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Originally Posted by Livia

I'm not a thread-maker, you might have noticed. And there's very little chance I'd make a thread about Israel knowing what the usual reaction is.

You know where Israel is situated. They have no real friends, a couple of acquaintances they're on nodding terms with, but mostly they have enemies. Hatred and attacks against Jews across the world has increased... and likewise hatred of Israel. And sooner or later we'll get around to blaming the UK for being instrumental in creating the state of Israel in the 40s... when in actual fact, regardless of whether the state had been created or not, nothing would have stopped the Jews returning to Israel.

Aaaanyhoo.... I suppose I see this from a very different angle so I will probably step out at this point.

I don't agree with some of the sentiments in this thread and I have nothing against Israel's right to exist - I appreciate that their whole modern existence has been marred by threats to that. I don't, though, think that it needs to be a straight choice between Israel and Iran, Israel and Palestine, Israel and the Arab world. IMO both sides have put up barriers to conciliation and the hardliners on each side have fed and enabled each other. Both sides should appreciate that it can't be sustainable for regional neighbours to constantly be holding hostile positions against each other. Iran could have their grievances as well. While Israel may feel surrounded they are a nuclear armed state with the backing of (arguably) the most powerful country on the planet. Iran on the other hand has been cut off from the international community and met with constant sanctions and threats. It could of course be said that their actions have deserved that but I'm not sure if it does anything other than exacerbate the divide and encourage the hardliners to a position of strength on the back of a wave of anti-Israel/America sentiment. And in turn the attitude of Ahmedinejad and the actions of Hamas etc have enabled a belligerent figure like Netanyahu rise to a position of strength and allowed him to justify things like the settlement program, the iron hand on Gaza and the indiscriminate bombing campaigns. And that in turns feeds the anti-Israel hardliners. And so on. It's a maddening cycle of violence, surely at some point or the other one side has to relent on the hostility and sabre rattling. Maybe that's not possible with Iran and others because they're so opposed to Israel's very existence. But it's got to be worth a try and would be in everyone's interests.