[starry]

If he'd confronted someone over it and started an argument or harrassed someone I'd understand the DR chat, but as it was it seemed an attempt by the producers to increase the ratings by generating controversy.

[sampvt]

Originally Posted by daniel-lewis-1985

Yet another personal attack.

Just calm down you have serious aggression.

Oh come on Daniel, stop playing the victim, you are just as bad when it suits. You keep telling me off for playing the victim, he is winding you up mate, you are big enough to deal with him using rhetoric, not tears.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Jezzy

Labels, labels. Society loves them yet human beings are so much more complex than the narrow viewpoint that any label implies. Define a Christian. Define a homosexual. Yes, you can at a basic level by what those words represent, but people are individuals with their own beliefs.

What we need is not political correctness, not the forcing of views on others, it's tolerance. Learn to tolerate other people's differences whether or not you agree with them. Learn to accept there ARE differences. Realise that morality is controlled by society.

The world is already becoming too homogenised. Voltaire said it best 300 years ago:

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.

Freedom of speech and thought applies to both sides of an argument and encompasses all viewpoints. Having said that, it was naive of Evander to air his beliefs on TV. It's a very tricky subject which has not been resolved in the whole of human history and I doubt it ever will be.

Hugs to Livia and Chuff

Hugs to you too ,and totally agree with what you said above, no one can tell another person what they can say or think ,EVERYONE has a right to their opinions ,and a right to voice them ,if you dont agree walk away ,or in this case turn your Tv over

[Razor]

Who cares, that's his opinion and he is entitled to it even if others don't agree with him.

He is clearly wrong that being gay can be 'fixed' as he puts it and he comes across as though he doesn't know what he is talking about. Either way no one should be offended and if anything he should be laughed at for saying something so stupid.

[daniel-lewis-1985]

Originally Posted by sampvt

Oh come on Daniel, stop playing the victim, you are just as bad when it suits. You keep telling me off for playing the victim, he is winding you up mate, you are big enough to deal with him using rhetoric, not tears.

Im not playing any victim but when someone (who shall not be name but is banned) is twisting words, talking ****e and throwing personal insults at myself and the other individuals then personally yeah I do feel victimised.

I made an unbiased thread and someone comes in shouting abuse, not just at me but others aswell.

It was just bollocks.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Jezzy

Labels, labels. Society loves them yet human beings are so much more complex than the narrow viewpoint that any label implies. Define a Christian. Define a homosexual. Yes, you can at a basic level by what those words represent, but people are individuals with their own beliefs.

What we need is not political correctness, not the forcing of views on others, it's tolerance. Learn to tolerate other people's differences whether or not you agree with them. Learn to accept there ARE differences. Realise that morality is controlled by society.

The world is already becoming too homogenised. Voltaire said it best 300 years ago:

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.

Freedom of speech and thought applies to both sides of an argument and encompasses all viewpoints. Having said that, it was naive of Evander to air his beliefs on TV. It's a very tricky subject which has not been resolved in the whole of human history and I doubt it ever will be.

Hugs to Livia and Chuff

This is refreshingly broad minded, there are cultural differences and a whole host of religious ones which have had a part to play here.
It's really apt on a show called 'big brother' to be hauled over coals by thought police though?

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by flamingGalah!

But saying it could be changable is saying that there is something wrong with being gay, as if it is an ailment that needs fixing! That is what is so very very wrong!



Chuff with deepest respect, that is absolute nonsense...

I know people who have married, had children ,then they are gay ,not everyone is born gay

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

I know people who have married, had children ,then they are gay ,not everyone is born gay

That doesn't mean they weren't always gay though. Alot of people felt like they had to pretend they were straight so people would think they were normal and so they weren't disappointing/embarrassing their families. Just because a person is gay or straight doesn't mean they can't have gay or straight sex.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Jezzy

Labels, labels. Society loves them yet human beings are so much more complex than the narrow viewpoint that any label implies. Define a Christian. Define a homosexual. Yes, you can at a basic level by what those words represent, but people are individuals with their own beliefs.

What we need is not political correctness, not the forcing of views on others, it's tolerance. Learn to tolerate other people's differences whether or not you agree with them. Learn to accept there ARE differences. Realise that morality is controlled by society.

The world is already becoming too homogenised. Voltaire said it best 300 years ago:

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.

Freedom of speech and thought applies to both sides of an argument and encompasses all viewpoints. Having said that, it was naive of Evander to air his beliefs on TV. It's a very tricky subject which has not been resolved in the whole of human history and I doubt it ever will be.

Hugs to Livia and Chuff

This is refreshingly broad minded, there are cultural differences and a whole host of religious ones which have had a part to play here.
It's really apt on a show called 'big brother' to be hauled over coals by thought police though?

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

That doesn't mean they weren't always gay though. Alot of people felt like they had to pretend they were straight so people would think they were normal and so they weren't disappointing/embarrassing their families. Just because a person is gay or straight doesn't mean they can't have gay or straight sex.

i doubt we will ever know ,i cannot talk for every hetrosexual in the world, any more than any gay person can speak for the gays of the world, I was just talking of things i knew about

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

i doubt we will ever know ,i cannot talk for every hetrosexual in the world, any more than any gay person can speak for the gays of the world, I was just talking of things i knew about

That's true but did that person actually say, I used to be straight but then I decided to turn gay?

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

That's true but did that person actually say, I used to be straight but then I decided to turn gay?

I wasnt talking of one person individually ,as i said last night i know of 4 men 3 got married, but they all had children ,and not just one child in one case ,he had 4 ,he must have been slow at making his mind up

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by MTVN

He was a bit of a nob with it, fair enough if that's his view (even though it's pretty dumb) but Luisa realised early on that the conversation was going down a bit of a dodgy path and he kept forcing it even though she could see it wasn't a very appropriate thing for them to discuss, partly because of how wildly different their views were and partly because of it airing out to millions of people who were bound to find it offensive

She brought it up because of his beliefs imo, the tone of her voice as she attempted to close the convo was accusatory too.
What I took from it was he suggested that in his opinion you weren't homosexual unless a 'practicing' one. It's an old fashioned view but not one I consider offensive.

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

That's true but did that person actually say, I used to be straight but then I decided to turn gay?

Niamh, I have known a couple of women who did exactly that after damaging heterosexual relationships.

The whole thing is massively complex and cannot be generalised at all imo.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Jezzy

Niamh, I have known a couple of women who did exactly that after damaging heterosexual relationships.

The whole thing is massively complex and cannot be generalised at all imo.

Thats just what I was trying to get across

[Me. I Am Salman]

Even if that was true which it's not Evander was referring to the entire gay demographic

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

This is refreshingly broad minded, there are cultural differences and a whole host of religious ones which have had a part to play here.
It's really apt on a show called 'big brother' to be hauled over coals by thought police though?

You are absolutely right Kizzy. One would hope by now that people would realise that airing controversial opinions on such a show would inevitably lead to being hauled over the coals. And it's right to do so, and to question.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jezzy

Niamh, I have known a couple of women who did exactly that after damaging heterosexual relationships.

The whole thing is massively complex and cannot be generalised at all imo.

They must have had atleast bisexual tendencies beforehand though, surely? I mean if I was that damaged by a man, I'd go celibate rather than sleep with a woman tbh

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

They must have had atleast bisexual tendencies beforehand though, surely? I mean if I was that damaged by a man, I'd go celibate rather than sleep with a woman tbh

Yes me too,but not everyones the same

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

They must have had atleast bisexual tendencies beforehand though, surely? I mean if I was that damaged by a man, I'd go celibate rather than sleep with a woman tbh

I guess it depends on how you get your comfort...for some people it's close physical contact, hugging, the knowledge that someone will be there for them....sex is just a natural progression from feelings of love and security? Going celibate also implies a life lived in coldness tbh, most people need someone to share their lives with, showing physical appreciation isn't such a bad thing.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jezzy

I guess it depends on how you get your comfort...for some people it's close physical contact, hugging, the knowledge that someone will be there for them....sex is just a natural progression from feelings of love and security? Going celibate also implies a life lived in coldness tbh, most people need someone to share their lives with, showing physical appreciation isn't such a bad thing.

Interesting point of view, not sure I agree with it completely but I take your points

[Jezzy]

I just don't think who you have sex with is a defining characteristic of who you are, let alone having to stick a label on it. My boyfriend is 18 years younger than me, we have been together 7 years, go figure.

You fall in love with a person rather than their gender, no? It's only constraints from what you are taught to believe by society that makes you question whether or not it is right.

That's my viewpoint - there are a lot more controversial viewpoints out there, but that's why we are all different, and that's why we should all embrace the mixture of souls in this world.

I was baptised a catholic. I am adopted, my roots are Spanish / Arab. My parents brought me up to be a freethinker. There is a lot that should be embraced about religion and religious beliefs. I do not believe Jesus Christ was the son of God. Sons of God belong in the Greek Myths for me. I believe in reincarnation, I believe in different levels of different types of existence. There is not a religion that encompasses my beliefs, yet I am a very religious / spiritual person.

I think all I am trying to say is that the big things in life don't fit neatly into boxes. The media may tell you that they should, but they don't. Tolerance and acceptance, those are my words to live by, no matter how greatly I may disagree.

[daniel-lewis-1985]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

I know people who have married, had children ,then they are gay ,not everyone is born gay

Oh my god how old are you?!

That's not them suddenly turning gay that's them living in denial for years because they don't want to be gay.

Anyway to all those who said he didn't compare gay people to being handicapped then this video of the whole convo will shut you up.

http://www.tmz.com/2014/01/05/evande...#ixzz2pdNBbuPY

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jezzy

I just don't think who you have sex with is a defining characteristic of who you are, let alone having to stick a label on it. My boyfriend is 18 years younger than me, we have been together 7 years, go figure.

You fall in love with a person rather than their gender, no? It's only constraints from what you are taught to believe by society that makes you question whether or not it is right.

That's my viewpoint - there are a lot more controversial viewpoints out there, but that's why we are all different, and that's why we should all embrace the mixture of souls in this world.

I was baptised a catholic. I am adopted, my roots are Spanish / Arab. My parents brought me up to be a freethinker. There is a lot that should be embraced about religion and religious beliefs. I do not believe Jesus Christ was the son of God. Sons of God belong in the Greek Myths for me. I believe in reincarnation, I believe in different levels of different types of existence. There is not a religion that encompasses my beliefs, yet I am a very religious / spiritual person.

I think all I am trying to say is that the big things in life don't fit neatly into boxes. The media may tell you that they should, but they don't. Tolerance and acceptance, those are my words to live by, no matter how greatly I may disagree.

hhhmmm I don't know about that, well from my own point of view, sexually I don't think I could ever fall in love in the romantic/sexual sense with a women, the actual act of sex with another woman is a bit repulsive to me, I couldn't imagine ever feeling any different about that, I have never physically found a woman attractive, sure i can appreciate a good looking woman but I've never thought wow I'd love a bit of that or whatever And I do think most people are either attracted to one or the other gender

But again, I do accept your points and that not everyone thinks the same way as I do

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by daniel-lewis-1985

Oh my god how old are you?!

That's not them suddenly turning gay that's them living in denial for years because they don't want to be gay.

Anyway to all those who said he didn't compare gay people to being handicapped then this video of the whole convo will shut you up.

http://www.tmz.com/2014/01/05/evande...#ixzz2pdNBbuPY

Just putting the question out there, Daniel - how can you know for sure that there are not people out there who DO change their minds about their sexuality later in life? Just because you have pretty much always known, doesn't make someone else's experience different.