[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I also don't get keeping it in her bag at all because if she was attacked/if it was for self defence then she wouldn't have time to rummage around in her bag for it...if she was mugged then her bag would be the thing taken..?..doesn't make sense...

Agree.She could've had it attached to her stocking or something.Floating around in her bag is idiotic.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

It's crazy to us, but in some cultures it's second nature. I would personally not go out of doors without a gun if I lived in a lot of countries in the world, and as this occurred in America, I think the issue is not that she did carry a gun, but the manner in which she carried it.

As a lot already commented, if it had been holstered then this tragedy would probably never have happened.

I think that it's a double lesson to to all gun owning parents of young children really, that both guns and young children need handling with the utmost responsibility at all times. A gun bought for 'defensive' purposes becomes an offensive weapon in the wrong hands, and because young children are ignorant and unpredictable, theirs will always qualify as 'the wrong hands'.

Totally tragic, but totally avoidable.

I don't care how many have attempted to justify it, it's not the wild wild west.. get some perspective here innocent babies don't kill people, ignorant people who carry guns do.
In nosituation when shopping with an infant would carrying a gun be considered sensible defence imo.

[Livia]

Can't see anyone on here attempting to justify this. The woman had a permit and therefore a legal right to carry a concealed firearm. It was stupid and irresponsible not to have secured the weapon properly which would have saved her life but she didn't, and tragedy ensued.

[Kizzy]

My post makes it clear I don't agree with carrying the gun in any way and wouldn't be wise whilst shopping with an infant, therefore the discussions relating to carrying the gun correctly as suggested in the thread I disagree with.

[Livia]

It's a different country where it's legal to carry a gun with a permit, so it doesn't make any difference if any of us approve or disapprove. What people are clearly saying is, had the gun been carried correctly it wouldn't have happened at all. And still I see no one justifying this.

[Kizzy]

Whether it's legal or not is irrelevant to me, again I don't feel it justifiable in any circumstance to carry a gun whilst shopping with a child.
The justification is the suggestion that it be acceptable with the proposed 'safeguards' in place, to me that's not enough.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by ArchAngel

I don't care how many have attempted to justify it, it's not the wild wild west.. get some perspective here innocent babies don't kill people, ignorant people who carry guns do.
In nosituation when shopping with an infant would carrying a gun be considered sensible defence imo.

With you being so erudite and perceptive Kizzy, I am sure that this is a great response, but as to just which post it is a response to is the big question, because though you quote me, there is absolutely zilch in my post which justifies to any degree any of the sentiments in your response.

Oh I know just why you responded, because my posts are like the proverbial 'red rag' to a bull with you (and certain of your cronies) and it is your Modus Operandi with my posts to see what is not there and ignore what is, but aren't you tired yet of constantly creating another 'strawman' everytime I post?

Anyway, just to show you I appreciate all this effort on my behalf (quite flattering really) I've penned you a little ditty based on a song by one of my favourite singer/songwriters - Robert Zimmerman. It took me about 2 minutes so it's not perfect but is dedicated to you, so enjoy:

'It's Time You Were A Changing'

Come gather round false critics with laptops at hand
To keep criticising what you don't want to understand.
For the clarity of my prose ain't beyond your command
And it's for your own hidden agendas you're raging.

But it's all as transparent as glass and a pain in the ass
So it's time you were a changing.

There's no flaws in my statements and your counters are weak,
So you resort to misquoting in a 'Strawman' technique
But despite all your efforts to keep your reasons oblique

It's all as transparent as glass and a pain in the ass
So it's time you were a changing.

Oh, as a post script and FYI: if "an innocent baby" pulls the trigger of a loaded gun and shoots someone who dies as a result, then the "innocent baby" has "killed someone" - this is beyond argument, and just why you emboldened "young children are ignorant and unpredictable" in my post is a mystery because the absolute truth of my statement is also beyond argument.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Livia

It's a different country where it's legal to carry a gun with a permit, so it doesn't make any difference if any of us approve or disapprove. What people are clearly saying is, had the gun been carried correctly it wouldn't have happened at all. And still I see no one justifying this.

Thank my God for you Livia - sometimes I doubt my own sanity and lose the will to live.