[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Nothing of the sort Alex - and we're going down the same 'Avenue Of Silliness' which these threads always lead down, no matter how well meaning they start off.

I could fill 20 pages of thread on here with evidence for - not only Jesus's existence - but that he was the Christ. Evidence not Proof - no one can prove the existence of God no more than anyone can prove God's non existence.

I could fill 20 pages, but I'm not. I cannot do with the hassle of deliberately nonsensical responses and unnecessary ridicule.

there is no need because it has all been done before and no one bought it then

its just the standard stuff that Christian websites churn out to litle avail

like Carm

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I'm - once again - being friendly to you, and merely asking whichever God YOU believe in to bless you.

i believe in none as none exist.

and blessing?

what is that exactly?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

there is no need because it has all been done before and no one bought it then

its just the standard stuff that Christian websites churn out to litle avail

like Carm

What's 'carm'?

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

What's 'carm'?

http://carm.org/

Its an apologists site that churns out the "evidence for god stuff". Its probably the best one

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

there is no need because it has all been done before and no one bought it then

its just the standard stuff that Christian websites churn out to litle avail

like Carm

I'm very, very perplexed if the above is true, why there are over 2.2 billion Christians in the world. and why I've seen hundreds upon hundreds of Christian Churches, Cathedrals, Chapels and, Minsters, where these billions worship their Christian God, but I've yet to see a 'Church of The Holy LeatherTrumpet'.

Why is that, do you think?

[lostalex]

well personally, i prefer the blue elephant with 8 arms to a crusty old white man. It's much more fun.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by lostalex

well personally, i prefer the blue elephant with 8 arms to a crusty old white man. It's much more fun.

Whatever floats your boat Alex - Everyone's entitled to their own preferences and personal beliefs, and I would never, ever, try to convert someone away from those and to mine.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I'm very, very perplexed if the above is true, why there are over 2.2 billion Christians in the world. and why I've seen hundreds upon hundreds of Christian Churches, Cathedrals, Chapels and, Minsters, where these billions worship their Christian God, but I've yet to see a 'Church of The Holy LeatherTrumpet'.

Why is that, do you think?

Well i am not sure how anyone defines a christian for a start and quoting numbers from countries like say Nigeria or some such places is more just an exercise in the lack of education in non first world countries. Just as saying well everyone was a church going christian in the UK in the 1800s

What would your definition of a christian be?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Well i am not sure how anyone defines a christian for a start and quoting numbers from countries like say Nigeria or some such places is more just an exercise in the lack of education in non first world countries. Just as saying well everyone was a church going christian in the UK in the 1800s

What would your definition of a christian be?

Anyone who believes in Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Anyone who believes in Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ.

Jesus, thats a bit loose isnt it.

What is The Christ?

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Jesus, thats a bit loose isnt it.

What is The Christ?

the christ is what jews are still waiting for. god in the form of man who will deliver a new message and free the world from sin. It was promised in the old testament. Christians believe Jesus was the christ, Jews are still waiting for him.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by lostalex

the christ is what jews are still waiting for. god in the form of man who will deliver a new message and free the world from sin. It was promised in the old testament. Christians believe Jesus was the christ, Jews are still waiting for him.

So you have to believe Jesus was real as a bloke or have to believe he had super powers based on a book from the ever reliable middle east?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Jesus, thats a bit loose isnt it.

What is The Christ?

Jesus's name was just 'Jesus' - 'The Christ' means 'anointed one of God' or 'Messiah'.

Islam believes Jesus was a prophet of God, and Christians believe he was The Christ. Judaism disagrees with this.

And now, I have some delicious home made soup and crispy buttered rolls awaiting (thanks to Josy) so I sincerely hope that we three can continue this later - and in the same amicable fashion.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Nothing of the sort Alex - and we're going down the same 'Avenue Of Silliness' which these threads always lead down, no matter how well meaning they start off.

I could fill 20 pages of thread on here with evidence for - not only Jesus's existence - but that he was the Christ. Evidence not Proof - no one can prove the existence of God no more than anyone can prove God's non existence.

I could fill 20 pages, but I'm not. I cannot do with the hassle of deliberately nonsensical responses and unnecessary ridicule.

but a blue elephant with 8 arms did exist. i'm sure some indian in a jungle saw an elephant, the lighting (the way the clouds were, the time of day, we all know that sometimes the sky casts strange lights) made it look blue, and probably forest foliage made it look like it had many arms(tree branches that happened to be arranged in a similar pattern to arms). I'm also sure the man made claims that he felt a strange sense of awe, a supernatural feeling even. And I'm sure the young uneducated man believed what he saw. but he didn't see what he thought he saw.


This is how religions begin. trying to explain weird things. Humans don't do very well trying to explain something they've never seen before, they tend to make **** up. why? because the three hardest words for most people to say is "I don't know". they'd rather make **** up rather than just admit that they are clueless and powerless and small and stupid.

but that's what we really are as humans. we are clueless and powerless and small and stupid.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Jesus's name was just 'Jesus' - 'The Christ' means 'anointed one of God' or 'Messiah'.

Islam believes Jesus was a prophet of God, and Christians believe he was The Christ. Judaism disagrees with this.

And now, I have some delicious home made soup and crispy buttered rolls awaiting (thanks to Josy) so I sincerely hope that we three can continue this later - and in the same amicable fashion.

I would have thought that this god could at least have all his followers following the right god

Its like the whole thing is made up depending on where you live...

[lostalex]

kirk is manipulating things. some people are very manipulative.

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Morning Jules,

I reproduce my answer to LT Jules to save duplication:

It was not a rhetorical question - I genuinely do not know why. I have my own ideas - theory if you will - obviously biased and based upon my faith, but I don't know.

I wanted to discover other viewpoints for the very reason that I wasn't sure.

I would like to think that because she was an atheist and not a religious person (according to her own testimony in articles I have read, and in a documentary which someone on here mentioned) that Christ did actually appear to her.

I am not concerned that the vision she actually saw was an image -- a medieval artists impression -- of the 'Veronica Cloth', because no one can look upon the countenance of God, and if she did 'perceive' a vision of Christ, then her mind would project the image of Christ which she could identify.

Incidentally, the image of Christ - long hair and bearded - on that particular painting, is notable, because it is the sterotypical image that most artists depicted once the image on the Shroud of Turin had become known. Before then, depictions of Christ in art were diverse and generic.

As to the Dead Sea Scrolls, yes, I have always been interested in them, and have a couple of books which I've had for years and have also researched them - as you have Jules.

I have no reason to doubt the scrolls authenticity, or the Copper Scrolls.

Do your ideas on the connection between the Scrolls and Christ come from reading the works of Edmund Wilson Jules?

Hi ya Kirk,

Thank you for replying, I personally would find it hard for Christ to appear to any one person as there must be so many people praying for help. I have no doubt though that she saw part of her higher self.

The Complete Dead Sea Scrolls I am reading are named just that, 7th edition Penguin Classics. I had it downloaded to my Kindle, I havent heard of any specific author but I would guess that you may be questioning E.Wilson?

I am finding it very political and the rules and regulations seem very harsh if one should wander away from the hierarchy goal. What were your thoughts on it all?

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Nothing of the sort Alex - and we're going down the same 'Avenue Of Silliness' which these threads always lead down, no matter how well meaning they start off.

I could fill 20 pages of thread on here with evidence for - not only Jesus's existence - but that he was the Christ. Evidence not Proof - no one can prove the existence of God no more than anyone can prove God's non existence.

I could fill 20 pages, but I'm not. I cannot do with the hassle of deliberately nonsensical responses and unnecessary ridicule.

Hi Kirk,

Can you give the evidence that Jesus was Christ, remember I am not knocking anyones beliefs but like you I am interested in other peoples point of views.

The trouble with reading too many books one tends to get lost in the theories. I have got a lot of thought provoking things through meditation, there was a time when I believed totally in the biblical stories of JC but I outgrew them when I decided to look into different things. I now realise that all things are within, we are our own goal.

An interesting point which please put me right if I am wrong, I learnt bits and pieces of French at school but am not very good....if we take the egoistic I "I am etc." and place it within Jesus between the u and the s, we have Je Suis, now in french this means "I am". Now as je suis belongs to all to me it is saying that all man is capable of thinking for him/herself. JC was a man, he says himself that he was not the son of "God" but his teachings were perhaps to help man, to show him/her a way of equality. We are all answerable for our own "sins" it would be hard for any one person to take on so much.

It is said that the Christ spirit is within us all it is a form of energy which uplifts as your lady in the OP experienced.

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

http://carm.org/

Its an apologists site that churns out the "evidence for god stuff". Its probably the best one

Oh LT I had a look at your link, not impressed at all.........

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Jules2

Hi Kirk,

Can you give the evidence that Jesus was Christ, remember I am not knocking anyones beliefs but like you I am interested in other peoples point of views.

The trouble with reading too many books one tends to get lost in the theories. I have got a lot of thought provoking things through meditation, there was a time when I believed totally in the biblical stories of JC but I outgrew them when I decided to look into different things. I now realise that all things are within, we are our own goal.

An interesting point which please put me right if I am wrong, I learnt bits and pieces of French at school but am not very good....if we take the egoistic I "I am etc." and place it within Jesus between the u and the s, we have Je Suis, now in french this means "I am". Now as je suis belongs to all to me it is saying that all man is capable of thinking for him/herself. JC was a man, he says himself that he was not the son of "God" but his teachings were perhaps to help man, to show him/her a way of equality. We are all answerable for our own "sins" it would be hard for any one person to take on so much.

It is said that the Christ spirit is within us all it is a form of energy which uplifts as your lady in the OP experienced.

I never believed 'totally in the biblical stories of JC Jules or 'totally' in any other Biblical stories per se - I believe in the essence of the bible.

I don't understand your point concerning Jesus though Jules - on the one hand you state that he is not the Son of God, yet you then say that "the Christ spirit is within us all it is a form of energy which uplifts as your lady in the OP experienced."

How can this be?

As for my reasons why I believe Jesus is the Christ - I have formulated this view over many years and have considerable compelling evidence which I believe justifies my view. Sadly - because I love discussion - this forum is not the place to air or discuss this subject though, so I must decline your request Jules.

[Kizzy]

I kind of get it, he might be referring to the soul, that might be connected on a higher level but is only accessible in times of great distress or death?
What we consider Christianity seems to be a mish mash of teachings from zoroastrianism and paganism.

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I kind of get it, he might be referring to the soul, that might be connected on a higher level but is only accessible in times of great distress or death?
What we consider Christianity seems to be a mish mash of teachings from zoroastrianism and paganism.

Yes Kizzy, we are at dfferent levels at certain times. Like attracts like is to a certain extent true, we tend to try and fit in so we work on each level of thought . There are naturally certain things which we wouldnt even want to fit in with but the spirit level, the Christ spirit within, is where peace can be found. I definitely believe that JC was trying to teach this, he was trying to show a way. I guess he woud have been considered a good man of his day but as we know many have different views.

With Christianity I believe that we cannot always put todays understanding with things written in the bible. They are possibly truth but meant in a different way, we therefore have to delve deep.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by lostalex

actually atheism says that we are all small insignificant creatures, How is that arrogant? That's the exact opposite of arrogance or superiority.

Thinking there is a God that loves you and makes you special and gives you special powers by praying to him is arrogant and gives YOU the faLSe sense of superiority,.

Who said believing in God makes us special and gives us powers?

Clearly you don't understand a lot of religions half as much as you pretend.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Who said believing in God makes us special and gives us powers?

Clearly you don't understand a lot of religions half as much as you pretend.

The bible does