[arista]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I don't care if there was an empty chair or not, that is irrelevant, the fact he is not there and everyone else is that are also serious about being in govt,is very relevant and he will look conspicuous and ridiculous by his very absence.

An empty chair however would be a good idea, since the answers would probably be the same as to him, nothing really.

I do not think you understand
this is meant to be this way
5 Opposition Live

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by arista

[Sky News and Channel 4 are expected to confirm that
David Cameron and Ed Miliband will be interviewed separately
by Jeremy Paxman next Thursday with the show aired by both broadcasters.
The two networks have issued an appeal for people to take part
in the studio audience when they will be able to ask questions
of the two leaders in a discussion chaired by Sky News’ anchor Kay Burley.
“Assuming our plans meet with final approval from the political
parties involved, the interviews will take place in London on 26 March
and will be conducted by Jeremy Paxman,” said the appeal.
Confirmation was expected on Thursday but it is understood
there are some complications to be ironed out.
The programme would be the first of the pre-election TV events,
with ITV due to host the only debate between all seven party leaders,
hosted by Julie Etchingham, the following Thursday, on 2 April.]

http://www.theguardian.com/media/201...view-who-first

Are you kidding me..... separately , interview them separately ? Seriously !!!

What sort of stupid excuse for a debate is that, can't believe Cameron is running scared of debating with Miliband , although considering the presence and charisma that Ed has coupled with his vocal eloquence I can understand why Cameron is scared at facing the colossus that is Mr Ed or Mr Wallace... Lol

Shame on Cameron what a pathetic excuse of a leader he really is...

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Are you kidding me..... separately , interview them separately ? Seriously !!!

What sort of stupid excuse for a debate is that, can't believe Cameron is running scared of debating with Miliband , although considering the presence and charisma that Ed has coupled with his vocal eloquence I can understand why Cameron is scared at facing the colossus that is Mr Ed or Mr Wallace... Lol

Shame on Cameron what a pathetic excuse of a leader he really is...

The thing is he does I think fear Ed Miliband.
I am also stunned Nick Clegg is not in the opposition one too.

Hate or like him, Ed Miliband made a superb point on the news tonight saying as to David Cameron, that David Cameron will be in the same studio, the same time and same day as him for the same sort of interview yet Cameron will not go head to head with him.

It really does beg the question why, what is David Cameron so scared of, or is it he is frightened it may get angry at times and he could slip up badly by revealing his true agenda as to what he intends to do if he were to win the election.

Whatever his pathetic reasons for not doing so, I hope as JoshBB says too, that this loses Cameron a good many votes now.
He is looking more cowardly and shifty by the day as this election campaign officially approaches.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

The thing is he does I think fear Ed Miliband.
I am also stunned Nick Clegg is not in the opposition one too.

Hate or like him, Ed Miliband made a superb point on the news tonight saying as to David Cameron, that David Cameron will be in the same studio, the same time and same day as him for the same sort of interview yet Cameron will not go head to head with him.

It really does beg the question why, what is David Cameron so scared of, or is it he is frightened it may get angry at times and he could slip up badly by revealing his true agenda as to what he intends to do if he were to win the election.

Whatever his pathetic reasons for not doing so, I hope as JoshBB says too, that this loses Cameron a good many votes now.
He is looking more cowardly and shifty by the day as this election campaign officially approaches.

Clegg's absence is strange after he said he was happy to represent the government if Cameron wouldn't, perhaps he has been sweetened up in some way to stand aside, maybe by allowing Danny Alexander to deliver his Lib Dem budget lol. I find it hard to believe he'd be ok with not participating when everyone else bar Cameron does. Supposedly the government interest will be represented in that debate so I'm interested to see how they will do it

It's a fair point about them being in the same studio on the same night. I think Cameron works better in a Q&A format, like in PMQs he can conjure up an answer to any question knowing that it will not then lead to a general discussion. In a debate format he's probably less comfortable.

[Jack_]

Why exactly have the broadcasters pandered to our PM's pathetic cowardliness? If he didn't want to take part then the other two debates should have gone ahead as normal (yes, including the head-to-head, Ed could have just been interviewed by Paxman as he is now, would've been hilarious) with him being empty chaired, I don't see why they're effectively trying to save his skin by coming up with some 'opposition debate' I mean what kind of crap is that

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Why exactly have the broadcasters pandered to our PM's pathetic cowardliness? If he didn't want to take part then the other two debates should have gone ahead as normal with him (yes, including the head-to-head, Ed could have just been interviewed by Paxman as he is now, would've been hilarious) being empty chaired, I don't see why they're effectively trying to save his skin by coming up with some 'opposition debate' I mean what kind of crap is that

I am astounded by it too, they should have just left him to look the coward he is.

[Kizzy]

I think that's screamingly obvious though now, is it enough to rock public confidence in the conservatives, I really hope so but they are as slippery as a barrel of greased eels so?
I don't think he want to win, I think the last 5yr was just a draining exercise it would be interesting to know how much the personal wealth of the cabinet has swelled in recent years.

[bitontheslide]

All this talk of cowardice and hiding by the PM is just ridiculous. He is in the spotlight every day and has been held accountable for his actions at PM's question time every week for the last 4 years.

Why can't people simply understand that while broadcasters might like to be able to control the outcome of an election, they can't. Who wins the election should not be based on 1 individuals popularity or performance on a TV run debate. Its pretty obvious really, its called democracy, not some American influenced sham.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Are you kidding me..... separately , interview them separately ? Seriously !!!

What sort of stupid excuse for a debate is that, can't believe Cameron is running scared of debating with Miliband , although considering the presence and charisma that Ed has coupled with his vocal eloquence I can understand why Cameron is scared at facing the colossus that is Mr Ed or Mr Wallace... Lol

Shame on Cameron what a pathetic excuse of a leader he really is...

Yes but they are saying Live
but not side by side

[Nedusa]

But surely if the Conservatives have done such a good job in the last 5 years, and listening to George Osbournes Budget speech one would certainly have gotten that impression.

According to Osbourne we have been on a recovery and it is going well, good times are returning wages are increasing, unemployment falling , the deficit reducing.

Surely with such news on all fronts David Cameron would be chomping at the bit to rub Milibands face in it in any one to one live debate, so why is he running scared ?

This is abject cowardice by David Cameron , a complete abdication of his prime ministership , that he would rather run away from this debate speaks volumes as to his real record in Govt in the last 5 years.

He knows he will be called to account and will have few real answers , he knows his Premiership will be pulled to pieces on live TV and so he cuts and runs.

Such cowardice will surely not go unnoticed by the electorate.

I think this one event could turn the tide against my Cameron and his merry band of self serving toffs/elites.

[Calderyon]

That´s not a lot of debates, tbh.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

All this talk of cowardice and hiding by the PM is just ridiculous. He is in the spotlight every day and has been held accountable for his actions at PM's question time every week for the last 4 years.

Why can't people simply understand that while broadcasters might like to be able to control the outcome of an election, they can't. Who wins the election should not be based on 1 individuals popularity or performance on a TV run debate. Its pretty obvious really, its called democracy, not some American influenced sham.

Exactly,David Cameron debates everyday with Milliband,so all this talk about he is "scared" is typical of Millibands childish retorts,he can only seem to get a point across by slinging mud,why labour hang on to the twonk,God knows.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Exactly,David Cameron debates everyday with Milliband,so all this talk about he is "scared" is typical of Millibands childish retorts,he can only seem to get a point across by slinging mud,why labour hang on to the twonk,God knows.

But why is he running scared of this particular debate ?

In fact he has agreed to participate in this agreed scheduled TV debate only not appear live with the labour leader... Why not ???

This is a crazy decision and will backfire on the PM no matter how much people say it is ok.

If he appears with the Labour leader every week debating the issues then why does one more appearance really matter ?

Clearly it does matter to the PM as he has taken this strange decision to appear live but separately .

He can rightly expect serious criticism for this cowardly retreat.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

All this talk of cowardice and hiding by the PM is just ridiculous. He is in the spotlight every day and has been held accountable for his actions at PM's question time every week for the last 4 years.

Why can't people simply understand that while broadcasters might like to be able to control the outcome of an election, they can't. Who wins the election should not be based on 1 individuals popularity or performance on a TV run debate. Its pretty obvious really, its called democracy, not some American influenced sham.

Oh if only that were true, sadly after watching PMQs almost every week I have yet to hear Cameron actually answer any question directly,rather than flying off in all directions of him then asking questions and raising topics not even in the original question asked.
PMQs is the worst possible advertisement for politics for me,especially since Cameron became PM.

Quite frankly,I don't understand why most of the opposition MPs of all other parties,don't just sit there in silence and let the Conservative backbenchers do their huddling up with the PM as to their regular statements rather than any questions.

Then if the opposition MPs were asked if anyone else wants to ask the PM questions,have them all loudly answer, there is no point, he never really answers any.

PMQs needs scrapping,it is an embarrassmetn to watch,it is PM questions, which means he answers the questions asked, not that he askes them or adds to the content of them.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

But why is he running scared of this particular debate ?

In fact he has agreed to participate in this agreed scheduled TV debate only not appear live with the labour leader... Why not ???

This is a crazy decision and will backfire on the PM no matter how much people say it is ok.

If he appears with the Labour leader every week debating the issues then why does one more appearance really matter ?

Clearly it does matter to the PM as he has taken this strange decision to appear live but separately .

He can rightly expect serious criticism for this cowardly retreat.

You are right, and he doesn't debate with Miliband every day either, he has about 10 minutes every wednesday where Ed Miliband is to 'ask' him questions, his response to that is to make a political speech and then ask the opposition questions.
he never has yet that I have seen and I watch this horrendous farce every week answered directly questions put to him by Miliband or in fact from most of the other opposition parties either.

Other than that, unless there is a crisis issue, he and Miliband never come face to face in the commons again any day of the week.

There is hardly,in fact any debate beteen the 2 party leaders outside of PMQs,which as I said above, is now a total embarrassment to watch and makes it clear that there is no point in even asking this PM any questions of relevance, since he always avoids answering same.

You are right further in that it is a crazy decision by Cameron to cowardly run from a head to head debate with Miliband, and I tell you this, had Ed Miliband been the one shying off, there would have howls of 'rightful' jeers and ridicule of him for doing so and he would have been called all the cowardly names under the sun too.

I really hope, and actually think it will, have many voters get very suspicious as to why he will not, what is he afraid of revealing, frightened of churning out more lies as he did in 2010 in such debates.
Not a PM to trust, his word is meaningless and as you say, if the record is that good and could stand up to scrutiny, then he would want to shout that from the rooftops every chance he could get.
AS you say rubbing Milibands face in it.

It is clear it won't stand up to challenged scrutiny and it leaves you actually fearing what his new sinister hidden aganda could be.
Especially since he has only agreed to this debate, before the campaign starts officially and before any manifesto has been published for scrutiny and challenge too.

A con man that is what he is and a very weak and cowardly one at that too.
I hope voters really wake up to the dangers of this man being PM again.
Just about anyone is better than this sidestepper and procrastinator.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

But why is he running scared of this particular debate ?

In fact he has agreed to participate in this agreed scheduled TV debate only not appear live with the labour leader... Why not ???

This is a crazy decision and will backfire on the PM no matter how much people say it is ok.

If he appears with the Labour leader every week debating the issues then why does one more appearance really matter ?

Clearly it does matter to the PM as he has taken this strange decision to appear live but separately .

He can rightly expect serious criticism for this cowardly retreat.

Maybe he prefers to get his policies and points across,without the inane drivel that Milliband spouts,all he seems to strive for is to get one up on Cameron,I have nothing against Labour btw,just Milliband,just WHY are they hanging on to him? They have a better chance of winning without him,imo.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Oh if only that were true, sadly after watching PMQs almost every week I have yet to hear Cameron actually answer any question directly,rather than flying off in all directions of him then asking questions and raising topics not even in the original question asked.
PMQs is the worst possible advertisement for politics for me,especially since Cameron became PM.

Quite frankly,I don't understand why most of the opposition MPs of all other parties,don't just sit there in silence and let the Conservative backbenchers do their huddling up with the PM as to their regular statements rather than any questions.

Then if the opposition MPs were asked if anyone else wants to ask the PM questions,have them all loudly answer, there is no point, he never really answers any.

PMQs needs scrapping,it is an embarrassmetn to watch,it is PM questions, which means he answers the questions asked, not that he askes them or adds to the content of them.

But you are missing the point, that is the agreed democratic process for holding the government accountable. The fact that Miliband is completely inept in making the time count just shows him up for what he is - incompetent.

We have all seen politicians avoid answering difficult questions, they all do it, they would do it in any TV debate too.

The other point I tried to make is quite simple. In America, the focus is on an individual, the one who will be the next president, but in the UK we are electing hundreds of individuals, therefore it is of little relevance how a group of 7 or whatever perform on a TV debate as it doesn't reflect the breadth and depth of the election. It is nothing more than a broadcaster fuelled event that tries to influence the electoral process in a disproportionate fashion.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

But you are missing the point, that is the agreed democratic process for holding the government accountable. The fact that Miliband is completely inept in making the time count just shows him up for what he is - incompetent.

We have all seen politicians avoid answering difficult questions, they all do it, they would do it in any TV debate too.

The other point I tried to make is quite simple. In America, the focus is on an individual, the one who will be the next president, but in the UK we are electing hundreds of individuals, therefore it is of little relevance how a group of 7 or whatever perform on a TV debate as it doesn't reflect the breadth and depth of the election. It is nothing more than a broadcaster fuelled event that tries to influence the electoral process in a disproportionate fashion.

I agree that I would like to see the fact we elect a party to Govt; as the main focus of elections in the UK.
I hate that the media concentrate on a few individuals rather than the whole party
We are not electing a president.
From what I have seen, most PMs have often little or no real say anyway in their govts; actions.,they are just the first face as to that.
They are always having to set out to appease the noisiest and most forceful of their backbenchers.

I made this point a while back too, I myself can never vote for Ed Miliband or David Cameron, the few thousand of voters in their seats elect them. Were the Conservatives to get 326 seats or Labour to get 326 seats but Cameron and Miliband actually lose their seats.
There would still be a Conservative or Labour govt; with a new elected leader from their parties,not from the voters.

I have to disagree in part with some of your post, on issues like the bedroom tax, the energy charges,the NHS and the sick and disabled, Ed Miliband has often set the agenda on those issues.
Upon raising them at PMQs,he then got a longwinded speech from Cameron about what Labour did in govt; then waffle about other things unrelated with no direct answer given to any of the valid points put.

If I were Ed Miliband,I would leave a note in the commons on wednesday's with an I hope it goes well for you today, as really asking Cameron questions is pointless.
Recently he has got even worse so in my view, I would treat PMQs for what it has become, a farce and a total waste of a politicians time under this PM.
He used to really taunt Gordon Brown when he evaded answers,which most PMs do a bit of the time,not constantly however like Cameron does now.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

But you are missing the point, that is the agreed democratic process for holding the government accountable. The fact that Miliband is completely inept in making the time count just shows him up for what he is - incompetent.

We have all seen politicians avoid answering difficult questions, they all do it, they would do it in any TV debate too.

The other point I tried to make is quite simple. In America, the focus is on an individual, the one who will be the next president, but in the UK we are electing hundreds of individuals, therefore it is of little relevance how a group of 7 or whatever perform on a TV debate as it doesn't reflect the breadth and depth of the election. It is nothing more than a broadcaster fuelled event that tries to influence the electoral process in a disproportionate fashion.

No....... Think I am gonna side with Joey on this one, PMQ's have mutated into a shockingly uninforming carnival. Never a straight answer if an answer at all, all theatre and mock melodrama, PMQ's is exciting to watch but not if you are expecting a serious political discussion.

The Leaders debate could have allowed time for serious sensible questions and answers and would allow both leaders to really defend their positions and manifestos.

Assuming of course the debate is held after the Manifestos have been published.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

No....... Think I am gonna side with Joey on this one, PMQ's have mutated into a shockingly uninforming carnival. Never a straight answer if an answer at all, all theatre and mock melodrama, PMQ's is exciting to watch but not if you are expecting a serious political discussion.

The Leaders debate could have allowed time for serious sensible questions and answers and would allow both leaders to really defend their positions and manifestos.

Assuming of course the debate is held after the Manifestos have been published.

That is the real issue Nedusa, agree,, to be able to put under scrutiny and challenge the manifesto 'details' of each party.
Often the 'details' of policies open up a lot more questioning as to them.

This is really what David Cameron seems to be running away from,the only actual election debate he is taking part in, is the 7 way leaders one, with 7 leaders there.
As MTVN said, the time limits on each question and answers will be limited.
So he knows he can likely 'bluff' his way on that one more than the others, and he certainly would have far more detailed and in depth questioning in a head to head debate with Miliband only.

PMQs, is in no way holding this PM to account for anything,he uses it as a stage to do anything but answer relevant questions.
We hear more from him at PMQs about what Labour were doing 5 to 18 years ago in govt; than any answers to the questions now asked of him.

I've talked to several people yesterday and today and they say the only reason he has refused to do all the original debates is because he probably has something to hide, that he'd rather not be made known.
That is a pretty good summing up I would say.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

That is the real issue Nedusa, agree,, to be able to put under scrutiny and challenge the manifesto 'details' of each party.
Often the 'details' of policies open up a lot more questioning as to them.

This is really what David Cameron seems to be running away from,the only actual election debate he is taking part in, is the 7 way leaders one, with 7 leaders there.
As MTVN said, the time limits on each question and answers will be limited.
So he knows he can likely 'bluff' his way on that one more than the others, and he certainly would have far more detailed and in depth questioning in a head to head debate with Miliband only.

PMQs, is in no way holding this PM to account for anything,he uses it as a stage to do anything but answer relevant questions.
We hear more from him at PMQs about what Labour were doing 5 to 18 years ago in govt; than any answers to the questions now asked of him.

I've talked to several people yesterday and today and they say the only reason he has refused to do all the original debates is because he probably has something to hide, that he'd rather not be made known.
That is a pretty good summing up I would say.

I totally agree, it would be exposed as failing on each and every pre election policy promise as well as the countless failures and unfair undemocratic change made in the last 5yrs.

[bitontheslide]

PMQ's has been that way as long as I can remember, and thats going back a long way now to Ted Heaths era and before. PMQ's is a scripted affair. The government is given the questions that will be asked prior to the event in order to prepare properly.

Again, I say people are missing the point. Whatever faults there are with the current PMQ's, it is the democratic process of accountabilty. If it needs reform, thats another debate. My point, and I shall make it for the last time is that live TV debates are not part of the democratic process, and the reason they are being held before the official campaign start date is if they were during campaigning they would need to conform with guidelines from the electoral standards commission, at the moment, they don't.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

PMQ's has been that way as long as I can remember, and thats going back a long way now to Ted Heaths era and before. PMQ's is a scripted affair. The government is given the questions that will be asked prior to the event in order to prepare properly.

Again, I say people are missing the point. Whatever faults there are with the current PMQ's, it is the democratic process of accountabilty. If it needs reform, thats another debate. My point, and I shall make it for the last time is that live TV debates are not part of the democratic process, and the reason they are being held before the official campaign start date is if they were during campaigning they would need to conform with guidelines from the electoral standards commission, at the moment, they don't.

That is true to a point but I have been watching recently old clips of Margaret Thatcher, Major, Blair and Brown at PMQs and they did answer the relevant points far more and usually sticking to the topic in hand too,than this PM.