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Ammi · 26-11-2014, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Mm very good point, I think I read somewhere that the cop was a rookie, I wonder would a more seasoned cop have been so quick to pull the trigger?

...I mean, surely he would have assessed that this was a very young person, even if he wouldn't know the exact age ...and if it was a very young person that there was a chance that the gun wasn't real or wasn't loaded and he was just messing around with it...

Crimson Dynamo · 26-11-2014, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I mean, surely he would have assessed that this was a very young person, even if he wouldn't know the exact age ...and if it was a very young person that there was a chance that the gun wasn't real or wasn't loaded and he was just messing around with it...

not in rough areas of america

its not the uk

He shouted numerous times to get down, he saw the youth pick up the gun and put it in his waistband, he shouted down again and he went for the gun

what was the cop to do?

it looked a real gun, it was not marked, as it should have been, as a replica

the youth did not do as the police asked, he went for the weapon

what could the cop do, wait for the first bullet?

GiRTh · 26-11-2014, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

not in rough areas of america

its not the uk

He shouted numerous times to get down, he saw the youth pick up the gun and put it in his waistband, he shouted down again and he went for the gun

what was the cop to do?

it looked a real gun, it was not marked, as it should have been, as a replica

the youth did not do as the police asked, he went for the weapon

what could the cop do, wait for the first bullet?

It's amazing the way you'e played the scenario out in your head and the kid never lives and the cop is always justified in shooting him.

Crimson Dynamo · 26-11-2014, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiRTh

It's amazing the way you'e played the scenario out in your head and the kid never lives and the cop is always justified in shooting him.

ideal worlds do not exist

cops are nervous in trigger happy USA, replica guns look like real guns, that is why they are replicas

hindsight is not for sale

GiRTh · 26-11-2014, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

ideal worlds do not exist

cops are nervous in trigger happy USA, replica guns look like real guns, that is why they are replicas

hindsight is not for sale

Cops are nervous of children carrying fake guns in open carry states? Doesnt look like they are being properly trained. I'd be more nervous of adults.

Ammi · 26-11-2014, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

not in rough areas of america

its not the uk

He shouted numerous times to get down, he saw the youth pick up the gun and put it in his waistband, he shouted down again and he went for the gun

what was the cop to do?

it looked a real gun, it was not marked, as it should have been, as a replica

the youth did not do as the police asked, he went for the weapon

what could the cop do, wait for the first bullet?

..maybe approach the situation with more caution and care in the first place to avoid loss of life..?..I understand what you're saying that he didn't know whether the gun was real and that a bullet would still kill whether it was being fired by a child or by an adult but there is also the point of view of the boy, he also had a gun pointed at him while a police officer was shouting at him and he had absolutely no doubts or uncertainties that, that gun was real and would be fired and so he maybe panicked..?...he was a child and must have been terrified...I don't think that approaching him/shouting at him and armed was how this should have been approached....

Crimson Dynamo · 26-11-2014, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ammi

..maybe approach the situation with more caution and care in the first place to avoid loss of life..?..I understand what you're saying that he didn't know whether the gun was real and that a bullet would still kill whether it was being fired by a child or by an adult but there is also the point of view of the boy, he also had a gun pointed at him while a police officer was shouting at him and he had absolutely no doubts or uncertainties that, that gun was real and would be fired and so he maybe panicked..?...he was a child and must have been terrified...I don't think that approaching him/shouting at him and armed was how this should have been approached....

as i said hindsight is in short supply in the police force

Ammi · 26-11-2014, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

as i said hindsight is in short supply in the police force

..but that isn't a reason though is it...these are law enforcement officers, they're there to uphold the law and keep the peace, they're not executioners with a 'can't take any chances/let's just shoot them all and think about it later' thing going on...it's been said in a lot of articles that the young boy's hand went down to his belt where the fake gun was so he didn't have it in his hand at the time that the police officer was shouting at him, which is an indication that the officer's method of 'handling' and containing the situation was all wrong, completely wrong and possibly contributed to escalating something that should never have happened caused this child to lose his life... and now a young child is dead, parents have lost their child..if that was you or I and one of our children, would we indeed be questioning that, that officer did not assess that situation well...

kirklancaster · 26-11-2014, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ammi

..but that isn't a reason though is it...these are law enforcement officers, they're there to uphold the law and keep the peace, they're not executioners with a 'can't take any chances/let's just shoot them all and think about it later' thing going on...it's been said in a lot of articles that the young boy's hand went down to his belt where the fake gun was so he didn't have it in his hand at the time that the police officer was shouting at him, which is an indication that the officer's method of 'handling' and containing the situation was all wrong, completely wrong and possibly contributed to escalating something that should never have happened caused this child to lose his life... and now a young child is dead, parents have lost their child..if that was you or I and one of our children, would we indeed be questioning that, that officer did not assess that situation well...

Superbly argued Ammi and all valid.

Crimson Dynamo · 26-11-2014, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ammi

..but that isn't a reason though is it...these are law enforcement officers, they're there to uphold the law and keep the peace, they're not executioners with a 'can't take any chances/let's just shoot them all and think about it later' thing going on...it's been said in a lot of articles that the young boy's hand went down to his belt where the fake gun was so he didn't have it in his hand at the time that the police officer was shouting at him, which is an indication that the officer's method of 'handling' and containing the situation was all wrong, completely wrong and possibly contributed to escalating something that should never have happened caused this child to lose his life... and now a young child is dead, parents have lost their child..if that was you or I and one of our children, would we indeed be questioning that, that officer did not assess that situation well...

What should the officer have done when the youth went for the gun and ignored his command?

Ammi · 26-11-2014, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

What should the officer have done when the youth went for the gun and ignored his command?

...is it not more, what should the police officer have done to assess and de-escalate a situation involving a child so as not frighten/panic him by shouting and aiming his gun at him....and maybe that would have resulted in no loss of life ....and parents whose son was still with them....