[arista]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Ok

Spoiler: The cow died


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Thank you the Mod that helped here

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Livia

I sometimes think that meat eaters who don't eat Kosher or Halal have a kind of fairy-tale view of abattoirs, where the animals are given some kind of pre-med before they're dispatched off to heaven in a sleepy way. Abattoirs are awful, frightening places full of despair and terror. All animal slaughter is upsetting, but because Kosher and Halal are to do with religion, it's got to be worse, right?

Maybe we should be concentratinig more on demanding that the animal, which is being reared for meat and nothing else, has a natural, quality life while it's alive?

why are we still eating animals? where's my soylent green?

living in the future is so disappointing.

[Me. I Am Salman]

Well there's conflicting opinion, some argue kosher and halal methods are in fact humane as a swift incision is made and the blood is drained causing quick death. There are studies that western methods may actually cause more pain. I mean shooting a bolt to the head of a sheep hardly shows you to be compassionate

The meat is also far more clean, and it's a method that's been practiced for a long long time. So how about you focus on other things like battery farming where there's pretty much a general consensus that it's inhumane, rather that attempt to alienate minorities even more than they already are. And lbr that's the only reason why this thread was created, LeatherTrumpet seems to be obsessed with pissing off people with religious beliefs

[Kazanne]

I don't eat meat but don't condone people who do,I just hate the way we cant be trusted to treat these animals well while they are alive and at least make their demise as painless as possible,abbattoirs are disgusting places where rules are flaunted ,animals teased and beaten and in the main they get away with it,If people had to kill their own meat or visited an abattoir there would be more veggies I think.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Salman!

Well there's conflicting opinion, some argue kosher and halal methods are in fact humane as a swift incision is made and the blood is drained causing quick death. There are studies that western methods may actually cause more pain. I mean shooting a bolt to the head of a sheep hardly shows you to be compassionate

The meat is also far more clean, and it's a method that's been practiced for a long long time. So how about you focus on other things like battery farming where there's pretty much a general consensus that it's inhumane, rather that attempt to alienate minorities even more than they already are. And lbr that's the only reason why this thread was created, LeatherTrumpet seems to be obsessed with pissing off people with religious beliefs

Do you really think a bunch of people 1000 years ago living in a desert are any kind of authority on anything? least of all how to prepare meat?

Didn't they also used to marry 12 y/o girls to their much older cousins and uncles back then? Let's try to put things in perspective...

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Salman!

Well there's conflicting opinion, some argue kosher and halal methods are in fact humane as a swift incision is made and the blood is drained causing quick death. There are studies that western methods may actually cause more pain. I mean shooting a bolt to the head of a sheep hardly shows you to be compassionate

The meat is also far more clean, and it's a method that's been practiced for a long long time. So how about you focus on other things like battery farming where there's pretty much a general consensus that it's inhumane, rather that attempt to alienate minorities even more than they already are. And lbr that's the only reason why this thread was created, LeatherTrumpet seems to be obsessed with pissing off people with religious beliefs

Thinking about this salman you could well be right,although I don't like to think of an animal having it's throat cut,maybe it is more humane than our abattoirs where the animals are cramped together can see others getting killed and are terrified,never thought I would come to that conclusion so thanks.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

I sometimes think that meat eaters who don't eat Kosher or Halal have a kind of fairy-tale view of abattoirs, where the animals are given some kind of pre-med before they're dispatched off to heaven in a sleepy way. Abattoirs are awful, frightening places full of despair and terror. All animal slaughter is upsetting, but because Kosher and Halal are to do with religion, it's got to be worse, right?

Maybe we should be concentratinig more on demanding that the animal, which is being reared for meat and nothing else, has a natural, quality life while it's alive?

I agree with this, I don't think any meat eaters really have a leg to stand on complaining about this type of thing

[Me. I Am Salman]

Originally Posted by lostalex

do you really think a bunch of people 1000 years ago living in a desert are any kind of authority on anything? didn't they also used to marry 12 y/o girls to their much older cousins back then? let's try to put things in perspective...

You know that's a stupid comparison, and there are people with 'authority' now that condone halal/kosher slaughtering

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Salman!

Well there's conflicting opinion, some argue kosher and halal methods are in fact humane as a swift incision is made and the blood is drained causing quick death. There are studies that western methods may actually cause more pain. I mean shooting a bolt to the head of a sheep hardly shows you to be compassionate

The meat is also far more clean, and it's a method that's been practiced for a long long time. So how about you focus on other things like battery farming where there's pretty much a general consensus that it's inhumane, rather that attempt to alienate minorities even more than they already are. And lbr that's the only reason why this thread was created, LeatherTrumpet seems to be obsessed with pissing off people with religious beliefs

It invites debate like your thread about the N word salman.

[Crimson Dynamo]

John Blackwell, head of the British Veterinary Association, said animals should be "stunned" before slaughter.

Mr Blackwell told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that animals should be "stunned at the time of death", which would render them "insensible to pain until death supervenes".

"It's important at the time of death for the animals' welfare not to be compromised," he said, while adding that he "respected the beliefs of religious sects".

'Inflamed prejudice'
He said that sheep could remain conscious for up to seven seconds after having their throat cut, while for cattle it was two minutes.

He said there was "good evidence" that showed that animals could perceive pain at the point of having their throats slit, but he conceded that this research was not conclusive.

Animal rights should come before religious beliefs, he added.



I am wondering who is thinking that sheep and cows dont feel any pain or discomfort by getting their throats slit and humans do...?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26463064

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Salman!

You know that' a stupid comparison

it's not really a stupid comparison, cause they were marrying their cousins... that's a fact... and they were also preparing meat without refrigerators or ovens, or any other kind of modern cooking appliances... so it's not really "stupid" of me to be pointing it out....but it is kinda "stupid" to be taking advice from primitive people from 1000 years ago... people were pretty ****ed up back then, is my point.

[Me. I Am Salman]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Thinking about this salman you could well be right,although I don't like to think of an animal having it's throat cut,maybe it is more humane than our abattoirs where the animals are cramped together can see others getting killed and are terrified,never thought I would come to that conclusion so thanks.

It's ok the answer is not always black and white and there's loads of conflicting ideas, so why don't we just combat the things that everyone agrees to be cruel

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

John Blackwell, head of the British Veterinary Association, said animals should be "stunned" before slaughter.

Mr Blackwell told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that animals should be "stunned at the time of death", which would render them "insensible to pain until death supervenes".

"It's important at the time of death for the animals' welfare not to be compromised," he said, while adding that he "respected the beliefs of religious sects".

'Inflamed prejudice'
He said that sheep could remain conscious for up to seven seconds after having their throat cut, while for cattle it was two minutes.

He said there was "good evidence" that showed that animals could perceive pain at the point of having their throats slit, but he conceded that this research was not conclusive.

Animal rights should come before religious beliefs, he added.



I am wondering who is thinking that sheep and cows dont feel any pain or discomfort by getting their throats slit and humans do...?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26463064

There's the thing though LT,it's all well and good these laws been made,but people cannot be trusted to carry them out that's where I confict with abattoirs and halal.

[Me. I Am Salman]

Originally Posted by lostalex

it's not really a stupid comparison, cause they were marrying their cousins... that's a fact... and they were also preparing meat without refrigerators or ovens, or any other kind of modern cooking appliances... so it's not really "stupid" of me to be pointing it out....but it is kinda "stupid" to be taking advice from primitive people from 1000 years ago...

No person nowadays accepts marrying at 12/with cousins because of increased knowledge of human nature but studies and research suggest the kosher/halal practice is fine so yes it is a stupid comparison. If it was so primitive it would have died out long ago which is my point

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Salman!

No person nowadays accepts marrying at 12/with cousins because of increased knowledge of human nature but studies and research suggest the kosher/halal practice is fine so yes it is a stupid comparison. If it was so primitive it would have died out long ago which is my point

you haven't traveled much i see...

[lostalex]

are you religious Salman!?

Originally Posted by Salman!

No person nowadays accepts marrying at 12/with cousins because of increased knowledge of human nature but studies and research suggest the kosher/halal practice is fine so yes it is a stupid comparison. If it was so primitive it would have died out long ago which is my point

I dated a nurse, and part of her training was to work with Muslim families who have disabilities through inbreeding. This was in Birmingham - the 2nd city of England, not some far flung country living in the past. It is still a massive problem today.

[Me. I Am Salman]

Originally Posted by Livia

I sometimes think that meat eaters who don't eat Kosher or Halal have a kind of fairy-tale view of abattoirs, where the animals are given some kind of pre-med before they're dispatched off to heaven in a sleepy way. Abattoirs are awful, frightening places full of despair and terror. All animal slaughter is upsetting, but because Kosher and Halal are to do with religion, it's got to be worse, right?

Maybe we should be concentratinig more on demanding that the animal, which is being reared for meat and nothing else, has a natural, quality life while it's alive?

Exactly. I see none of that when I go to Bangladesh, families usually rear and slaughter the animals themselves. So how about people in western society stop trying to take some moral or ethical high-ground when it comes to animal welfare

[Me. I Am Salman]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

I dated a nurse, and part of her training was to work with Muslim families who have disabilities through inbreeding. This was in Birmingham - the 2nd city of England, not some far flung country living in the past. It is still a massive problem today.

Yes because these people are thick and uneducated and don't know its dangers. It's more of a cultural problem anyway

Originally Posted by Salman!

Yes because these people are thick and uneducated and don't know its dangers

I wasn't having a go, I was just providing some information. It was mainly fathers impregnating their own children, as opposed to cousins, but it's still a big issue within Muslim communities. Birmingham has a massive Muslim population so there is more of a chance for these practices to be carried on.

[lostalex]

lol, wait, so are you saying that people who adhere to archaic religious traditions are thick? i'm confused by you salman.
/?
cause that's what i was saying, and then you acted outraged, and now you are saying what exactly?

[Me. I Am Salman]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

I wasn't having a go, I was just providing some information. It was mainly fathers impregnating their own children, as opposed to cousins, but it's still a big issue within Muslim communities. Birmingham has a massive Muslim population so there is more of a chance for these practices to be carried on.

No I know you werent lol. But yeah it's more of a cultural problem as it's prominent in South asian communities

[Kizzy]

Are we still talking about meat?....

[Vicky.]

Tbh I dont know much about different ways of killing for meat. But I think it should always be done in the most humane (hard given the circumstances though..) and (more importantly) quickest way.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

John Blackwell, head of the British Veterinary Association, said animals should be "stunned" before slaughter.

Mr Blackwell told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that animals should be "stunned at the time of death", which would render them "insensible to pain until death supervenes".

"It's important at the time of death for the animals' welfare not to be compromised," he said, while adding that he "respected the beliefs of religious sects".

'Inflamed prejudice'
He said that sheep could remain conscious for up to seven seconds after having their throat cut, while for cattle it was two minutes.

He said there was "good evidence" that showed that animals could perceive pain at the point of having their throats slit, but he conceded that this research was not conclusive.

Animal rights should come before religious beliefs, he added.



I am wondering who is thinking that sheep and cows dont feel any pain or discomfort by getting their throats slit and humans do...?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26463064

Chickens that live their lives in tiny cages without being able to stand up properly so people can buy cheap eggs... Pigs kept in pens too small for them to even turn around and are bred continually so people can have cheap pork... calves taken from their mother as soon as they're born and kept in the dark for their short miserable life so that people can pay through the nose for veal... all cruel. Did the veterinary surgeon who seems so concerned with religious rites have an opinion an any of that stuff, do you think?