[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

I don't remember this song-and-dance when Blair refused point blank do take part in a debate.

That is true and there wasn't any debates nor when John Major refused to too in his time as PM.

However since then we have had in 2010, David Cameron clamouring for the debates, in the 'election campaign' time too whe he was opposition leader and really taunting Gordon Brown the then PM to stop delaying and agree to get on with the debates.

The big difference is that since 2010, we have now had the then opposition Leader,Cameron wanting the debates, the then incumbent Prime Minister,Gordon Brown agreeing to same debates in full as laid out by the broadcasters at the time.
So unlike the Major and Blair times, it has happened now and it is a bit rich for the man who championed those debates in 2010 to be being such a turncoat now.

The difference now being both opposition leaders and also a Prime Minister have already agreed since 2010 to such debates and taken part in same.

Had David Cameron not made such a fuss as to Gordon Brown taking a good amount of time to agree to the 2010 debates,then criticism of David Cameron as to the issue would be invalid.

I also stress, were this Ed Miliband who was dragging his heels as to the debates, I would be saying exactly the same about him that I am about David Cameron as to the issue.
The precedent was set in 2010,a format that David Cameron expected both Gordon Brown and Nick Clegg to take part in and accept.
They both did and that is why, from me at any rate, he is getting a right dressing down as to his what I see as his pathetic stance now.

[MTVN]

Yeah I suppose the precedent has been set now not just by the 2010 elections but also by Cameron himself considering how keen he was on them. Is one debate enough? It might have been if it was just the three main parties, a 7 way singular debate however is just likely to be a bit of a farce with too many participants and insufficient time for any of them to put forward a too full and coherent of their intentions. The broadcasters haven't helped the situation either though tbh and I do sympathise with Lord Grade's point about broadcasters playing politics and trying to dictate to the country's Prime Minister when and who he should debate with

[Kizzy]

Well that puts things in perspective doesn't it?

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Well that puts things in perspective doesn't it?

What's that a reply to?

[Kizzy]

Sorry should've quoted but was agreeing with both yours and Joeys points, the one made regarding the issue Cameron made in regard to Brown and his reluctance to commit to debates.But also yours that the media should be seen to work around the politicians and not the other way around.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Sorry should've quoted but was agreeing with both yours and Joeys points, the one made regarding the issue Cameron made in regard to Brown and his reluctance to commit to debates.But also yours that the media should be seen to work around the politicians and not the other way around.

I agree with you that MTVN made strong points as to tis too and indeed,broadcasters should not dictate to the PM or really anyone else as to these debates.

However all 3 of the debates in 2010,all took place during the election campign itself,the plan was to have 3 debates again in that period in April.
UKIP were admitted to the debates and really since then the broadcasters have, to please the PM had to include the Greens too.
The move to include the SNP and PC was for me unnecessary,yet that is one of the debates this PM is willing to take part in.

Except now, he wants it held before the official campaign starts, that makes no sense to me whatsoever,with likely no manifesto released by the parties, so no manifesto can be challenged or scrutinised really.

It would seem to me that the main change from the broadcasters is to have a head to head with David Cameron and Ed Miliband,again something David cameron was calling for but I think never expected to get agreement to.
Now he won't do that,again unless it is held well before the campaign starts,he moves the goalposts evertime something seems set up.

Fine if he doesn't want to do that and then he will have to take some stick for that stance from all he has called for before,including that head to head.

I just fail to see any point at all in holding any debate outside the official election campaign, they are called election debates,not pre-election debates.
Sadly, the only person messing the debates about is David Cameron from all I have lsited above.
So I think they should have the one debate with the 7 leaders,at the start of the official campaign after each manifesto from all parties has been presented,and leave it all there for this election.

If the broadcasters did that and pulled the rest of the planned debates, I really think David Cameron could pay pretty heavily for his stance on this, as I am sure if there was only the one debate, it would regularly be said on all news bulletins,the fact that there is only one debate becasue the PM was not willing to do any others.

That is a simple fact,that is what he has indicated,that is relevant news,in light of the fact that all other leaders were/are prepared to do whatever was suggested as to them.

[Kizzy]

'Ofcom have just confirmed that UKIP is a major party and will, at a minimum, get two party election broadcasts.
This confirms that UKIP is now a major party in British politics. Voters should now know that despite what all the other parties are going to tell them, the truth is self-evident: if you believe in Britain, and want to vote UKIP, you'll get a UKIP MP. It's great news.'

Tweeted by Farage.... who do we rely on to say who is to be given access to voice their political agenda prior to the election?.... Ofcom :/

[arista]

The PM has now agreed one 7 leader Debate
on the 2nd of April Thursday


ITV1HD

[arista]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

It will never happen...........

One 7 way debate on Thursday 2nd April
ITV1HD
now confirmed

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by arista

One 7 way debate on Thursday 2nd April
ITV1HD
now confirmed

Ok............I stand corrected.

[joeysteele]

Probably enough in the end really, he will never be able to shake off that he brought them to an end if the others go ahead without him in any way.
I hope the media don't let him forget it either.

Anyway, I for one hope he has nothing to do with any debates at the next election for hopefully the reason he is no longer PM or Leader of the Conservative party.

Being just a tiny bit fair to David Cameron, I myself did think 3 debates were too many in 2010 and I also can agree with him that they became the main media focus of the election.
However,for me he is still looking shifty and cowardly refusing to do all of them this time again.

[Kizzy]

It's been said that he wishes to maintain the illusion that he is a more capable PM than Milliband would be... and he is protecting that myth by keeping his gob firmly shut as he knows that Ed can out debate him on every topic.
Having 3 debates on 3 very different areas of competence would have been interesting, to try cover even the main issues in one debate is going to be nigh on impossible.
Which is why I believe that Cameron is getting ready to bail... he's taking the majority of British industry and infrastructure with him mind like maggie did, as a keepsake.

[arista]

[Sky News and Channel 4 are expected to confirm that
David Cameron and Ed Miliband will be interviewed separately
by Jeremy Paxman next Thursday with the show aired by both broadcasters.
The two networks have issued an appeal for people to take part
in the studio audience when they will be able to ask questions
of the two leaders in a discussion chaired by Sky News’ anchor Kay Burley.
“Assuming our plans meet with final approval from the political
parties involved, the interviews will take place in London on 26 March
and will be conducted by Jeremy Paxman,” said the appeal.
Confirmation was expected on Thursday but it is understood
there are some complications to be ironed out.
The programme would be the first of the pre-election TV events,
with ITV due to host the only debate between all seven party leaders,
hosted by Julie Etchingham, the following Thursday, on 2 April.]

http://www.theguardian.com/media/201...view-who-first

[joeysteele]

I still ask what is the point of interviewing them 'before' the election campaign has officially begun.

All you will get likely from them, is wait and see what is in the manifesto.
Being interviewed before the detail of any manifesto is known, is pointless as it cannot be scrutinised or challenged really in any way.

We have had interviews with them over the years to now, it is the election pledges and more to the point full details of the policies in the manifesto, we need to hear about now.

[arista]

This is now all Confirmed

1. Ch4HD & SkyNewsHD 9PM 26th March
the PM and Labour Leader - separately


2. ITV1HD 2nd April
All 7 Leaders including the PM Live

3. BBC1HD 16th April 5 Opposition Live
Labour
UKIP
Greens
SNP
Plaid Cymru

4. BBC1HD 30April
3 Leaders Separately "Question Time"

[MTVN]

That 'opposition leaders debate' is a funny one, it is essentially empty chairing Cameron just now with his consent

[joeysteele]

The interviews 26th March,may as well be done away with since they are being held before the election and the manifesto of each party is published.
We will learn very little there at all and that doesn't make them election interviews either since they are being held before the campaign.

The 16th April one is going to leave David Cameron sticking out lieka sore thumb by his absence in it, no matter what happens in the 7 way one.
If he has a bad 7way deabte, he has no chance to make that up in later ones.
If he does really well, it may be that debate is near forgotten about by the time polling day comes.

It will be interesting but if you are not in there fighting your corner, then speculation will just grow and grow that you were afraid to defend your own record in govt.

[arista]

"The interviews 26th March,may as well be done away with "

Maybe, but at least its Paxmen
doing the 2 debates

[arista]

Originally Posted by MTVN

That 'opposition leaders debate' is a funny one, it is essentially empty chairing Cameron just now with his consent

Not really
its all agreed

the 5 not in power battle it out

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by MTVN

That 'opposition leaders debate' is a funny one, it is essentially empty chairing Cameron just now with his consent

It is indeed,he is going to look ridiculous not being there, he should at every opportunity be taking on the opposition parties, by not being there, it could be construed that they have lots valid to say and that he has little.

He will look a total fool in my opinion.

[arista]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

It is indeed,he is going to look ridiculous not being there, he should at every opportunity be taking on the opposition parties, by not being there, it could be construed that they have lots valid to say and that he has little.

He will look a total fool in my opinion.

You do know that on 5 Leader
debate there is No Empty Chair

[JoshBB]

This could cost cameron votes - good.

[MTVN]

No official empty chair and they'll call it the 'opposition debate' but it essentially what they intended by that threat; to have a leaders debate without the Prime Minister

Makes it tough for Miliband as well seeing as he will just be the main whipping boy in Cameron and Clegg's absence, the others all quite 'anti-establishment' parties so will focus all of that on Miliband now

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

You do know that on 5 Leader
debate there is No Empty Chair

I don't care if there was an empty chair or not, that is irrelevant, the fact he is not there and everyone else is that are also serious about being in govt,is very relevant and he will look conspicuous and ridiculous by his very absence.

An empty chair however would be a good idea, since the answers would probably be the same as to him, nothing really.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by MTVN

No official empty chair and they'll call it the 'opposition debate' but it essentially what they intended by that threat; to have a leaders debate without the Prime Minister

Makes it tough for Miliband as well seeing as he will just be the main whipping boy in Cameron and Clegg's absence, the others all quite 'anti-establishment' parties so will focus all of that on Miliband now

I'm confident he'll rise to that challenge, he has what cameron lacks and that's indepth knowledge of the key issues.