, most culturally diverse areas of London, I resent that remark. Since I moved to the country I've heard more blatant racism from the affluent middle classes that I ever heard from the working class.

Resent it all you want I have still been to football games and heard people say things like "pass it to the black lad" or "watch the darkie". Thankfully it's rare now but it still happens.

I don't hang around with middle class people because I am WORKING CLASS but I have no doubt they can be guilty of racism too, though my main gripe with them is elitism but then again I'm white.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

Resent it all you want I have still been to football games and heard people say things like "pass it to the black lad" or "watch the darkie". Thankfully it's rare now but it still happens.

I don't hang around with middle class people because I am WORKING CLASS but I have no doubt they can be guilty of racism too, though my main gripe with them is elitism but then again I'm white.

I'm a West Ham fan, I know what they sing. You get racists everywhere although I'm not sure what's particularly racist about "pass it to the black lad"?

You post asked us to consider poor Ron being born into a working class background, intimating we should make exceptions for him because of that. Erm... no.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Livia

I'm a West Ham fan, I know what they sing. You get racists everywhere although I'm not sure what's particularly racist about "pass it to the black lad"?

You post asked us to consider poor Ron being born into a working class background, intimating we should make exceptions for him because of that. Erm... no.

Where am I making exceptions? I said context not exception, football in England has mostly been a white working class sport for decades.

If we were talking about Rugby or cricket then by all means lets discuss the upper echelons of society and their deep set racist ways.

And as for "pass it to the black lad" I've seen people done for less. Alan Hanson was castigated for using the word coloured when describing a player.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

Where am I making exceptions? I said context not exception, football in England has mostly been a white working class sport for decades.

If we were talking about Rugby or cricket then by all means lets discuss the upper echelons of society and their deep set racist ways.

And as for "pass it to the black lad" I've seen people done for less. Alan Hanson was castigated for using the word coloured when describing a player.

You said, and I quote "Also bear in mind football is the working class game, Ron Atkinson will have been brought up and experienced an environment where you would think nothing of throwing around comments like the n word" Are you not saying there that he was brought up working class where people would think nothing of using the N word? Because that's what it looks like to me.

I only mentioned that I've heard more racist language from the middle-class than I did from the working class because you had said how inherently racist the working class is! I think you know that though, you're just talking about cricket and "upper echelons" to muddy the waters. That's fine...

Coloured is not an acceptable word and quite right Hanson should have been pulled up for it. Although I don't think anyone's going to mind someone saying "pass it to the black lad", and it's quite out of touch to assume that it would be.

[Verbal]

Originally Posted by Livia

You said, and I quote "Also bear in mind football is the working class game, Ron Atkinson will have been brought up and experienced an environment where you would think nothing of throwing around comments like the n word" Are you not saying there that he was brought up working class where people would think nothing of using the N word? Because that's what it looks like to me.

I only mentioned that I've heard more racist language from the middle-class than I did from the working class because you had said how inherently racist the working class is! I think you know that though, you're just talking about cricket and "upper echelons" to muddy the waters. That's fine...

Coloured is not an acceptable word and quite right Hanson should have been pulled up for it. Although I don't think anyone's going to mind someone saying "pass it to the black lad", and it's quite out of touch to assume that it would be.

That and far far worse was more than acceptable 30 years ago.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Livia

You said, and I quote "Also bear in mind football is the working class game, Ron Atkinson will have been brought up and experienced an environment where you would think nothing of throwing around comments like the n word" Are you not saying there that he was brought up working class where people would think nothing of using the N word? Because that's what it looks like to me.

I only mentioned that I've heard more racist language from the middle-class than I did from the working class because you had said how inherently racist the working class is! I think you know that though, you're just talking about cricket and "upper echelons" to muddy the waters. That's fine...

Coloured is not an acceptable word and quite right Hanson should have been pulled up for it. Although I don't think anyone's going to mind someone saying "pass it to the black lad", and it's quite out of touch to assume that it would be.

So coloured is bang out of order and black is fine? Reet then...

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

So coloured is bang out of order and black is fine? Reet then...

Yes. Would you like to know why? Coloured is a term that is associated with apartheid.

[CaudleHalbard]

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

So coloured is bang out of order and black is fine? Reet then...

It used to be that referring to a person as 'black' was almost as bad as the dreaded n-word and that 'coloured' was perfectly polite.

Funny old world, eh?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by CynicalHermit

That and far far worse was more than acceptable 30 years ago.

Maybe, but things move on. If he has the mental capacity to run a successful football club you'd think he'd be able to learn some simple manners. He's older, he should be wiser.

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

So coloured is bang out of order and black is fine? Reet then...

I didn't say "coloured" was bang out of order, I said it was unacceptable. I don't get what's so hard to understand about that.