[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kyle

Course I've never served and it's plainly obvious I haven't. Just as I can tell you that I'm damn sure a pacifist in JoeySteele hasn't served, a super liberal Kizzy hasn't served, a student or former student MTVN hasn't served and an anti-war activist in Josh hasn't served. And yes, I know you haven't served either although I knew about your military ties. Now if a ****** like me with less posts per day can work that out from what people's say on here then I'm damn sure someone with the brains you have can.

I'm sorry Kyle, you really have overestimated your impact. I know nothing about you. I don't know how old you are, what you do for a living or what you've done previously. Although it's fair to say I've learned quite a bit about you today.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Livia

I think you would have to ask the military. Would our soldiers be willing to do away with hundreds of years of history and merge into an international force? No, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't. And anyway, the UN already has an international peace keeping force. Furthermore, I'm not willing to hand over my national security to a foreign power. What next? The security services? MI5? MI6?

Britain is currently leading the way (along with the USA) against the ebola outbreak committing hundreds - and eventually thousands - of troops. Our European "brethren" haven't stepped up to the plate at all. If this was ever to be seriously considered the first people who should be consulted is the military. This, like everything else to do with the military, cannot be worked out by civilians

At the risk of appearing as your personal ass-licker, I once again agree with you. I think there are too many insurmountable administrative obstacles for this idea to work.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Kyle

Course I've never served and it's plainly obvious I haven't. Just as I can tell you that I'm damn sure a pacifist in JoeySteele hasn't served, a super liberal Kizzy hasn't served, a student or former student MTVN hasn't served and an anti-war activist in Josh hasn't served. And yes, I know you haven't served either although I knew about your military ties. Now if a ****** like me with less posts per day can work that out from what people's say on here then I'm damn sure someone with the brains you have can.

Hey, I'm not superliberal, just super.
Many members of my family have served too not me personally but this online soapbox is a great platform to discuss whether we are better together from a civilian perspective.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Livia

I'm sorry Kyle, you really have overestimated your impact. I know nothing about you. I don't know how old you are, what you do for a living or what you've done previously. Although it's fair to say I've learned a fair bit about you today.

I haven't overestimated anything chief. I have never claimed any form of popularity on here (though my most loved scores have been quite impressive for a nobody) but what I do you see is take in the general ethos of people by what they say and contribute to the forum and that's how we get to know people. If you want to try and offend me by saying you don't take notice of anything I say then good luck cos it's water off a ducks back.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kyle

Nope. We are talking about a United European standing army, not a coalition of individual nations and their own forces. NATO can still exist outwith the European countries who would become a singular entity.

No we do not get on in Europe


Never Happen

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Would be too difficult in practice, nations would all be pulling in different directions and be more or less inclined to commit their forces depending on the particular scenario. Europe has a lot in common and can achieve a lot working together but let's not fool ourselves into thinking we're some monolithic entity who's interests are always going to be the same. Foreign policy is perhaps the biggest area of government in which there would be most disagreement, so much so that any EU military force would probably be rendered impotent through its inability to reach a consensus on anything.

Yes, I agree here.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

I'm skeptical because I don't know how this would work. Armies could always work together I guess, so I don't see any need tbh. I'm anti-war anyway, so it doesn't make a difference to me.

In all truth Josh as you say armies do work together anyway,they did in the 2nd World war and in some other conflicts since,I see no reason to not explore something like this.
Anything that makes Europe look stronger together,especially as to defence and in these times of so much terrorist issues too, can only,in my view anyway, be a positive thing overall.

[Northern Monkey]

I would'nt wanna put all our eggs in one basket.Abit like having a joint account in a relationship,I don't put all my money in there,Just donate a proportion of it.I would be up for that but not the dismantling of the British military,Never would i think that would be a good idea.Might not be an option if we leave the EU anyway.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kyle

And my father is ex Royal Signals if you want to go down that road.

And i think I get the gist of what your saying when your very first post on here is essentially 'it's a military matter, civilians can't say' and now you are asking if anyone currently on this thread is military despite knowing full well they aren't or haven't been.

My Father is an ex serviceman as are my 3 older Brothers, 3 for the RAF and one for the Army.
I haven't served in the forces obviously but I asked all 4 of them today how they felt as to this and all were in favour of it if it was organised right.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

My Father is an ex serviceman as are my 3 older Brothers, 3 for the RAF and one for the Army.
I haven't served in the forces obviously but I asked all 4 of them today how they felt as to this and all were in favour of it if it was organised right.

That's interesting Joey... I didn't know your brothers were in the military. I spoke to my father earlier - he's ex-Parachute Regiment - and the colour drained out of his face before he said he would be totally against it.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

My Father is an ex serviceman as are my 3 older Brothers, 3 for the RAF and one for the Army.
I haven't served in the forces obviously but I asked all 4 of them today how they felt as to this and all were in favour of it if it was organised right.

That was good of you to ask for their opinion. What sort of things were they saying?

For what it's worth I haven't spoke to my Dad since this topic's inception but if I know him like I think I do I think he would be dead against it. He's pretty euro-sceptic and doesn't think highly of foreign regiments he worked with. His opinion of the Americans especially is hilarious

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kyle

That was good of you to ask for their opinion. What sort of things were they saying?

For what it's worth I haven't spoke to my Dad since this topic's inception but if I know him like I think I do I think he would be dead against it. He's pretty euro-sceptic and doesn't think highly of foreign regiments he worked with. His opinion of the Americans especially is hilarious

That is interesting Kyle.

I refused to go down the pits or in the Army like my father, grandfather, 4 uncles and 4 brothers did. Some are passed and I haven't consulted those still here, but I know that all their thoughts would pretty much tie in with your dad's.

I think your suggestion would be a brilliant reality if it could be made to work but I don't really know how that could be achieved. I do also have the same concerns as Livia about potentially placing our security in the hands of foreign powers.

[MTVN]

My old man is ex navy and I can say with some certainty that he would be completely against it

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

That's interesting Joey... I didn't know your brothers were in the military. I spoke to my father earlier - he's ex-Parachute Regiment - and the colour drained out of his face before he said he would be totally against it.

Well, 3 of them jokingly,(I think), said that if this Govt. cuts defence much more we will need someone elses army for ourselves in any event.

They just feel the World has changed and the stronger the ties the less likely a break or major threat could come as to the defence of Europe and the West particularly.

On the other side of things too,which is a factor as to my stance on this Livia,(I equally respect your view and position on it too from your perspective), I and my Family are extremely pro Europe and the EU, believing in a strong union with same.
So as to defence,for us it seems a likely more logical step to look at and at least explore.

In most matters of conflict or action now we already try to harness European support for that and encourage their involvement in it too, so for me anyway, for one, this would just seem a more progressive cooperative step to take.
It does however seem I and and my Family hold a minority view as to this according to the small poll result at present.

I have to say to Kyle good question again, however it is always interesting learning others take on things like this.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Well, 3 of them jokingly,(I think), said that if this Govt. cuts defence much more we will need someone elses army for ourselves in any event.

They just feel the World has changed and the stronger the ties the less likely a break or major threat could come as to the defence of Europe and the West particularly.

On the other side of things too,which is a factor as to my stance on this Livia,(I equally respect your view and position on it too from your perspective), I and my Family are extremely pro Europe and the EU, believing in a strong union with same.
So as to defence,for us it seems a likely more logical step to look at and at least explore.

In most matters of conflict or action now we already try to harness European support for that and encourage their involvement in it too, so for me anyway, for one, this would just seem a more progressive cooperative step to take.
It does however seem I and and my Family hold a minority view as to this according to the small poll result at present.

I have to say to Kyle good question again, however it is always interesting learning others take on things like this.

We differ on many things you and I, but it's always a pleasure. Always.

[Anaesthesia]

Originally Posted by Kyle

And my father is ex Royal Signals if you want to go down that road.

I'm an ex-sig too. Worked in rebro. I wouldn't support it in a million years.

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Kyle

And also Livia, I love your passion can I marry you?

back the **** off, she is married to me!!!!

[lostalex]

Absolutely.

It's about time Europe started pulling it's weight around the world instead of relying on America. It's been long enough since the second war. Europe needs to shape up. If Europe doesn't start standing up as a major power, Russia and China will and are.

In the Future a strong united Europe will be necessary.

We have fought too long, and too hard to let the BRICs grab a foothold now.

[MTVN]

I've decided this is necessary actually pending the invasion of America we will have to carry out in a few years, they're getting out of hand atm

Russia will be invited to join as our fellow Europeans of course

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I've decided this is necessary actually pending the invasion of America we will have to carry out in a few years, they're getting out of hand atm

Russia will be invited to join as our fellow Europeans of course

Why not China too then? anyone who's ever looked at a map knows how silly the idea of europe and asia being separate continents is anyway.

[MTVN]

Nah only democratic leaders like Mr Putin are permitted

[bots]

Originally Posted by Livia

I think you would have to ask the military. Would our soldiers be willing to do away with hundreds of years of history and merge into an international force? No, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't. And anyway, the UN already has an international peace keeping force. Furthermore, I'm not willing to hand over my national security to a foreign power. What next? The security services? MI5? MI6?

Britain is currently leading the way (along with the USA) against the ebola outbreak committing hundreds - and eventually thousands - of troops. Our European "brethren" haven't stepped up to the plate at all. If this was ever to be seriously considered the first people who should be consulted is the military. This, like everything else to do with the military, cannot be worked out by civilians

Have to largely agree with this. Having some experience in the general arena, a european defense force is just too impractical. It may be something that can be worked toward as/if european integration continues, but I don't see the UK ceding to europe for defence for a long long time.

Nato was designed to provide some collective defense and its worked effectively until now. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Have to largely agree with this. Having some experience in the general arena, a european defense force is just too impractical. It may be something that can be worked toward as/if european integration continues, but I don't see the UK ceding to europe for defence for a long long time.

Nato was designed to provide some collective defense and its worked effectively until now. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

so if you think an EU def3e4nce force is impraticcal, what is thje alternative? just relying on the US???

wake up!

what happens if the US decides NATO is a waste tomorrow, what would you suggest? i bet you'd be calling for an EU defense/military then.

NATO is making Europe lazy and cheap. time for a wake up caLL. the US should cut funding to NATO until Europe steps up and starts pulling it's OWN weight. The US is being made a fool of by doing all the important stuff for the security of people on the other side of the planet. Europeans clearly think we are idiots. why should they do it when they can just use US to do it.

Europe is making Americans look like stupid fools, they are just using us for their security without having to pay the bill.

It's time for Europe to MAN THE **** UP.

[joeysteele]

Well I am glad you joined Kyle and I in the yes section Lostalex, it was starting to feel a little lonely there.

Seriously however,I do still support this idea and think it would in the long term be a really positive move.

Some really great comments posted as to the question I have to say.

[arista]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I've decided this is necessary actually pending the invasion of America we will have to carry out in a few years, they're getting out of hand atm

Russia will be invited to join as our fellow Europeans of course

So this is now a Joke thread
needed to go on Chat And Games?