[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Josy

Actually Kirk, the Zeitgeist documentaries made by Peter Joseph are NOT made for profit at all.

And they concentrate on a hell of a lot more than religion, iirc (it's been a few years since I watched) only part one concentrates on religion but that's just a tiny bit of the message they are trying to get across to people so to say it's for the purpose of attacking Christianity is quite frankly '100% Baloney' in your own words and shows you have no real knowledge of them.

In fact the one message the producers attempt to get out throughout the movies is that everything is geared towards a 'one world order' including manufactured wars, corrupt bankers and so on.

Regardless if you believe everything the producers put out there, for a lot of people this movie will raise a few questions.

Peter Joseph directed Zetgeist, Josy, and Dan Brown and Acharya S produced it.

Peter Joseph is not even his real name - something which he refuses to divulge.

I am aware of the series Josy and familiar with their claims and message, and I also know that Religion is but one small element of it, but I was specifically responding to Niamh's and Ramsay's posts which in turn both dealt specifically with the Jesus/Mithras/Horus claims, so I did not concern myself with the main 'New World Order' theme as I did not deem it relevant.

Years ago, I bought certain books which included; 'The Illuminoids: Secret Societies and Political Paranoia' by Neal Wilgus, and 'A New World Order: The Ancient Plan of Secret Societies' by William Still - among others - and I became familiar with the nucleus of ideas which 'Peter Joseph' has built upon.

I recognise the truth in a lot of these theories and accepted them then and still do now, but I also reject other elements which did not 'pass muster' when cross referenced with various other sources - sources which just did not merely 'refute' but gave irrefutable checkable factual evidence to support their 'debunking'.

I believe in Jesus as The Christ but I do not actively preach or try to convert anyone else because I am not bothered - as long as I KNOW what I know, I do not care what beliefs others may have. Yet, for me to sit back and do or say nothing when my beliefs are being ridiculed or mocked or Christianity is being claimed to be false means that I am legitimising being regarded as a 'misguided fool' for being a Christian or for believing in a 'fictitious character', or 'myth' or worse.

Such claims that Christianity or Jesus is a myth is particularly irritating when the corroboration which is used to justify such claims is nothing more than falsehood and fabrication and deliberate deceit.

Should I sit back and remain silent then?

If my response sometimes comes across as antagonistic or excessively intolerant, then I apologise, but it should be borne in mind that I am human, and sometimes I get annoyed and weary by the - definite - anti-Christian ethos on here. There would be a huge outcry if Islam and the Prophet Muhammad was continually 'bashed' in the same manner as Jesus and Christianity.

I am passive not pro-active as far as my beliefs are concerned and I do not enjoy any type of discussion on here concerning Christianity, because I just cannot win. If I produced Jesus himself it would not alter certain mindsets who would still believe what they want to believe.

Yet I cannot just sit back either and let attacks on my faith go unanswered - especially when the arguments for justifying such attacks are based upon nothing more than fallacy.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Peter Joseph directed Zetgeist, Josy, and Dan Brown and Acharya S produced it.

Peter Joseph is not even his real name - something which he refuses to divulge.

I am aware of the series Josy and familiar with their claims and message, and I also know that Religion is but one small element of it, but I was specifically responding to Niamh's and Ramsay's posts which in turn both dealt specifically with the Jesus/Mithras/Horus claims, so I did not concern myself with the main 'New World Order' theme as I did not deem it relevant.

Years ago, I bought certain books which included; 'The Illuminoids: Secret Societies and Political Paranoia' by Neal Wilgus, and 'A New World Order: The Ancient Plan of Secret Societies' by William Still - among others - and I became familiar with the nucleus of ideas which 'Peter Joseph' has built upon.

I recognise the truth in a lot of these theories and accepted them then and still do now, but I also reject other elements which did not 'pass muster' when cross referenced with various other sources - sources which just did not merely 'refute' but gave irrefutable checkable factual evidence to support their 'debunking'.

I believe in Jesus as The Christ but I do not actively preach or try to convert anyone else because I am not bothered - as long as I KNOW what I know, I do not care what beliefs others may have. Yet, for me to sit back and do or say nothing when my beliefs are being ridiculed or mocked or Christianity is being claimed to be false means that I am legitimising being regarded as a 'misguided fool' for being a Christian or for believing in a 'fictitious character', or 'myth' or worse.

Such claims that Christianity or Jesus is a myth is particularly irritating when the corroboration which is used to justify such claims is nothing more than falsehood and fabrication and deliberate deceit.

Should I sit back and remain silent then?

If my response sometimes comes across as antagonistic or excessively intolerant, then I apologise, but it should be borne in mind that I am human, and sometimes I get annoyed and weary by the - definite - anti-Christian ethos on here. There would be a huge outcry if Islam and the Prophet Muhammad was continually 'bashed' in the same manner as Jesus and Christianity.

I am passive not pro-active as far as my beliefs are concerned and I do not enjoy any type of discussion on here concerning Christianity, because I just cannot win. If I produced Jesus himself it would not alter certain mindsets who would still believe what they want to believe.

Yet I cannot just sit back either and let attacks on my faith go unanswered - especially when the arguments for justifying such attacks are based upon nothing more than fallacy.

I've actually searched loads on this and I can't find Dan Brownes name connected to it anywhere. All I can see when i search is written, directed and produced by Peter Joesph. Also in regards to his name as far as I can see Peter Joseph is his real name, his first and middle name rather than first and surname

http://peterjoseph.info/peter-joseph-biography-updated/

[Josy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Peter Joseph directed Zetgeist, Josy, and Dan Brown and Acharya S produced it.

Peter Joseph is not even his real name - something which he refuses to divulge.

I am aware of the series Josy and familiar with their claims and message, and I also know that Religion is but one small element of it, but I was specifically responding to Niamh's and Ramsay's posts which in turn both dealt specifically with the Jesus/Mithras/Horus claims, so I did not concern myself with the main 'New World Order' theme as I did not deem it relevant.

Years ago, I bought certain books which included; 'The Illuminoids: Secret Societies and Political Paranoia' by Neal Wilgus, and 'A New World Order: The Ancient Plan of Secret Societies' by William Still - among others - and I became familiar with the nucleus of ideas which 'Peter Joseph' has built upon.

I recognise the truth in a lot of these theories and accepted them then and still do now, but I also reject other elements which did not 'pass muster' when cross referenced with various other sources - sources which just did not merely 'refute' but gave irrefutable checkable factual evidence to support their 'debunking'.

I believe in Jesus as The Christ but I do not actively preach or try to convert anyone else because I am not bothered - as long as I KNOW what I know, I do not care what beliefs others may have. Yet, for me to sit back and do or say nothing when my beliefs are being ridiculed or mocked or Christianity is being claimed to be false means that I am legitimising being regarded as a 'misguided fool' for being a Christian or for believing in a 'fictitious character', or 'myth' or worse.

Such claims that Christianity or Jesus is a myth is particularly irritating when the corroboration which is used to justify such claims is nothing more than falsehood and fabrication and deliberate deceit.

Should I sit back and remain silent then?

If my response sometimes comes across as antagonistic or excessively intolerant, then I apologise, but it should be borne in mind that I am human, and sometimes I get annoyed and weary by the - definite - anti-Christian ethos on here. There would be a huge outcry if Islam and the Prophet Muhammad was continually 'bashed' in the same manner as Jesus and Christianity.

I am passive not pro-active as far as my beliefs are concerned and I do not enjoy any type of discussion on here concerning Christianity, because I just cannot win. If I produced Jesus himself it would not alter certain mindsets who would still believe what they want to believe.

Yet I cannot just sit back either and let attacks on my faith go unanswered - especially when the arguments for justifying such attacks are based upon nothing more than fallacy.

Dan Brown and Acharya S have nothing at all to do with Zeitgeist The Movie or Addendum? I'm confused where you are getting that info from tbh because it was written, produced, directed and edited by Peter Joseph.

As someone that was baptised, made first confession, communion and was then confirmed as a Roman Catholic I can honestly say that studying certain things, watching documentaries (a long time before Zeitgeist even came about) and basically finding my own information online has certainly opened my eyes a lot and I feel that in a way there is some brain washing goes on in schools, that's why I think it's a great thing that parents can choose whether to send their children to a religious school or opt for a non denominational.

Even though I was brought up as a Catholic though, discussion like this does not bother me one bit, if you feel you can't win then you don't have to take part but let others have their own beliefs, for you to tell another member to stop pushing the Zeitgeist movie, that it was bollocks and then go on to spam your own links of what you believe to be fact was extremely hypocritical IMO.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Josy

Dan Brown and Acharya S have nothing at all to do with Zeitgeist The Movie or Addendum? I'm confused where you are getting that info from tbh because it was written, produced, directed and edited by Peter Joseph.

As someone that was baptised, made first confession, communion and was then confirmed as a Roman Catholic I can honestly say that studying certain things, watching documentaries (a long time before Zeitgeist even came about) and basically finding my own information online has certainly opened my eyes a lot and I feel that in a way there is some brain washing goes on in schools, that's why I think it's a great thing that parents can choose whether to send their children to a religious school or opt for a non denominational.

Even though I was brought up as a Catholic though, discussion like this does not bother me one bit, if you feel you can't win then you don't have to take part but let others have their own beliefs, for you to tell another member to stop pushing the Zeitgeist movie, that it was bollocks and then go on to spam your own links of what you believe to be fact was extremely hypocritical IMO.

I am truly sorry that you feel I am a hypocrite and also that I was misunderstood about telling Ramsay not to keep plugging Zeitgeist, because I like Ramsay and did not want him to later feel foolish when it was revealed that Zeitgeist is built upon fallacy - which it is.

I will not continue to try to explain myself - because it is futile, so I will bow out, but apologise for any unanswered questions asked of me which may be left 'hanging'.

[Josy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I am truly sorry that you feel I am a hypocrite and also that I was misunderstood about telling Ramsay not to keep plugging Zeitgeist, because I like Ramsay and did not want him to later feel foolish when it was revealed that Zeitgeist is built upon fallacy - which it is.

I will not continue to try to explain myself - because it is futile, so I will bow out, but apologise for any unanswered questions asked of me which may be left 'hanging'.

Please don't twist what I actually posted Kirk, I said I felt your actions ie telling Karl not to plug something he believes then go on to spam the links that you believe in four different posts to be hypocritical.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Josy

Please don't twist what I actually posted Kirk, I said I felt your actions ie telling Karl not to plug something he believes then go on to spam the links that you believe in four different posts to be hypocritical.

Josy, as one who knows far better than most what it's like to be misinterpreted or have his posts 'twisted', I will rephrase what I wrote so that it better conveys the meaning which I intended.

I am sorry that you feel I was being a hypocrite in this case.

I try to never post without providing evidence for my contentions in those posts Josy, and it is no different in this case. I elected to rebut Zeitgeist and so pasted a few links out of many which I believe corroborate my claims in my rebuttal with facts and logic.

Ramsay actually did politely ask me what I found or thought was wrong in the video, so I responded and provided the links which is both polite and fair.

If that is hypocritical of me, then it was not my intention and I apologise.

[Josy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Josy, as one who knows far better than most what it's like to be misinterpreted or have his posts 'twisted', I will rephrase what I wrote so that it better conveys the meaning which I intended.

I am sorry that you feel I was being a hypocrite in this case.

I try to never post without providing evidence for my contentions in those posts Josy, and it is no different in this case. I elected to rebut Zeitgeist and so pasted a few links out of many which I believe corroborate my claims in my rebuttal with facts and logic.

Ramsay actually did politely ask me what I found or thought was wrong in the video, so I responded and provided the links which is both polite and fair.

If that is hypocritical of me, then it was not my intention and I apologise.

You had already posted the same links three times before Karl asked you what you found wrong with the movie though Kirk.

Getting back to the topic at hand..

I think now there is so much information freely available to research on the internet etc, people are becoming a lot more aware of things like religion, having their eyes opened to a lot and realising that maybe we shouldn't always just believe what were are told to.

[kirklancaster]

QUOTE JOSY: "You had already posted the same links three times before Karl asked you what you found wrong with the movie though Kirk.[/B]

Not so in actuality Josy - I do not know if you have the technological means to check, but I actually went back into my responses as an afterthought and edited them in order to post the links. If you look back at my posts you will see that Ramsay asked the question at 12:12 AM. and I actually answered him with links at 1.22 am. I then edited the earlier posts to paste in the links at 1,.23 am, 1.23 am, and I think 1.24 am - all AFTER I responded to Ramsay, and hardly giving me time to time to compose individual posts if I was not telling the truth.

"Getting back to the topic at hand..

I think now there is so much information freely available to research on the internet etc, people are becoming a lot more aware of things like religion, having their eyes opened to a lot and realising that maybe we shouldn't always just believe what were are told to."

Exactly my point because this applies as much to anti-Religious articles as it does pro-Religious ones, which is why I responded as I did - that we definitely shouldn't believe everything we are told or what we see or read or watch, without questioning and further research and cross referencing.

I am quite sure that were I to post a lengthy article on 'The Case For Jesus As The Messiah' but unbeknown to me news had broken on the internet that a tomb had been discovered in Jerusalem which contained an intact ossuary complete with bones and an inscription verified as; These are the remains of Yeshua of Nazareth, son of Joseph and Mary, brother of James, who was crucified in the reign of Tiberius etc' - then I am quite sure that my post would be rapidly followed by a dozen or more rebuttal responses

I believe that the first link I provided competently debunks the Jesus/Mithras/Horus claim part of the Zeitgeists movie and my use of it is no different to the above in that the intention was to say; "Don't believe everything you read".