[Livia]

Originally Posted by CaudleHalbard

The people I feel sorry for are the residents and businesses of PDL.

Having followed this case closely over the years, including reading Amaral's book and all the information freely available online, I'm afraid "poor Kate and Gerry" do not get an ounce of sympathy from me.

The only reason they keep this in the public eye is because they know the huge amount of suspicion that still hangs over them. It would not surprise me if they are happy for the body to be found - at long last - now that any forensic evidence of, for example, sedatives or even sexual abuse will be long gone.

It always amuses me that people with no legal training consider that they have "followed this case closely" by reading stuff on the Internet. Information gained from reading stuff on online is always questionable. You don't know more than the lawyers and police by reading stuff on the Internet.

The reason anyone keeps a story alive in the press is so that the public remember. Ben Needham's mother turns up in the press from time to time even now, is that a sign of her guilt? No.

If they found a body, there would be a surprising amount of forensic evidence that they can gather from it.

The way the McCanns are discussed is appalling. No one has one tangible shred of evidence that they had anything to do with their daughter's disappearance or, believe me, they would be in custody right now.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Livia

It always amuses me that people with no legal training consider that they have "followed this case closely" by reading stuff on the Internet. Information gained from reading stuff on online is always questionable. You don't know more than the lawyers and police by reading stuff on the Internet.

The reason anyone keeps a story alive in the press is so that the public remember. Ben Needham's mother turns up in the press from time to time even now, is that a sign of her guilt? No.

If they found a body, there would be a surprising about of forensic evidence that can gather from it.

The way the McCanns are discussed is appalling. No one has one tangible shred of evidence that they had anything to do with their daughter's disappearance or, believe me, they would be in custody right now.

-stands up and applauds-

[Vicky.]

There could be evidence, just not enough to secure a conviction. IMO the parents are quite lucky that it happened in Portugal where the dogs aren't good enough to be used as primary evidence..given that someone has just been done in our country despite no body and basically nothing but what the dogs found.

Also its quite interesting that generally the people who think the parents are totally innocent tend to have not read very much into the case. I'm not talking conspiracy websites, I mean the 13k pages of police files that are there for everyone to see. The same police files that SY have been scouring for years...and that lead them to this dig.

There may be no evidence as such of the parents involvement. But there is also no evidence of an abduction.

It seems our police are working along the same lines now as the original investigation was. Honestly..they are looking for a body (or evidence that a body was there) right next to the hotel. What kind of burglar (lets forget that the burglar took nothing 'valuable'..) accidentally or purposely kills a child, decides to take the body, wanders around PDL with her, then buries her right next to where he killed her. It just makes NO sense at all. Lets forget again that this burglar/abductor left no traces of dna/fingerprints/anything while carrying out this amazing stunt.

I don't actually understand how people can't find this strange?

[Niamh.]

Yep, if she was abducted like the McCanns have been claiming or if she was accidentally killed during a burglary why on earth would either the burglers or the kidnappers decide to bury her there, makes no sense. You don't need a law degree to think that *maybe* the police are working off the theory that it was neither of the two

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

There could be evidence, just not enough to secure a conviction. IMO the parents are quite lucky that it happened in Portugal where the dogs aren't good enough to be used as primary evidence..given that someone has just been done in our country despite no body and basically nothing but what the dogs found.

Also its quite interesting that generally the people who think the parents are totally innocent tend to have not read very much into the case. I'm not talking conspiracy websites, I mean the 13k pages of police files that are there for everyone to see. The same police files that SY have been scouring for years...and that lead them to this dig.

There may be no evidence as such of the parents involvement. But there is also no evidence of an abduction.

It seems our police are working along the same lines now as the original investigation was. Honestly..they are looking for a body (or evidence that a body was there) right next to the hotel. What kind of burglar (lets forget that the burglar took nothing 'valuable'..) accidentally or purposely kills a child, decides to take the body, wanders around PDL with her, then buries her right next to where he killed her. It just makes NO sense at all. Lets forget again that this burglar/abductor left no traces of dna/fingerprints/anything while carrying out this amazing stunt.

I don't actually understand how people can't find this strange?

The parents are lucky it happened in Portugal? Lucky?

I'd be interested to know how you reached your conclusion that, if evidence is found, there won't be enough to convict. That's an amazing piece of foresight that even police and lawyers don't even possess. And it's the kind of wild claim I read in this thread on a regular basis.

The parents are innocent until they are proven guilty. That's the rule. So I'm astounded that there's so much opposition to another search. Surely anything that could throw some light on what happened should be encouraged? But no... everyone on here knows much better it seems than the people involved in the case. Maybe TiBB should send a team out?

Removing something or someone from a premises without leaving fingerprints or DNA isn't a spectacular trick. It shows someone was careful, that is all.

The fact is that there is a section of this forum, and of the public, who think they know all about the case, more than the police and lawyers involved even. And you just don't. You can't pretend that you've read 13,000 pages of police files nor what evidence they may point to, nor even how to interpret the evidence that exists. You've read snippets, and a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. The fact that people think they know more than the police, and this is a massive comspiricy to cover up for the McCanns, is a mixture of sad and hilarious.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yep, if she was abducted like the McCanns have been claiming or if she was accidentally killed during a burglary why on earth would either the burglers or the kidnappers decide to bury her there, makes no sense. You don't need a law degree to think that *maybe* the police are working off the theory that it was neither of the two

Maybe theyre not looking for a body. Maybe they're looking for something else. I don't know... and I'm not guessing.

[Kizzy]

I think questioning and examining information is good, nobody here has claimed to be a legal expert or one in forensic pathology for that matter...
That doesn't exclude them from putting forward their considered opinion, and to me it seems the lines that were drawn when maddie went missing are blurring, so who knows what will surface and what conspiracies will be shown to have more than a grain of truth.

[Vanessa]

I can't believe after all this time we still have no idea what happened. Looks like the initial investigation was seriously flawed. But i do hope she's found alive and well.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Livia

The parents are lucky it happened in Portugal? Lucky?

I'd be interested to know how you reached your conclusion that, if evidence is found, there won't be enough to convict. That's an amazing piece of foresight that even police and lawyers don't even possess. And it's the kind of wild claim I read in this thread on a regular basis.

The parents are innocent until they are proven guilty. That's the rule. So I'm astounded that there's so much opposition to another search. Surely anything that could throw some light on what happened should be encouraged? But no... everyone on here knows much better it seems than the people involved in the case. Maybe TiBB should send a team out?

Removing something or someone from a premises without leaving fingerprints or DNA isn't a spectacular trick. It shows someone was careful, that is all.

The fact is that there is a section of this forum, and of the public, who think they know all about the case, more than the police and lawyers involved even. And you just don't. You can't pretend that you've read 13,000 pages of police files nor what evidence they may point to, nor even how to interpret the evidence that exists. You've read snippets, and a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. The fact that people think they know more than the police, and this is a massive comspiricy to cover up for the McCanns, is a mixture of sad and hilarious.

I didn't say that? I said there could be evidence now but not enough to convict. If a body/dna/pink blanket/tennis bag etc is found where they are searching then it would be definite evidence tbh

And yes, the parents are lucky...as if dogs are enough to put someone away in OUR system (as has been proven recently) then if Madeleine had disappeared here..the dogs would again be enough evidence to convict? Even if they did have nothing to do with it..

I haven't read all 13k files no, but I have read a good few thousand pages over the years. Some might consider that an obsession..but I have a lot of spare time while I cant sleep on a night.

Oddly enough, before reading the police files (the statements are the most interesting by far IMO) I used to think the same as you...how could anyone think they were involved etc etc.

Also I don't understand how you have come to the conclusion that there is opposition to another search? I welcome this search, completely. I just think that they are looking for a body (or evidence of a body being there.. so the police have said in interviews with the news...) so close, that it rules out any random bogeymen that have got the blame thus far. The only other option besides the parents having something to do with it, is that someone purposely set out to murder her that night and bury her close..and that has never been mentioned yet

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

There could be evidence, just not enough to secure a conviction. IMO the parents are quite lucky that it happened in Portugal where the dogs aren't good enough to be used as primary evidence..given that someone has just been done in our country despite no body and basically nothing but what the dogs found.

Also its quite interesting that generally the people who think the parents are totally innocent tend to have not read very much into the case. I'm not talking conspiracy websites, I mean the 13k pages of police files that are there for everyone to see. The same police files that SY have been scouring for years...and that lead them to this dig.

There may be no evidence as such of the parents involvement. But there is also no evidence of an abduction.

It seems our police are working along the same lines now as the original investigation was. Honestly..they are looking for a body (or evidence that a body was there) right next to the hotel. What kind of burglar (lets forget that the burglar took nothing 'valuable'..) accidentally or purposely kills a child, decides to take the body, wanders around PDL with her, then buries her right next to where he killed her. It just makes NO sense at all. Lets forget again that this burglar/abductor left no traces of dna/fingerprints/anything while carrying out this amazing stunt.

I don't actually understand how people can't find this strange?

This is one the strangest cases of all time.

I have been all over the place in my thinking,like masses of other people, on this case,so much so I have in the main for the present stopped commenting on it usually, although still following it when it is again and again brought back into the public arena.

Where do I now lean as to it, I was more persuaded,especially here on tibb, a fair while ago with Chuffmedizzy's take overall on this case.

All I want to say now is the post above is a really good one,which covers a fair bit of what did and didn't maybe occur.
Some really strong points in the quoted post above from Vicky.

It does seem whenever this case returns to the public arena, the end result usually is, even more questions raised rather than any real answers ever found.
Will this time be any different, I doubt it actually.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

I can't believe after all this time we still have no idea what happened. Looks like the initial investigation was seriously flawed. But i do hope she's found alive and well.

No due to the Media
she will not found
and is sadly dead

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by arista

No due to the Media
she will not found
and is sadly dead

It doesn't look good, but i haven't lost all hope.

[Nedusa]

Having read some of the evidence contained in the police files and pretty much all the reports and comment around this case I am like a lot of people puzzled by the many contradictions and unanswered questions.

I am also confused as to why if the McCann family did have more to hide than has been reported in the official story, why oh why would they want to keep this story in the headlines. Surely they would want the story to quietly fade out of the public consciousness not instead have it blazoned across the Tabloids every couple of Months or so.

But then if they or any of their friends were not involved and it was truly a stranger that abducted her why is there no evidence to at least prove that a third party was involved.

All the police investigations involving the Portuguese and British police forces and the independent private investigations, all have turned up no killer evidence and 7 years on we are no further forward.

So I don't know what to think, just that something is NOT right with this case, something has been missed, overlooked or deliberately witheld.

It would be good if some new evidence could at least push the investigation down one avenue and end all the suspicion and conspiracy surrounding the events of that fateful night.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

They'll get no sympathy here sadly. They were wrong to leave the kids... and it seems people want them to suffer the agony of that mistake for the rest of their lives. They should have left Madeleine in a boiling hot car with the windows closed and let her die a slow agonising death from heatstroke and dehydration, they may have got a little sympathy then.

Who's said that?

Pointing out they were at major fault for leaving their children even after they were aware Madeleine was scared and left along to cry herself to sleep and couldn't find them doesn't mean I want them to spend the rest of their lives suffering.

It was a piece of information most of us only found out during the crime watch reconstruction and when most members bring it up it's in response to the "it could happen to anyone" excuse.

There is no excuse, they left their children along, with doors unlocked and goodness knows how many obvious dodgy signs so they could go and have a night wining and dining.

I feel terribly sorry for them and I hope they do get closure one way or the other so they can move forward with their lives, I wouldn't wish this kind of torment on my worst enemy but the actual mistakes they made were not accidental IMO, it was neglectful.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Who's said that?

Pointing out they were at major fault for leaving their children even after they were aware Madeleine was scared and left along to cry herself to sleep and couldn't find them doesn't mean I want them to spend the rest of their lives suffering.

It was a piece of information most of us only found out during the crime watch reconstruction and when most members bring it up it's in response to the "it could happen to anyone" excuse.

There is no excuse, they left their children along, with doors unlocked and goodness knows how many obvious dodgy signs so they could go and have a night wining and dining.

I feel terribly sorry for them and I hope they do get closure one way or the other so they can move forward with their lives, I wouldn't wish this kind of torment on my worst enemy but the actual mistakes they made were not accidental IMO, it was neglectful.

No one said that, that's why I started my sentence with "it seems...". And I wasn't specifically addressing your own posts.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

No one said that, that's why I started my sentence with "it seems...". And I wasn't specifically addressing your own posts.

I never said you were. I was addressing your generalisation with one of my own.

[Cherie]

Vicky are you referring to the April Jones case? Fragments of bone from her skull were found in the woodburner so there was some physical evidence found by the dogs if that is the case you mean

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Vicky are you referring to the April Jones case? Fragments of bone from her skull were found in the woodburner so there was some physical evidence found by the dogs if that is the case you mean

No, a very recent one that I saw on the news like 2 nights ago. Cadaver scent in some guys basement and his van but no body or anything found.

Edit. Infact I think it was the most recent crimewatch that I saw it on I only remember it because such a fuss was made over the no physical evidence part of it.

Edit again. It was on crimewatch... http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b046...t-david-gilroy this guy I think it was. WIll have to rewatch it now as there is no mention of dogs in that story and I specifically remember them saying the dogs was the main evidence so it might be the wrong one

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I never said you were. I was addressing your generalisation with one of my own.

You asked "Who said that?"

No one said that.

Discussion is one thing; thinking you know all about the case because you've read about it online is quite another.

Anyhoo, I've really said all I had to say in my previous posts.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

You asked "Who said that?"

No one said that.

Discussion is one thing; thinking you know all about the case because you've read about it online is quite another.

Anyhoo, I've really said all I had to say in my previous posts.

When I posted that I meant what are people posting/saying that is giving you that impression. You were obviously referring to the opinions posted "here". I was merely querying whereabouts you have gotten that impression that people here think they should suffer for the rest of their lives for their mistake.

The "knowing all about a case you've read online" came up in another post and wasn't what I was referring to.

[Z]

If her body was buried where they're searching then surely by now, 7 years later, there will be nothing but bones left for them to find? At which point it'll surely be impossible to determine a cause of death? The whole bloody thing is just flawed from start to finish.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

There could be evidence, just not enough to secure a conviction. IMO the parents are quite lucky that it happened in Portugal where the dogs aren't good enough to be used as primary evidence..given that someone has just been done in our country despite no body and basically nothing but what the dogs found.

Also its quite interesting that generally the people who think the parents are totally innocent tend to have not read very much into the case. I'm not talking conspiracy websites, I mean the 13k pages of police files that are there for everyone to see. The same police files that SY have been scouring for years...and that lead them to this dig.

There may be no evidence as such of the parents involvement. But there is also no evidence of an abduction.

It seems our police are working along the same lines now as the original investigation was. Honestly..they are looking for a body (or evidence that a body was there) right next to the hotel. What kind of burglar (lets forget that the burglar took nothing 'valuable'..) accidentally or purposely kills a child, decides to take the body, wanders around PDL with her, then buries her right next to where he killed her. It just makes NO sense at all. Lets forget again that this burglar/abductor left no traces of dna/fingerprints/anything while carrying out this amazing stunt.

I don't actually understand how people can't find this strange?

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

No, a very recent one that I saw on the news like 2 nights ago. Cadaver scent in some guys basement and his van but no body or anything found.

Edit. Infact I think it was the most recent crimewatch that I saw it on I only remember it because such a fuss was made over the no physical evidence part of it.

Edit again. It was on crimewatch... http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b046...t-david-gilroy this guy I think it was. WIll have to rewatch it now as there is no mention of dogs in that story and I specifically remember them saying the dogs was the main evidence so it might be the wrong one

Yes it was the Gilroy case, no body, but charged with murder on dog evidence

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Z

If her body was buried where they're searching then surely by now, 7 years later, there will be nothing but bones left for them to find? At which point it'll surely be impossible to determine a cause of death? The whole bloody thing is just flawed from start to finish.

At least they'll have found her and be able to put all this "hope she's alive" stuff to bed.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

It always amuses me that people with no legal training consider that they have "followed this case closely" by reading stuff on the Internet. Information gained from reading stuff on online is always questionable. You don't know more than the lawyers and police by reading stuff on the Internet.

The reason anyone keeps a story alive in the press is so that the public remember. Ben Needham's mother turns up in the press from time to time even now, is that a sign of her guilt? No.

If they found a body, there would be a surprising amount of forensic evidence that they can gather from it.

The way the McCanns are discussed is appalling. No one has one tangible shred of evidence that they had anything to do with their daughter's disappearance or, believe me, they would be in custody right now.

Police files are available for all to read, i suggest you do that because you truly do not know what you are talking about