[Jordan.]

Originally Posted by Jemal

But mate, your still choosing..
Lie or no lie you are choosing.

Let me use you as an example, dont take offence to this but just a harmless example.
You could be straight right now because you choose not to be gay.
True or false.
Either way you choose your sexuality because if you want to be gay you can bloody be gay? If you choose not to be gay, you choose to go for girls and now especially if you like both sex's you CHOOSE to be bloody bisexual.

What people are getting mixed up is the feelings. You dont choose your feelings of course but you choose your sexuality, lie or not, that is the truth.

If it was as simple as that do you think gay people would open themselves up to ignorance and abuse if they could just choose to be straight?

[subliminal]

Supposing someone turned to a fellow housemate and expressed all of those thoughts - comparing gay people to being 'handicapped' - 'a choice' - and something that should be 'fixed' etc - but about black people instead?

What do you think the outcome of that conversation would have been?

So please explain why it is any more acceptable to say those things about gay people?

[the truth]

Originally Posted by subliminal

Supposing someone turned to a fellow housemate and expressed all of those thoughts - comparing gay people to being 'handicapped' - 'a choice' - and something that should be 'fixed' etc - but about black people instead?

What do you think the outcome of that conversation would have been?

So please explain why it is any more acceptable to say those things about gay people?

he didnt say that

[subliminal]

Supposing someone turned to a fellow housemate and expressed all of those thoughts - comparing gay people to being 'handicapped' - 'a choice' - and something that should be 'fixed' etc - but about black people instead?

What do you think the outcome of that conversation would have been?

So please explain why it is any more acceptable to say those things about gay people?

Originally Posted by the truth

he didnt say that

Actual quotes for you

Evander: No, it don’t make no difference. If you were born and your leg were turned this way, what do you do, you go to the doctor and get it fixed back right. (suggesting that if you are gay you are akin to being handicapped / disabled and you go get it fixed)
Luisa: It’s not about being fixed, it’s about… that’s just the way that you are.
Evander: No no no no no, you mean to tell me…
Luisa: I really don’t want to have this conversation.
Evander: I’m not mad, I’m just saying…
Luisa: You don’t understand, I don’t think it’s an appropriate conversation to have in this house, honestly.
Evander: All I’m trying to tell you, you know how handicapped people are born, you can’t say because they were born that way… (See below)
Luisa: You can’t compare, of course you can’t compare someone that’s gay to someone that’s handicapped, it’s not a choice.
Evander: Yes it is a choice, come on, that ain’t the way nobody is made. (suggesting gay people are not born that way - I can tell you as a gay man I most definitely WAS born gay. Growing up as a child in a deeply homophobic society with all of the hatred and bullying I endured - don't you think if I had the choice I would have chosen to be gay???)
Luisa: I’m tired. I don’t think people have a choice in their sexuality, or they would be unhappy.
Today, Big Brother called Evander to the Diary Room to caution him about offensive language, but stopped short of giving him an formal reprimand.
“Before you entered the Big Brother house, the rules regarding unacceptable language and behaviour were explained to you. Last night, in a conversation with Luisa, you expressed the view that being gay was not normal and that it could be fixed,” explained Big Brother.
“While Big Brother understands these are the views you hold, they aren’t the views that are held by a large section of society and expressing these views will be extremely offensive to many people. Do you understand why?”

[Benjamin]

Evander: No, it don’t make no difference. If you were born and your leg were turned this way, what do you do, you go to the doctor and get it fixed back right.
Luisa: It’s not about being fixed, it’s about… that’s just the way that you are.
Evander: No no no no no, you mean to tell me…
Luisa: I really don’t want to have this conversation.
Evander: I’m not mad, I’m just saying…
Luisa: You don’t understand, I don’t think it’s an appropriate conversation to have in this house, honestly.
Evander: All I’m trying to tell you, you know how handicapped people are born, you can’t say because they were born that way…
Luisa: You can’t compare, of course you can’t compare someone that’s gay to someone that’s handicapped, it’s not a choice.
Evander: Yes it is a choice, come on, that ain’t the way nobody is made.
Luisa: I’m tired. I don’t think people have a choice in their sexuality, or they would be unhappy.
Today, Big Brother called Evander to the Diary Room to caution him about offensive language, but stopped short of giving him an formal reprimand.
“Before you entered the Big Brother house, the rules regarding unacceptable language and behaviour were explained to you. Last night, in a conversation with Luisa, you expressed the view that being gay was not normal and that it could be fixed,” explained Big Brother.
“While Big Brother understands these are the views you hold, they aren’t the views that are held by a large section of society and expressing these views will be extremely offensive to many people. Do you understand why?”

He doesn't show hatred to homosexuality.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by Benjamin

He doesn't show hatred to homosexuality.

But saying it can be fixed inherently means that he views it as wrong and needing fixing.

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by troynuncdicit

But saying it can be fixed inherently means that he views it as wrong and needing fixing.

Oh yes, I haven't disagreed his opinion is wrong, I just don't see it as homophobia, just narrow minded.

[MeMyselfAndI]

Originally Posted by Benjamin

He doesn't show hatred to homosexuality.

normally when someone says 'but' or 'I'm just saying', they follow it up with an insult, it doesn't mean they're not mad/insulting at all, I thought everyone knew that

e.g.
"I'm not being rude, but you look like ****"

[subliminal]

Originally Posted by Benjamin

He doesn't show hatred to homosexuality.

He didn't have to express hatred - he expressed enough through his homophobic views thanks. Oh and as a gay man I think this description of homophobia is about right...

'Homophobia encompasses a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality or people who are identified or perceived as being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT). It can be expressed as antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, or hatred, may be based on irrational fear, and is sometimes related to religious beliefs.'

[the truth]

Originally Posted by subliminal

He didn't have to express hatred - he expressed enough through his homophobic views thanks. Oh and as a gay man I think this description of homophobia is about right...

'Homophobia encompasses a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality or people who are identified or perceived as being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT). It can be expressed as antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, or hatred, may be based on irrational fear, and is sometimes related to religious beliefs.'

what nonsense. Ive read more hatred of hetrosexual men on here than any homophobia....in fact bashing hetro males is a national sport. I suppose it will be banned one day but only when we think of a word for it....manphobia.....we cant even called farmers sheep shaggers any more lol

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by subliminal

He didn't have to express hatred - he expressed enough through his homophobic views thanks. Oh and as a gay man I think this description of homophobia is about right...

'Homophobia encompasses a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality or people who are identified or perceived as being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT). It can be expressed as antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, or hatred, may be based on irrational fear, and is sometimes related to religious beliefs.'

Yes, thanks for giving me wikipedia's description of homophobia. Homophobia is seen in different levels depending upon the person. I am gay and do not see it as homophobic. I do not need a wiki paragraph telling me otherwise.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by subliminal

Supposing someone turned to a fellow housemate and expressed all of those thoughts - comparing gay people to being 'handicapped' - 'a choice' - and something that should be 'fixed' etc - but about black people instead?

What do you think the outcome of that conversation would have been?

So please explain why it is any more acceptable to say those things about gay people?



Actual quotes for you

Evander: No, it don’t make no difference. If you were born and your leg were turned this way, what do you do, you go to the doctor and get it fixed back right. (suggesting that if you are gay you are akin to being handicapped / disabled and you go get it fixed)
Luisa: It’s not about being fixed, it’s about… that’s just the way that you are.
Evander: No no no no no, you mean to tell me…
Luisa: I really don’t want to have this conversation.
Evander: I’m not mad, I’m just saying…
Luisa: You don’t understand, I don’t think it’s an appropriate conversation to have in this house, honestly.
Evander: All I’m trying to tell you, you know how handicapped people are born, you can’t say because they were born that way… (See below)
Luisa: You can’t compare, of course you can’t compare someone that’s gay to someone that’s handicapped, it’s not a choice.
Evander: Yes it is a choice, come on, that ain’t the way nobody is made. (suggesting gay people are not born that way - I can tell you as a gay man I most definitely WAS born gay. Growing up as a child in a deeply homophobic society with all of the hatred and bullying I endured - don't you think if I had the choice I would have chosen to be gay???)
Luisa: I’m tired. I don’t think people have a choice in their sexuality, or they would be unhappy.
Today, Big Brother called Evander to the Diary Room to caution him about offensive language, but stopped short of giving him an formal reprimand.
“Before you entered the Big Brother house, the rules regarding unacceptable language and behaviour were explained to you. Last night, in a conversation with Luisa, you expressed the view that being gay was not normal and that it could be fixed,” explained Big Brother.
“While Big Brother understands these are the views you hold, they aren’t the views that are held by a large section of society and expressing these views will be extremely offensive to many people. Do you understand why?”

thats your experience and I wish you luck , but that doesnt mean every homosexual person is the same. some are some arent, were all different people on this planet., yet you are guilty now of genberalizing about all gay people having no choices and all being the same as you...isnt it stereotyping youre rpeachinbg against? isnt it acase where we are all individuals

so evander thinks some people choose it, so what? maybe they do maybe they dont so what? its just an opinion. you dont need to get offended by this , its not necessarily you hes discussing. granted there have been and will always be people who think its worng or whatever. but banning people from their opinions and thoughts on it , will get us nowhere.

the gay people I know have no issues displaying their sexuality or love for whoever....so why is it an issue to get a man banned for simply stating his own opinion? how does that help a free democratic society/

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Jordan.

If it was as simple as that do you think gay people would open themselves up to ignorance and abuse if they could just choose to be straight?

Those days are long gone ,you are talking of years ago ,when (as Peter Kay so rightly says) Your Mother would never have said the word lesbian ,they said it under their breath ,those day are long gone ,as someone said ^^ its not frowned upon now, its the "In thing" due to shows like BB ,who over the years the vast majority of gay housemates have been the BEST housemates

[Jordan.]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Those days are long gone ,you are talking of years ago ,when (as Peter Kay so rightly says) Your Mother would never have said the word lesbian ,they said it under their breath ,those day are long gone ,as someone said ^^ its not frowned upon now, its the "In thing" due to shows like BB ,who over the years the vast majority of gay housemates have been the BEST housemates

The ignorance never stops

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Jordan.

The ignorance never stops

Of course it does, thats a stupid thing to say

[Jordan.]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Of course it does, thats a stupid thing to say

I think you've proven to be the stupid one here. Even when given a valid point you still think it's a choice and one that's simply to be an "In thing".

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Jordan.

I think you've proven to be the stupid one here. Even when given a valid point you still think it's a choice and one that's simply to be an "In thing".

Jordan think what the hell you like ,your opinion is just that, YOURS

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Jordan.

The ignorance never stops

It doesn't and it seems past prejudices and odd views of being gay are still well and truly around as demonstrated by the views of Evander on BB tonight.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

It doesn't and is seems past prejudices and odd views of being gay are still well and truly around as demonstrated by the views of Evander on BB tonight.

Hes lived his life in the boxing circle, where I doubt they are very few gay men ,hes also very religious ,I do NOT agree with some of what he said,but I defend his right to say what he said

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Hes lived his life in the boxing circle, where I doubt they are very few gay men ,hes also very religious ,I do NOT agree with some of what he said,but I defend his right to say what he said

That's a valid point, as to his life and the people he will have been around, that doesn't excuse ignorance though for me.

You know I love your posts Chuff and very often agree many times with you too. I take on board his background but he is on a national TV programme which he is well aware is being filmd 24/7.

So while he has,in that environment within reason, every right to say what he thinks of course.
It is then,(I think anyway),better counsel to curb what you say in that public environment that may not be an acceptable justification for the viewpoint.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

That's a valid point, as to his life and the people he will have been around, that doesn't excuse ignorance though for me.

You know I love your posts Chuff and very often agree many times with you too. I take on board his background but he is on a national TV programme which he is well aware is being filmd 24/7.

So while he has,in that environment within reason, every right to say what he thinks of course.
It is then,(I think anyway),better counsel to curb what you say in that public environment that may not be an acceptable justification for the viewpoint.

He did himself no favours tonight by what he said ,but thats not my argument Joey its his right to say it that i think where the argument lies ,I loath and kick and scream against the PC brigade and always will ,no one has a right to tell me,or anyone else what they are allowed to say or think ,they can tell you they dont agree with what you said and then it stops there, to carry on after that is arrogance

[Macie Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Those days are long gone ,you are talking of years ago ,when (as Peter Kay so rightly says) Your Mother would never have said the word lesbian ,they said it under their breath ,those day are long gone ,as someone said ^^ its not frowned upon now, its the "In thing" due to shows like BB ,who over the years the vast majority of gay housemates have been the BEST housemates

I don't like in the UK and quite frankly know nothing about British legislation and whatnot, but if we expand this to worldwide (which considering that Evander is American, I think we have to look worldwide) this is simply not true lmfao like blatantly false.