[joeysteele]

She was a UKIP councillor,supported by the UKIP party as a whole, if this had not come out, she would alsos till now be a UKIP councillor.

It does beg the question, how many more but now after this will the electorate be told of any more,or will they be kept 'muzzled' for want of a better description as to this issue,until after the general election now.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Its begs your question joey

Meanwhile back in the real world. ..

[Kizzy]

Back in the real world we want our politicians unprejudiced... it's a big ask from UKIP it seems.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Lol

And what party are you thinking of?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Lol

And what party are you thinking of?

Not the same one your..you're...you are

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Not the same one your..you're...you are

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Please dont try and deflect. How are this woman's comments not racist?

As has been discussed at length on various programmes yesterday, is an irrational fear of black people racism ?

Can you be racist if you are just very uncomfortable with black people but do not no why. Maybe more of a phobia perhaps but not blatant racism?

I don't believe in the explanation but thought I would offer it in this debate as an alternative view.

Apparently this was this lady's defence.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

As has been discussed at length on various programmes yesterday, is an irrational fear of black people racism ?

Can you be racist if you are just very uncomfortable with black people but do not no why. Maybe more of a phobia perhaps but not blatant racism?

I don't believe in the explanation but thought I would offer it in this debate as an alternative view.

Apparently this was this lady's defence.

Fair comment Nedusa.

I think the fact that these 'cranks' are repeatedly being 'discovered' within UKIP has more to do with the fact that many intelligent people who actually identify with UKIP and its policies, dare not 'come out of the closet' and state as much (rather like not agreeing with extreme left-wing views on here ) - let alone apply to become a candidate.

This dearth of applicants from which they are forced to try to select 'quality' candidates from, coupled with the fact that 'racists' gravitate towards the party anyway because of perceived intrinsic racism - largely 'media' caused - explains the frequency with which low brow UKIP representatives commit racist faux pas after racist faux pas.

I think that the spotlight should not fall solely on these morons because of the above, but also on the very real fact that Farage has both barred some known racist applicants from even becoming members, and is also continually purging members who prove to be so.

I do not believe that a party with genuine racist policies will ever attain power in the UK if such policies are blatant from the onset, and I do not believe that any party with genuine racist policies will stay in power in the UK for more than one term, if such policies are covert prior to election then manifest themselves slowly once in power.

Perhaps Farage is to be applauded not demonised because he appears to be the only political party leader actually lifting the party carpet to clear out all the hidden dirt - unlike the other leaders who seem content to hold with long practiced traditions in not only hiding the fact there is indeed a large pile of accumulated dirt under their party carpets, but in also sweeping more dirt under it.

There are, after all, other crimes and immoral practices which are just as offensive and wrong as racism, and unfortunately, the history of our political parties are a veritable store-house of examples of such practices, as this - not fully extensive - list from Wikipedia attests for those politically impartial members who are really interested in truth and not just anti UKIP propaganda:


1960s

Soviet agent John Vassall working for Minister Tam Galbraith (1962)
Profumo Affair (1963): Secretary of State for War John Profumo had an affair with prostitute Christine Keeler (to whom he had been introduced by pimp and drug-dealer Stephen Ward) who was having an affair with a Soviet spy at the same time.

1970s

Corrupt architect John Poulson and links to Conservative Home Secretary Reginald Maudling, Labour council leader T. Dan Smith and others (1972-4): Maudling resigned, Smith sentenced to imprisonment.

Earl Jellicoe and Lord Lambton sex scandal (1973): Conservatives, junior defence minister Lambton is arrested for using prostitutes and Cabinet minister Jellicoe also confesses.

Labour MP John Stonehouse's faked suicide (1974)
Harold Wilson's Prime Minister's Resignation Honours (known satirically as the "Lavender List") gives honours to a number of wealthy businessmen whose principles were considered antipathetic to those held by the Labour party (May 1976)

Peter Jay's appointment as British Ambassador to the U.S. by his father in law, the then Labour Prime Minister James Callaghan. At the time Jay was a journalist with little diplomatic experience.(1976)

"Rinkagate": Liberal Party leader Jeremy Thorpe was arrested and tried for allegedly paying a hitman to murder his homosexual lover, model Norman Scott, while walking his dog on Exmoor; the hitman only shot the dog, Rinka. Thorpe was forced to resign due to his clandestine gay affairs, but was acquitted of conspiracy to murder.

1980s

Joseph Kagan, Baron Kagan, earlier ennobled by the Labour Prime Minister Harold Wilson's notorious Lavender List (1976), was convicted of fraud (1980)
Cecil Parkinson affair with secretary Sara Keays resulting in their child, Flora Keays (1983)

Al Yamamah contract alleged to have been obtained by bribery (1985)
Westland affair (1986): The Defence Secretary, Michael Heseltine resigned from his Cabinet job in a disagreement with Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher over the Westland affair. Mr Heseltine walked out of a meeting at Number 10 concerning his views on the future of the Westland helicopter company were being ignored at the time.

Jeffrey Archer and the prostitute allegations (1986), and his subsequent conviction for perjury (2001)

Edwina Currie resigns as a junior Health minister for incorrectly claiming that millions of British eggs were infected with salmonella, stating that "most of [British] egg production" was infected (1988)

"Homes for votes" gerrymandering scandal (1987–1989)

BSE (1989)

1990s

Nicholas Ridley compares the EU to the Third Reich in an interview in The Spectator magazine (1990)

Arms-to-Iraq and the closely connected Iraqi Supergun affair (1990)

David Mellor resignation after press disclosure of his affair with Antonia de Sancha and gratis holiday from a daughter of a PLO official (1992)

Squidgygate, the covert leaking of a bugged phone call between the Princess of Wales and James Hewitt, although the phrase originally referred to the exposure of the Princess's extramarital affair (1992)

Michael Mates gift of watch to Asil Nadir (1993)

Monklandsgate dominated the Monklands East by-election. It mainly consisted of allegations of sectarian spending discrepancies between Protestant Airdrie and Catholic Coatbridge, fuelled by the fact that all 17 of the ruling Labour group were Roman Catholics. (1994)

Back to Basics, a government policy slogan portrayed by opponents and the press as a morality campaign to compare it with a contemporaneous succession of sex scandals in John Major's government which led to the resignation of Tim Yeo and the Earl of Caithness, among others (1994)

Cash-for-questions affair involving Neil Hamilton, Tim Smith and Mohamed Al-Fayed (1994)

Jonathan Aitken and the hotel bill allegations, and subsequent conviction for perjury after his failed libel action against The Guardian, resulting in Aitken being only the third person to have to resign from the Privy Council in the 20th century. (1995)

Bernie Ecclestone was involved in a political scandal when it transpired he had given the Labour Party a million pound donation - which raised eyebrows when the incoming Labour government changed its policy to allow Formula One to continue being sponsored by tobacco manufacturers. The Labour Party returned the donation when the scandal came to light. (1997)

Double resignation rocks government. Peter Mandelson, Trade and Industry Secretary, resigns after failing to disclose Ł373,000 loan from Paymaster General Geoffrey Robinson. (1998)

Ron Davies resigns from the cabinet after being robbed by a man he met at Clapham Common and then lying about it (1998)

Jerry Hayes was "outed" as a homosexual by the News of the World, with the headline "TORY MP 2-TIMED WIFE WITH UNDER-AGE GAY LOVER". Hayes had met Young Conservative Paul Stone at the 1991 Conservative conference and that same evening, "committed a lewd act which was in breach of the law at the time". Stone had been 18 at the time, whilst the legal age for homosexual sex in 1991 was 21. He had previously supported Section 28 and other anti-gay legislation. (1997)

2000s

Officegate (2001). Henry McLeish, Labour First Minister of Scotland, failed to refund the House of Commons for income he had received from the sub-let of his constituency office in Glenrothes while still a Westminster MP.
Keith Vaz, Peter Mandelson and the Hinduja brothers. Mandelson forced to resign again due to misleading statements. (2001)

Jo Moore, within an hour of the September 11 attacks, Moore sent an email to the press office of her department suggesting: It's now a very good day to get out anything we want to bury. Councillors' expenses? Although prior to the catastrophic collapse of the towers, the phrase "a good day to bury bad news" (not actually used by Moore) has since been used to refer to other instances of attempting to hide one item of news behind a more publicised issue.

In 2002, Edwina Currie revealed that she had had an affair, beginning in 1984, with John Major before he became Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. This was criticised more harshly than may otherwise have been the case as Major had frequently pushed his Back To Basics agenda (see above), which was taken by the media as a form of moral absolutism.

The Burrell affair - allegations about the behavior of the British Royal Family and their servants with possible constitutional implications. (2002)

Ron Davies stands down from Welsh assembly following accusations of illicit gay sex. Mr Davies had claimed he had been badger-watching in the area. (2003)

The apparent suicide of Dr. David Kelly and the Hutton Inquiry. On 17 July 2003, Kelly, an employee of the Ministry of Defence, apparently committed suicide after being misquoted by BBC journalist Andrew Gilligan as saying that Tony Blair's Labour government had knowingly "sexed up" the "September Dossier", a report into Iraq and weapons of mass destruction. The government was cleared of wrongdoing, while the BBC was strongly criticised by the subsequent inquiry, leading to the resignation of the BBC's chairman and director-general.

In April 2004, Beverly Hughes was forced to resign as minister for Immigration, Citizenship and Counter Terrorism when it was shown that she had been informed of procedural improprieties concerning the granting of visas to certain categories of workers from Eastern Europe. She had earlier told the House of Commons that if she had been aware of such facts she would have done something about it.

In 2005, David McLetchie, leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party is forced to resign after claiming the highest taxi expenses of any MSP. These included personal journeys, journeys related solely with his second job as a solicitor, and Conservative Party business, for example travel to Conservative conferences. Conservative backbench MSP Brian Monteith has the whip withdrawn for briefing against his leader to the Scotland on Sunday newspaper.

Liberal Democrats Home Affairs spokesman Mark Oaten resigns after it is revealed by the News of the World that he paid rentboys to perform sexual activities on him.

Tessa Jowell financial allegations (2006). Tessa Jowell, Labour cabinet minister, embroiled in a scandal about a property remortgage allegedly arranged to enable her husband to realise Ł350,000 from an off-shore hedge fund, money he allegedly received as a gift following testimony he had provided for Silvio Berlusconi in the 1990s.[15] Popularised by the press as "Jowellgate".

In March 2006 it emerged that the Labour party had borrowed millions of pounds in 2005 to help fund their general election campaign. While not illegal, on 15 March the Treasurer of the party, Jack Dromey stated publicly that he had neither knowledge of or involvement in these loans and had only become aware when he read about it in the newspapers. A story was running at the time that Dr Chai Patel and others had been recommended for Life peerages after lending the Labour party money. He called on the Electoral Commission to investigate the issue of political parties taking out loans from non-commercial sources.

Cash for Honours (2006). Following revelations about Dr Chai Patel and others who were recommended for peerages after lending the Labour party money, the Treasurer of the party, Jack Dromey said he had not been involved and did not know the party had secretly borrowed millions of pounds in 2005. He called on the Electoral Commission to investigate the issue of political parties taking out loans from non-commercial sources.

In November 2007, it emerged that more than Ł400,000 had been accepted by the Labour Party from one person through a series of third parties, causing the Electoral Commission to seek an explanation.[18] Peter Watt resigned as the General Secretary of the party the day after the story broke and was quoted as saying that he knew about the arrangement but had not appreciated that he had failed to comply with the reporting requirements.[19]
On 24 January 2008, Peter Hain resigned his two cabinet posts (Secretary of State for Work and Pensions and Secretary of State for Wales) after the Electoral Commission referred donations to his Deputy Leadership campaign to the police.

Derek Conway (2008). Conservative Party MP found to have reclaimed salaries he had paid to his two sons who had in fact not carried out the work to the extent claimed. Ordered to repay Ł16,918, suspended from the House of Commons for 10 days and removed from the party whip.

Cash for Influence (2009). Details of covertly recorded discussions with 4 Labour Party peers which their ability to influence legislation and the consultancy fees that they charge (including retainer payments of up to Ł120,000) were published by The Sunday Times.

United Kingdom parliamentary expenses scandal (2009), following the disclosure of widespread actual and alleged misuse of the permitted allowances and expenses claimed by Members of Parliament and attempts by MPs and peers to exempt themselves from Freedom of Information legislation.

2010s

The Iris Robinson scandal in which First Minister of Northern Ireland Peter Robinson stepped aside for six weeks in January 2010 following revelations of his wife’s involvement in an extramarital affair, her attempted suicide and allegations that he had failed to properly declare details of loans she had procured for her lover to develop a business venture.

The 2010 Cash for Influence Scandal, in which undercover reporters for the Dispatches television series posed as political lobbyists offering to pay Members of Parliament to influence policy.

On 29 May 2010 Chief Secretary to the Treasury David Laws resigned from the Cabinet and was referred to the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards after the Daily Telegraph newspaper published details of Laws claiming around Ł40,000 in expenses on a second home owned by a secret partner between 2004 and 2009 whilst House of Commons rules have prevented MPs from claiming second home expenses on properties owned by a partner since 2006. By resigning Laws became the shortest serving Minister in modern British political history with less than 18 days service as a Cabinet Minister.

On 14 October 2011 Secretary of State for Defence Liam Fox resigned from the Cabinet after he "mistakenly allowed the distinction between [his] personal interest and [his] government activities to become blurred" over his friendship with Adam Werrity.

Conservative Party 'Cash for Access' scandal, March 2012.
In April 2012 Conservative Party MP and culture secretary Jeremy Hunt came under pressure to resign as a result of his closeness to Rupert Murdoch's media empire and alleged corruption in dealing with Murdoch's bid for News Corporation's takeover of BSkyB.

In October 2012 Andrew Mitchell resigned from his post as Chief Whip following allegations made about his conduct during an altercation with police at Downing Street on 19 September, the incident becoming known as "plebgate".

The 2013 Labour Party Falkirk candidate selection, which began following the announcement that the incumbent MP Eric Joyce was to step down at the 2015 General Election, erupted into a scandal after allegations were made on the significant infiltration of the selection process by the trade union Unite, currently the Labour Party's largest financial backer.

In April 2014 Maria Miller, the Culture Secretary, resigned following pressure relating to the results of an investigation into her past expenses claims.


So is Farage and his UKIP the racist 'Devil in Disguise' which the left wing media are so comprehensively portraying him as?

I for one, cannot judge him on unproven allegation, rumour, and even genuine associations, but I can judge the 'Devils We Know' who are the other political parties, based on very real and irrefutable histories going back over a hundred years.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

As has been discussed at length on various programmes yesterday, is an irrational fear of black people racism ?

Can you be racist if you are just very uncomfortable with black people but do not no why. Maybe more of a phobia perhaps but not blatant racism?

I don't believe in the explanation but thought I would offer it in this debate as an alternative view.

Apparently this was this lady's defence.

Its the weakest defense I've ever heard. I'd respect her more if she admitted her irrational hatred. Her phobia is as clear a case of blatant racism as we will come across for a while.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Fair comment Nedusa.

I think the fact that these 'cranks' are repeatedly being 'discovered' within UKIP has more to do with the fact that many intelligent people who actually identify with UKIP and its policies, dare not 'come out of the closet' and state as much (rather like not agreeing with extreme left-wing views on here ) - let alone apply to become a candidate.

This dearth of applicants from which they are forced to try to select 'quality' candidates from, coupled with the fact that 'racists' gravitate towards the party anyway because of perceived intrinsic racism - largely 'media' caused - explains the frequency with which low brow UKIP representatives commit racist faux pas after racist faux pas.

I think that the spotlight should not fall solely on these morons because of the above, but also on the very real fact that Farage has both barred some known racist applicants from even becoming members, and is also continually purging members who prove to be so.

I do not believe that a party with genuine racist policies will ever attain power in the UK if such policies are blatant from the onset, and I do not believe that any party with genuine racist policies will stay in power in the UK for more than one term, if such policies are covert prior to election then manifest themselves slowly once in power.

Perhaps Farage is to be applauded not demonised because he appears to be the only political party leader actually lifting the party carpet to clear out all the hidden dirt - unlike the other leaders who seem content to hold with long practiced traditions in not only hiding the fact there is indeed a large pile of accumulated dirt under their party carpets, but in also sweeping more dirt under it.

There are, after all, other crimes and immoral practices which are just as offensive and wrong as racism, and unfortunately, the history of our political parties are a veritable store-house of examples of such practices, as this - not fully extensive - list from Wikipedia attests for those politically impartial members who are really interested in truth and not just anti UKIP propaganda:


1960s

Soviet agent John Vassall working for Minister Tam Galbraith (1962)
Profumo Affair (1963): Secretary of State for War John Profumo had an affair with prostitute Christine Keeler (to whom he had been introduced by pimp and drug-dealer Stephen Ward) who was having an affair with a Soviet spy at the same time.

1970s

Corrupt architect John Poulson and links to Conservative Home Secretary Reginald Maudling, Labour council leader T. Dan Smith and others (1972-4): Maudling resigned, Smith sentenced to imprisonment.

Earl Jellicoe and Lord Lambton sex scandal (1973): Conservatives, junior defence minister Lambton is arrested for using prostitutes and Cabinet minister Jellicoe also confesses.

Labour MP John Stonehouse's faked suicide (1974)
Harold Wilson's Prime Minister's Resignation Honours (known satirically as the "Lavender List") gives honours to a number of wealthy businessmen whose principles were considered antipathetic to those held by the Labour party (May 1976)

Peter Jay's appointment as British Ambassador to the U.S. by his father in law, the then Labour Prime Minister James Callaghan. At the time Jay was a journalist with little diplomatic experience.(1976)

"Rinkagate": Liberal Party leader Jeremy Thorpe was arrested and tried for allegedly paying a hitman to murder his homosexual lover, model Norman Scott, while walking his dog on Exmoor; the hitman only shot the dog, Rinka. Thorpe was forced to resign due to his clandestine gay affairs, but was acquitted of conspiracy to murder.

1980s

Joseph Kagan, Baron Kagan, earlier ennobled by the Labour Prime Minister Harold Wilson's notorious Lavender List (1976), was convicted of fraud (1980)
Cecil Parkinson affair with secretary Sara Keays resulting in their child, Flora Keays (1983)

Al Yamamah contract alleged to have been obtained by bribery (1985)
Westland affair (1986): The Defence Secretary, Michael Heseltine resigned from his Cabinet job in a disagreement with Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher over the Westland affair. Mr Heseltine walked out of a meeting at Number 10 concerning his views on the future of the Westland helicopter company were being ignored at the time.

Jeffrey Archer and the prostitute allegations (1986), and his subsequent conviction for perjury (2001)

Edwina Currie resigns as a junior Health minister for incorrectly claiming that millions of British eggs were infected with salmonella, stating that "most of [British] egg production" was infected (1988)

"Homes for votes" gerrymandering scandal (1987–1989)

BSE (1989)

1990s

Nicholas Ridley compares the EU to the Third Reich in an interview in The Spectator magazine (1990)

Arms-to-Iraq and the closely connected Iraqi Supergun affair (1990)

David Mellor resignation after press disclosure of his affair with Antonia de Sancha and gratis holiday from a daughter of a PLO official (1992)

Squidgygate, the covert leaking of a bugged phone call between the Princess of Wales and James Hewitt, although the phrase originally referred to the exposure of the Princess's extramarital affair (1992)

Michael Mates gift of watch to Asil Nadir (1993)

Monklandsgate dominated the Monklands East by-election. It mainly consisted of allegations of sectarian spending discrepancies between Protestant Airdrie and Catholic Coatbridge, fuelled by the fact that all 17 of the ruling Labour group were Roman Catholics. (1994)

Back to Basics, a government policy slogan portrayed by opponents and the press as a morality campaign to compare it with a contemporaneous succession of sex scandals in John Major's government which led to the resignation of Tim Yeo and the Earl of Caithness, among others (1994)

Cash-for-questions affair involving Neil Hamilton, Tim Smith and Mohamed Al-Fayed (1994)

Jonathan Aitken and the hotel bill allegations, and subsequent conviction for perjury after his failed libel action against The Guardian, resulting in Aitken being only the third person to have to resign from the Privy Council in the 20th century. (1995)

Bernie Ecclestone was involved in a political scandal when it transpired he had given the Labour Party a million pound donation - which raised eyebrows when the incoming Labour government changed its policy to allow Formula One to continue being sponsored by tobacco manufacturers. The Labour Party returned the donation when the scandal came to light. (1997)

Double resignation rocks government. Peter Mandelson, Trade and Industry Secretary, resigns after failing to disclose Ł373,000 loan from Paymaster General Geoffrey Robinson. (1998)

Ron Davies resigns from the cabinet after being robbed by a man he met at Clapham Common and then lying about it (1998)

Jerry Hayes was "outed" as a homosexual by the News of the World, with the headline "TORY MP 2-TIMED WIFE WITH UNDER-AGE GAY LOVER". Hayes had met Young Conservative Paul Stone at the 1991 Conservative conference and that same evening, "committed a lewd act which was in breach of the law at the time". Stone had been 18 at the time, whilst the legal age for homosexual sex in 1991 was 21. He had previously supported Section 28 and other anti-gay legislation. (1997)

2000s

Officegate (2001). Henry McLeish, Labour First Minister of Scotland, failed to refund the House of Commons for income he had received from the sub-let of his constituency office in Glenrothes while still a Westminster MP.
Keith Vaz, Peter Mandelson and the Hinduja brothers. Mandelson forced to resign again due to misleading statements. (2001)

Jo Moore, within an hour of the September 11 attacks, Moore sent an email to the press office of her department suggesting: It's now a very good day to get out anything we want to bury. Councillors' expenses? Although prior to the catastrophic collapse of the towers, the phrase "a good day to bury bad news" (not actually used by Moore) has since been used to refer to other instances of attempting to hide one item of news behind a more publicised issue.

In 2002, Edwina Currie revealed that she had had an affair, beginning in 1984, with John Major before he became Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. This was criticised more harshly than may otherwise have been the case as Major had frequently pushed his Back To Basics agenda (see above), which was taken by the media as a form of moral absolutism.

The Burrell affair - allegations about the behavior of the British Royal Family and their servants with possible constitutional implications. (2002)

Ron Davies stands down from Welsh assembly following accusations of illicit gay sex. Mr Davies had claimed he had been badger-watching in the area. (2003)

The apparent suicide of Dr. David Kelly and the Hutton Inquiry. On 17 July 2003, Kelly, an employee of the Ministry of Defence, apparently committed suicide after being misquoted by BBC journalist Andrew Gilligan as saying that Tony Blair's Labour government had knowingly "sexed up" the "September Dossier", a report into Iraq and weapons of mass destruction. The government was cleared of wrongdoing, while the BBC was strongly criticised by the subsequent inquiry, leading to the resignation of the BBC's chairman and director-general.

In April 2004, Beverly Hughes was forced to resign as minister for Immigration, Citizenship and Counter Terrorism when it was shown that she had been informed of procedural improprieties concerning the granting of visas to certain categories of workers from Eastern Europe. She had earlier told the House of Commons that if she had been aware of such facts she would have done something about it.

In 2005, David McLetchie, leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party is forced to resign after claiming the highest taxi expenses of any MSP. These included personal journeys, journeys related solely with his second job as a solicitor, and Conservative Party business, for example travel to Conservative conferences. Conservative backbench MSP Brian Monteith has the whip withdrawn for briefing against his leader to the Scotland on Sunday newspaper.

Liberal Democrats Home Affairs spokesman Mark Oaten resigns after it is revealed by the News of the World that he paid rentboys to perform sexual activities on him.

Tessa Jowell financial allegations (2006). Tessa Jowell, Labour cabinet minister, embroiled in a scandal about a property remortgage allegedly arranged to enable her husband to realise Ł350,000 from an off-shore hedge fund, money he allegedly received as a gift following testimony he had provided for Silvio Berlusconi in the 1990s.[15] Popularised by the press as "Jowellgate".

In March 2006 it emerged that the Labour party had borrowed millions of pounds in 2005 to help fund their general election campaign. While not illegal, on 15 March the Treasurer of the party, Jack Dromey stated publicly that he had neither knowledge of or involvement in these loans and had only become aware when he read about it in the newspapers. A story was running at the time that Dr Chai Patel and others had been recommended for Life peerages after lending the Labour party money. He called on the Electoral Commission to investigate the issue of political parties taking out loans from non-commercial sources.

Cash for Honours (2006). Following revelations about Dr Chai Patel and others who were recommended for peerages after lending the Labour party money, the Treasurer of the party, Jack Dromey said he had not been involved and did not know the party had secretly borrowed millions of pounds in 2005. He called on the Electoral Commission to investigate the issue of political parties taking out loans from non-commercial sources.

In November 2007, it emerged that more than Ł400,000 had been accepted by the Labour Party from one person through a series of third parties, causing the Electoral Commission to seek an explanation.[18] Peter Watt resigned as the General Secretary of the party the day after the story broke and was quoted as saying that he knew about the arrangement but had not appreciated that he had failed to comply with the reporting requirements.[19]
On 24 January 2008, Peter Hain resigned his two cabinet posts (Secretary of State for Work and Pensions and Secretary of State for Wales) after the Electoral Commission referred donations to his Deputy Leadership campaign to the police.

Derek Conway (2008). Conservative Party MP found to have reclaimed salaries he had paid to his two sons who had in fact not carried out the work to the extent claimed. Ordered to repay Ł16,918, suspended from the House of Commons for 10 days and removed from the party whip.

Cash for Influence (2009). Details of covertly recorded discussions with 4 Labour Party peers which their ability to influence legislation and the consultancy fees that they charge (including retainer payments of up to Ł120,000) were published by The Sunday Times.

United Kingdom parliamentary expenses scandal (2009), following the disclosure of widespread actual and alleged misuse of the permitted allowances and expenses claimed by Members of Parliament and attempts by MPs and peers to exempt themselves from Freedom of Information legislation.

2010s

The Iris Robinson scandal in which First Minister of Northern Ireland Peter Robinson stepped aside for six weeks in January 2010 following revelations of his wife’s involvement in an extramarital affair, her attempted suicide and allegations that he had failed to properly declare details of loans she had procured for her lover to develop a business venture.

The 2010 Cash for Influence Scandal, in which undercover reporters for the Dispatches television series posed as political lobbyists offering to pay Members of Parliament to influence policy.

On 29 May 2010 Chief Secretary to the Treasury David Laws resigned from the Cabinet and was referred to the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards after the Daily Telegraph newspaper published details of Laws claiming around Ł40,000 in expenses on a second home owned by a secret partner between 2004 and 2009 whilst House of Commons rules have prevented MPs from claiming second home expenses on properties owned by a partner since 2006. By resigning Laws became the shortest serving Minister in modern British political history with less than 18 days service as a Cabinet Minister.

On 14 October 2011 Secretary of State for Defence Liam Fox resigned from the Cabinet after he "mistakenly allowed the distinction between [his] personal interest and [his] government activities to become blurred" over his friendship with Adam Werrity.

Conservative Party 'Cash for Access' scandal, March 2012.
In April 2012 Conservative Party MP and culture secretary Jeremy Hunt came under pressure to resign as a result of his closeness to Rupert Murdoch's media empire and alleged corruption in dealing with Murdoch's bid for News Corporation's takeover of BSkyB.

In October 2012 Andrew Mitchell resigned from his post as Chief Whip following allegations made about his conduct during an altercation with police at Downing Street on 19 September, the incident becoming known as "plebgate".

The 2013 Labour Party Falkirk candidate selection, which began following the announcement that the incumbent MP Eric Joyce was to step down at the 2015 General Election, erupted into a scandal after allegations were made on the significant infiltration of the selection process by the trade union Unite, currently the Labour Party's largest financial backer.

In April 2014 Maria Miller, the Culture Secretary, resigned following pressure relating to the results of an investigation into her past expenses claims.


So is Farage and his UKIP the racist 'Devil in Disguise' which the left wing media are so comprehensively portraying him as?

I for one, cannot judge him on unproven allegation, rumour, and even genuine associations, but I can judge the 'Devils We Know' who are the other political parties, based on very real and irrefutable histories going back over a hundred years.

The spin machine is in full flow. Why dont we stick to the issues and discuss this woman statement and the intent behind it cuz in this case there is clear intent.

[user104658]

Meh. Maybe she does have an irrational fear / phobia of people with "black features". Phobias are many and varied, and to play devil's advocate, you can't just "decide" not to have a phobia. I wish that I wasn't racist about spiders, I really try, but then I see a spider and lose my **** every time. SO, she can't be "blamed" for her phobia - there's probably someone else who can be blamed for it (i.e. whoever presumably raised her on boogeyman tales about black people).

Howeveeerrr...

1) Should someone with an irrational fear or phobia of an ethnic group seek a career in politics or be accepted as a valid politician in a multi-racial country?

NOPE.


2) Does her choice of political allegiance and party membership speak volumes about UKIP?

Yup yup yup!

She felt like she would "fit in" at UKIP and find like-minded people. IMO, she was 100% right. Do you think for one second that her colleagues didn't know about her "fears" and opinions about black people before it came out in this documentary? It seems highly unlikely. She's been expelled because her views explicitly came out in public and UKIP, currently enjoying a bit of a membership boost, doesn't want to be seen as "extreme". She was not kicked out for holding those views in the first place.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

The spin machine is in full flow. Why dont we stick to the issues and discuss this woman statement and the intent behind it cuz in this case there is clear intent.

I have already stated that she is a moron who should not be in any type of official office, but just for the record; I believe that she is a low-brow who does not understand the issues of racial prejudice and she has not the intellectual ability or guile to 'Engage brain before operating mouth' and needs to GO.

As for "spin machine in full flow"; 'spin' is a double edged sword which cuts both ways,and - like a 'handgun' our view of it fully depends whether we are pointing the gun at someone or having it pointed at us.

I assume from the tone of your comment then Girth, that you sanction propaganda when it persuades opinion against Farage and UKIP, but when I point out that such propaganda is based on 'unproven allegation' summisation and 'might' and 'Probably', in contrast to the very real extensive and proven criminal and immoral acts perpetrated by the other main political parties, you deem such as 'spin'.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Meh. Maybe she does have an irrational fear / phobia of people with "black features". Phobias are many and varied, and to play devil's advocate, you can't just "decide" not to have a phobia. I wish that I wasn't racist about spiders, I really try, but then I see a spider and lose my **** every time. SO, she can't be "blamed" for her phobia - there's probably someone else who can be blamed for it (i.e. whoever presumably raised her on boogeyman tales about black people).

Howeveeerrr...

1) Should someone with an irrational fear or phobia of an ethnic group seek a career in politics or be accepted as a valid politician in a multi-racial country?

NOPE.


2) Does her choice of political allegiance and party membership speak volumes about UKIP?

Yup yup yup!

She felt like she would "fit in" at UKIP and find like-minded people. IMO, she was 100% right. Do you think for one second that her colleagues didn't know about her "fears" and opinions about black people before it came out in this documentary? It seems highly unlikely. She's been expelled because her views explicitly came out in public and UKIP, currently enjoying a bit of a membership boost, doesn't want to be seen as "extreme". She was not kicked out for holding those views in the first place.

I totally agree with everything you say in the section which I have emboldened T.S - Totally agree.

I cannot however, agree with the rest. There is no more evidence that Farage or any of her UKIP colleagues in authority knew about her cretinous views, than there is evidence that Cameron or Milliband were aware of Rifkind or Straw's inclinations, or many of the party leaders in the historical list in my earlier post were aware of all their respective members immoral, unethical, or downright criminal predilections and acts.

All views are subjective, but no matter how we may perceive Farage and/or UKIP, the clear facts remain that he is not thus far guilty of any racism, not proposed any racist policies, and has actually not only spoken out against such, but backed that up by denying known racists membership of his party, and by expelling any members that subsequently prove to be racist.

Until Farage actually is in a position of power and until he actually uses such power to implement racists policies into our constitution, then all unfounded allegations against him and all theorising, are mere 'spin' - but the same cannot be said about the well documented historical facts about the many, many failings of the main political parties and their many, many, corrupt members.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I totally agree with everything you say in the section which I have emboldened T.S - Totally agree.

I cannot however, agree with the rest. There is no more evidence that Farage or any of her UKIP colleagues in authority knew about her cretinous views, than there is evidence that Cameron or Milliband were aware of Rifkind or Straw's inclinations, or many of the party leaders in the historical list in my earlier post were aware of all their respective members immoral, unethical, or downright criminal predilections and acts.

All views are subjective, but no matter how we may perceive Farage and/or UKIP, the clear facts remain that he is not thus far guilty of any racism, not proposed any racist policies, and has actually not only spoken out against such, but backed that up by denying known racists membership of his party, and by expelling any members that subsequently prove to be racist.

Until Farage actually is in a position of power and until he actually uses such power to implement racists policies into our constitution, then all unfounded allegations against him and all theorising, are mere 'spin' - but the same cannot be said about the well documented historical facts about the many, many failings of the main political parties and their many, many, corrupt members.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I have already stated that she is a moron who should not be in any type of official office, but just for the record; I believe that she is a low-brow who does not understand the issues of racial prejudice and she has not the intellectual ability or guile to 'Engage brain before operating mouth' and needs to GO.

As for "spin machine in full flow"; 'spin' is a double edged sword which cuts both ways,and - like a 'handgun' our view of it fully depends whether we are pointing the gun at someone or having it pointed at us.

I assume from the tone of your comment then Girth, that you sanction propaganda when it persuades opinion against Farage and UKIP, but when I point out that such propaganda is based on 'unproven allegation' summisation and 'might' and 'Probably', in contrast to the very real extensive and proven criminal and immoral acts perpetrated by the other main political parties, you deem such as 'spin'.

I dont care about Farage ansd Ukip I think they are a joke. As they are a new party they are rightly under increased scrutiny. As the issues was this ladies comments then I feel we should stick to the issue and not try to deflect into a discussion about political corruption,. IF you want that discussion then start that thread.

[arista]

This story has gone now
its the 2 old MPs all week now

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

I dont care about Farage ansd Ukip I think they are a joke. As they are a new party they are rightly under increased scrutiny. As the issues was this ladies comments then I feel we should stick to the issue and not try to deflect into a discussion about political corruption,. IF you want that discussion then start that thread.

Fair comment Girth. You got me

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by arista

This story has gone now
its the 2 old MPs all week now

Yes Arista, I agree, and this new scandal story will 'run' and 'run'.

[billy123]

Originally Posted by arista

This story has gone now
its the 2 old MPs all week now

No it hasnt gone arista it doesnt just end when you decide.
Over 5000 complaints were received about the C4 program UKIP:The first 100 days.
Well it turns out that a large portion of those complaints were generated by an email template from UKIPS far right buddies and BNP spin off party Britain first.
https://www.britainfirst.org/campaigns/

Far-right group orchestrated email campaign over Ukip TV drama
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...P=share_btn_tw

The kippers and Britain first in bed together. They deserve each other.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Its the weakest defense I've ever heard. I'd respect her more if she admitted her irrational hatred. Her phobia is as clear a case of blatant racism as we will come across for a while.

Yes......I tend to agree, I think she has invented the phobia to use to defend her obvious racism.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I totally agree with everything you say in the section which I have emboldened T.S - Totally agree.

I cannot however, agree with the rest. There is no more evidence that Farage or any of her UKIP colleagues in authority knew about her cretinous views, than there is evidence that Cameron or Milliband were aware of Rifkind or Straw's inclinations, or many of the party leaders in the historical list in my earlier post were aware of all their respective members immoral, unethical, or downright criminal predilections and acts.

All views are subjective, but no matter how we may perceive Farage and/or UKIP, the clear facts remain that he is not thus far guilty of any racism, not proposed any racist policies, and has actually not only spoken out against such, but backed that up by denying known racists membership of his party, and by expelling any members that subsequently prove to be racist.

Until Farage actually is in a position of power and until he actually uses such power to implement racists policies into our constitution, then all unfounded allegations against him and all theorising, are mere 'spin' - but the same cannot be said about the well documented historical facts about the many, many failings of the main political parties and their many, many, corrupt members.

I think that the powers that be have done a sterling job in slowly tarnishing the UKIP brand, it wouldn't surprise me if half the so called UKIP councillors were not in fact paid by person or persons unknown to get involved with UKIP simply so their right wing leanings could be exposed at a later date.

This party cannot be allowed to gain traction so says the official line, it must be seen to be tainted so we will help it on it's way with scandal after scandal in the hope that voters will be put off by their apparent right wing image.

So maybe many polls will start to show diminishing support for UKIP but this is based on voter feedback I would hope in the actual ballot booth voters still put their X in the UKIP space.

Our Political establishment must listen to us , we vote them in to do our bidding not to dictate what is best for us. It looks like they pass laws that are best for them and their paymasters - this has to stop and if UKIP can provide a short sharp shock then fine by me.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by bobnot

No it hasnt gone arista it doesnt just end when you decide.
Over 5000 complaints were received about the C4 program UKIP:The first 100 days.
Well it turns out that a large portion of those complaints were generated by an email template from UKIPS far right buddies and BNP spin off party Britain first.
https://www.britainfirst.org/campaigns/

Far-right group orchestrated email campaign over Ukip TV drama
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...P=share_btn_tw

The kippers and Britain first in bed together. They deserve each other.

"A councillor expelled by Ukip "

what part of the above are you having trouble with?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by bobnot

No it hasnt gone arista it doesnt just end when you decide.
Over 5000 complaints were received about the C4 program UKIP:The first 100 days.
Well it turns out that a large portion of those complaints were generated by an email template from UKIPS far right buddies and BNP spin off party Britain first.
https://www.britainfirst.org/campaigns/

Far-right group orchestrated email campaign over Ukip TV drama
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...P=share_btn_tw

The kippers and Britain first in bed together. They deserve each other.

Even if the figures can be proved - and according to the linked article the Guardian could not provide such proof - it still leaves almost 3,000 complaints which we must deem then to be genuine and from members of the viewing public, so while the template is an indictment of the BNP's & Britain First's unethical manipulations, the remainder of the protests received are a reflection of the genuine umbrage felt by the public at what they perceived to be a program which was totally prejudiced against UKIP.

And there is nothing to say either, of course, that Farage knew about such shady practices, was complicit in them, or even wanted or welcomed them.

Do not Far Right racist groups align themselves to the Conservative party and support them? Do not Extreme Left Wing Groups align themselves the Labour Party and support them? This does not mean that Cameron or Milliband are aware of it, or that they want or welcome it.

So there is no evidence that Farage and UKIP are really "in bed" with the BNP or Britain First.

These idiots will support whichever party has a manifesto closer to their own ideologies no matter how tenuous such a closeness is, simply because they cannot ever attain power themselves.

I don't agree with any party's manifesto in its entirety, but come Election Day, I will be forced to opt for the one party whose policies come closest to reflecting my own ideology - even if it means some other of their policies are less than ideal.

As I say, up to now, Farage has done nothing to compel that he is a racist or has racist intentions once - and if - he ever does come to power, no matter how others perceive his guilt by association because of their own rigid ideology and prejudices.

The same cannot be said for the other parties which have secreted among their members and MP's every conceivable kind of self-seeker, and pervert and deviant and cheat known to man - including covert racists - as history attests.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I see Rifkind has resigned

Still lets keep on about ex councillors

[billy123]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

"A councillor expelled by Ukip "

what part of the above are you having trouble with?

Umm the TV show in my post had nothing to do with any of the many expelled councillors
Bless you! Im not sure what part of that you are having trouble with.
Oh dear.
Maybe the inability to understand or read is a trait of kippers it would explain a lot.