[Jules2]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Well written Anniek but you won't get your message through.

Hi Kirk, I think it has been a good debate, I doubt very much that anyone wants to change anyone elses point of view but it is great to hear of others views.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by Jules2

LT if you compare the Scrolls with the bible imo you are correct in your assumption. They seem to consist of punishments things which we would find hard to bear in this day and age. This seems to be where JC came into play, he tried to teach equality. It was all very political, nothing has changed.

To be fair the teachings of Jesus are pretty standard fare and totally unachievable most of the time

love everyone, be nice yada yada


Sorry JC but folks worked out all these things long before your wee book was written

I mean love they neighbour? - in London if you even speak to your neighbour that is a bigger miracle than any JC managed

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by Jules2

Hi Kirk, I think it has been a good debate, I doubt very much that anyone wants to change anyone elses point of view but it is great to hear of others views.

Yes we dont need Kirk bigging up anyone who vaguely agrees with him ad infinitum

[Marsh.]

That's if you take love thy neighbour as literally "the person living next door".

It means everyone we have in our lives.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

That's if you take love thy neighbour as literally "the person living next door".

It means everyone we have in our lives.

yes Morsh I agree its nonsense


It sounds good but in the real world it kind of falls apart


Unless I am in a parallel world?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

yes Morsh I agree its nonsense


It sounds good but in the real world it kind of falls apart


Unless I am in a parallel world?

Nobody said the world is perfect or that it should be. There's nothing wrong with trying to be a better person. The world wouldn't be in quite the state it is if more people gave it some effort.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by lostalex

that you are being promised special powers. I already said that, before... do try to keep up.

(and the fact that millions do it doesn't make it any less dumb) (actually the more people that pray just proves how stupid it really is, because not a single prayer has ever been answered, you would think if there was a God he would've answered one by now)

There are millions of people who would disagree with your claim - me for one. I've had lots of my prayers answered, and sometimes those answers have been prayer specific, or in other words - could not be attributed to 'chance' coincidence' or 'random luck' .

As Marsh said, if you pray for a lottery win you ain't a getting it, but to make a sweeping statement that ' not a single prayer has ever been answered ' is presumptuous and cannot be substantiated by factual evidence -- something which you regard as an imperative when it comes to matters of faith Alex.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Yes we dont need Kirk bigging up anyone who vaguely agrees with him ad infinitum

Hey, Kirk gives credit where it's due - whether it is to someone who has made him laugh because Kirk has a very broad sense of humour, or to someone who has posted an excellent and valid post. I believe that everyone appreciates being appreciated.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

To be fair the teachings of Jesus are pretty standard fare and totally unachievable most of the time

love everyone, be nice yada yada

Sorry JC but folks worked out all these things long before your wee book was written

I mean love they neighbour? - in London if you even speak to your neighbour that is a bigger miracle than any JC managed

Do not the emboldened statements contradict each other?

'Unachievable' implies a goal which cannot be attained, a problem which cannot be solved, whilst 'Worked things out' implies a problem has been solved.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I honestly don't know why people who don't believe try to belittle and poke fun at those who do. What does it matter if someone believes if you don't? I just don't get it. If someone gains comfort in believing in god and that helps them in a time of need in their life what gain is there in telling that person that they are believing in hokum or rubbish?

A believer will listen to a non believer and still probably won't change their beliefs and the same for a non believer listening to a believer. It's a pointless waste of conversation IMO. Personal faith and belief should be just that...personal. If someone is radical and tries to force their beliefs onto others, that is different and there are radicals on both sides of the argument.

That works both ways, those who do believe poke fun at those who don't too. And a huge question mark hangs over the word 'belief' as a concept... what defines a believer? god/s? jesus? I don't feel it's a waste of conversation, it's important understand what the other feels is important in their lives, and it's especially culturally important here in the UK to be understanding/accepting of each others faith/beliefs and that can't be achieved by not talking.

[Northern Monkey]

The Bible is very much like TOWIE,Fictional stories based on some real people.......imo.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by EyeballPaul

The Bible is very much like TOWIE,Fictional stories based on some real people.......imo.

..I reckon that Jesus would have coped in the rain forest a lot better than Gemma did though...

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I reckon that Jesus would have coped in the rain forest a lot better than Gemma did though...

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I reckon that Jesus would have coped in the rain forest a lot better than Gemma did though...

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I reckon that Jesus would have coped in the rain forest a lot better than Gemma did though...

Haha.She's defo not an outdoor person.

[Jules2]

LOL Ammi.

Now to me the art of forgiveness could possibly be for ones own sake, if we dwell on a problem with a person it sometimes eats away within. If we forgive it and then leave it to the other person to sort themselves out, we can go on with our lives.

The art of prayer, now this imo once again comes down to the individual reaching positive vibes and avoiding the negative. We draw the good energy to us, I am a strong believer in healing and I do feel that we heal others within our sleep state. We may not realise it but if we look for the positive vibe we can reach it. I have to say because I, along with others, have had many experiences along this line I can accept it but to me it is still life itself reaching out to teach us. I could give many examples.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Jules2

LOL Ammi.

Now to me the art of forgiveness could possibly be for ones own sake, if we dwell on a problem with a person it sometimes eats away within. If we forgive it and then leave it to the other person to sort themselves out, we can go on with our lives.

The art of prayer, now this imo once again comes down to the individual reaching positive vibes and avoiding the negative. We draw the good energy to us, I am a strong believer in healing and I do feel that we heal others within our sleep state. We may not realise it but if we look for the positive vibe we can reach it. I have to say because I, along with others, have had many experiences along this line I can accept it but to me it is still life itself reaching out to teach us. I could give many examples.

Yes exactly, it can make people bitter

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I reckon that Jesus would have coped in the rain forest a lot better than Gemma did though...

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yes exactly, it can make people bitter

But how many times can one person forgive another realistically?

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

But how many times can one person forgive another realistically?

Oh I don't mean keep going back for more, forgive but don't forget

[Jules2]

The thing is Kirk and all, if we say to each other that we wont get our message through, it sort of puts an unequal quality into play. I read it as though we are respecting each other and I think that is great because sometimes it is hard to have to rethink our values. If we want to learn though we take everything into consideration.

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

But how many times can one person forgive another realistically?

I guess it is hard really LT but if we let the bitterness store then we suffer further. I guess the old saying "what comes round goes round" hopefully takes care of an authentic slight.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Jules2

The thing is Kirk and all, if we say to each other that we wont get our message through, it sort of puts an unequal quality into play. I read it as though we are respecting each other and I think that is great because sometimes it is hard to have to rethink our values. If we want to learn though we take everything into consideration.

With all due respect Jules, with certain people - no matter how many times someone earnestly tries to explain a point in answer to a given question - they absolutely do not take any notice and merely repeat the question but couched in different terms.

And the explanation referred to is just that - an explanation for someone's viewpoint - and does not attempt to convert the questioner to the view of the one giving the explanation.

Such dogmatic refusal to even consider a sincere answer to the question posed, is wearing, does nothing to contribute to the discussion at hand, and eventually leads to a reluctance to post through a sense of futility.

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

With all due respect Jules, with certain people - no matter how many times someone earnestly tries to explain a point in answer to a given question - they absolutely do not take any notice and merely repeat the question but couched in different terms.

And the explanation referred to is just that - an explanation for someone's viewpoint - and does not attempt to convert the questioner to the view of the one giving the explanation.

Such dogmatic refusal to even consider a sincere answer to the question posed, is wearing, does nothing to contribute to the discussion at hand, and eventually leads to a reluctance to post through a sense of futility.

Ok Kirk but tbh I just do not see anyone avoiding an issue. I see everyone on a positive vein and if there is a misunderstanding it can work itself out. Because some of us do not agree it doesnt mean to say that a message wont get through.

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Oh I don't mean keep going back for more, forgive but don't forget

That is a good way of putting it Niamh, once bitten twice shy eh!!