[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by Verbal

A lot of people on this thread seem to be taking that attitude. I wonder if they would be saying the same if one was done 3 years ago for mugging an old lady or punching a child in the face.

Those crimes are a lot more serious than petty theft though.

[Me. I Am Salman]

Why would you call a 16 year old girl scum of the earth

[Benjamin]

Verbal it was you earlier saying you cannot compare certain things, well you can't compare what you just said, they are hugely different.

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Ben

My point was (using myself as an example) not everybody who does those things goes on to be a bad person or lead a bad life.

she may not be a bad person in the future, but (this is just my opinion) it makes her a bad person now.

I think stealing shows absolutely no signs of respect. And she's also beaten someone up, right? Clearly, again, there is something wrong there. And she may have been 'racist' but I doubt that very much. She was probably just trying to save her skin there.

I don't mean any offence to you here. I just don't think they should be, in a sense, glorifying the fact that she stole, no matter what it was. they are allowing her to stay on a show and act like she's amazing. I just think it's wrong.

then again, it's things like this that have made me stop watching. Sharon Osborne doesn't help either.

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Ben

Those crimes are a lot more serious than petty theft though.

if she has stolen from a store, what's to say she wouldn't steal something from an old lady with a bag wide open on the bus?

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Verbal

A lot of people on this thread seem to be taking that attitude. I wonder if they would be saying the same if one was done 3 years ago for mugging an old lady or punching a child in the face.

...I can only really speak for myself..tbh, I don't know I would feel because she didn't do that, so it's hard to say but I do completely understand your point....I think it was Adam in last years BB who had a 'shady past' but he had actively changed his lifestyle and helped others do the same and if he had won, for me he would have been very deserving...it's all very recent for Tamera and I have to believe what she says and that she regrets things and maybe in time and if being on XFactor gives her fame, then she too can help others and even become an 'inspiration' in many ways because she's inspires through personal and real experiences ....and the sort of thing that for many young people can be reality....

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

if she has stolen from a store, what's to say she wouldn't steal something from an old lady with a bag wide open on the bus?

Because not everyone goes on to do that or there would a hell of a lot more muggings on old ladies than there currently is.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

she may not be a bad person in the future, but (this is just my opinion) it makes her a bad person now.

I think stealing shows absolutely no signs of respect. And she's also beaten someone up, right? Clearly, again, there is something wrong there. And she may have been 'racist' but I doubt that very much. She was probably just trying to save her skin there.

I don't mean any offence to you here. I just don't think they should be, in a sense, glorifying the fact that she stole, no matter what it was. they are allowing her to stay on a show and act like she's amazing. I just think it's wrong.

then again, it's things like this that have made me stop watching. Sharon Osborne doesn't help either.

..I do think there's a difference though Caitlin between glorifying and helping someone's life to change or not dismissing them because of the things she did...

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Ben

Because not everyone goes on to do that or there would a hell of a lot more muggings on old ladies than there currently is.

is there even a statistics for number of old lady muggings?

i just don't think there is any way to tell whether she would do it or not. If anything, the only thing we can gather from her stealing is that she can't be trusted. I wouldn't risk leaving her with an old lady who has left her bag open, or in a shop with hardly any security.

again, that's just me.

[Verbal]

People are taking comments made in this thread far too seriously.

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I do think there's a difference though Caitlin between glorifying and helping someone's life to change or not dismissing them because of the things she did...

She shouldn't get help though. It's something she should do on her own imo.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

is there even a statistics for number of old lady muggings?

i just don't think there is any way to tell whether she would do it or not. If anything, the only thing we can gather from her stealing is that she can't be trusted. I wouldn't risk leaving her with an old lady who has left her bag open, or in a shop with hardly any security.
again, that's just me.

Originally Posted by Ninastar

She shouldn't get help though. It's something she should do on her own imo.

..that's a valid point about being trusted ..I think that if you're arrested/convicted/cautioned etc with something that betrays trust then it does effect certain areas of your life which that would be part of...but being an XFactor contestant or success wouldn't apply....I do understand and respect how you feel but it's so difficult to achieve what she has the talent for 'on your own', which is one of the great things about XFactor....

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..that's a valid point about being trusted ..I think that if you're arrested/convicted/cautioned etc with something that betrays trust then it does effect certain areas of your life which that would be part of...but being an XFactor contestant or success wouldn't apply....I do understand and respect how you feel but it's so difficult to achieve what she has the talent for 'on your own', which is one of the great things about XFactor....

Yeah, you're right.

It just annoys me how I've seen comments of people saying she's a 'legend' or saying it's not a big deal, because to me it is. It's an awful thing to do and it's just plain wrong. I just feel like some people here don't think stealing is a bad thing and it's something everyone does once in their life.

[MrWong]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I can only really speak for myself..tbh, I don't know I would feel because she didn't do that, so it's hard to say but I do completely understand your point....I think it was Adam in last years BB who had a 'shady past' but he had actively changed his lifestyle and helped others do the same and if he had won, for me he would have been very deserving...it's all very recent for Tamera and I have to believe what she says and that she regrets things and maybe in time and if being on XFactor gives her fame, then she too can help others and even become an 'inspiration' in many ways because she's inspires through personal and real experiences ....and the sort of thing that for many young people can be reality....

Better that than to be labeled chav scum and consigned to the scrap heap.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

I agree with Verbal. she should be seen as a thief and nothing more.

But you do realise that labelling someone as a criminal and wanting to hold it against their name for the rest of their life actually has more detrimental consequences than if you let them face the punishment for what they did and then let them start with a clean slate? What you're suggesting would mean she's chastised for the rest of her life, struggles to find a job and would inevitably return to shoplifting to fend for herself. If you don't give criminals a fresh start once they've served their punishment, and wish to label them forever, they will end up returning to a life of crime since that's the only thing they're ever going to be seen as.

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Jack_

But you do realise that labelling someone as a criminal and wanting to hold it against their name for the rest of their life actually has more detrimental consequences than if you let them face the punishment for what they did and then let them start with a clean slate? What you're suggesting would mean she's chastised for the rest of her life, struggles to find a job and would inevitably return to shoplifting to fend for herself. If you don't give criminals a fresh start once they've served their punishment, and wish to label them forever, they will end up returning to a life of crime since that's the only thing they're ever going to be seen as.

If you read what I later posted, I said that I believe that being a thief makes her a bad person now. Maybe she will become a better person in the future, but as of right now, she is nothing more than a thief in my eyes.

[Verbal]

Originally Posted by Jack_

But you do realise that labelling someone as a criminal and wanting to hold it against their name for the rest of their life actually has more detrimental consequences than if you let them face the punishment for what they did and then let them start with a clean slate? What you're suggesting would mean she's chastised for the rest of her life, struggles to find a job and would inevitably return to shoplifting to fend for herself. If you don't give criminals a fresh start once they've served their punishment, and wish to label them forever, they will end up returning to a life of crime since that's the only thing they're ever going to be seen as.

I said that she should be kicked out of the show not labelled for life. Nobody with a criminal record should be allowed on these things in the first place.

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Verbal

I said that she should be kicked out of the show not labelled for life. Nobody with a criminal record should be allowed on these things in the first place.

i agree with this

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by Verbal

I said that she should be kicked out of the show not labelled for life. Nobody with a criminal record should be allowed on these things in the first place.

That's completely ridiculous.

She only has a caution

[Verbal]

Originally Posted by Glenn

That's completely ridiculous.

She only has a caution

Its quite clear, as is evident in this thread that it is giving young people the impression that its 'nothing'. She committed a crime, as a result of committing that crime she should have had to forfeit any right she had to engage in such a competition.
At least for a set amount of time.

[Jordan.]

Well she isn't getting kicked out so get over it

[Kizzy]

The competition isn't over yet is it... Let's hope she keeps her nose clean eh?

[icecakes]

Originally Posted by Verbal

I said that she should be kicked out of the show not labelled for life. Nobody with a criminal record should be allowed on these things in the first place.

I agree verbal, rough copy should be kicked out as well

[Kizzy]

It was odd one couldn't go to the US, doesn't that usually indicate drug offences?
How will that be workable if they do win?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Verbal

And Salman, please stop sending me intimidating messages. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Braden

This is ridiculous...girls who don't fit the 'indie' or 'Adele' stereotype are torn to pieces by the press and made out to be complete monsters.

It's horrible.

Yeah, poor thieves being exposed as such. What have they done to warrant that?