[bots]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If Mandelson liked him I'm suspicious.

Yep, why they dragged him out again this leadership campaign is completely beyond me

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Apparently the press were even doorstepping his girlfriend's 102 year old grandmother

I actually find that despicable under any circumstances.

Anyone would expect much greater attention when running for high office but this is a disgrace if correct.

I adored my Grandmother, she only reached her 80s but I would be horrified if even she had been drawn into media attention as to anything I may have done or set out to do in life.

[bots]

The press just don't have any morals at all these days. What scandal is an old woman going to know. Harassment of any family members should be made an offence.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

The press just don't have any morals at all these days. What scandal is an old woman going to know. Harassment of any family members should be made an offence.

I 100% agree with that,I would be absolutely furious, had it been my Grandmother, girlfriend's Grandmother or even just a friend's Grandmother.

Far from being any better or in any way more responsible after the scandals and inquiry into the press, the press seem to be actually getting even worse.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by the truth

I dont like to say I told you so but.......lol
You should listen to the truth more often

No thanks, you said he had a vile personality was arrogant.

Firstly.I don't mind some arrogance in politicians but as to him having a vile personality, well I will never agree with that.
So really you haven't with respect, told me anything then or now, I can agree with.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Not thanks, you said he had a vile personality was arrogant.

Firstly.I don't mind some arrogance in politicians but as to him having a vile personality, well I will never agree with that.
So really you haven't with respect, told me anything then or now, I can agree with.

lol I made in clear he would never get anywhere, you seemed to think he had huge potential as a leader....cant you even be a good sport when you get it hopelessly wrong? as for this sudden caring for his old granny from new labour fans, where was the compassion for the 1000+victims of stafford hospital, the endless nhs cover ups, the 25000 per annum who died under their watch from undiagnosed blood clots, the mass spread of mrsa across the nhs, the spate of unofficial do not resuscitate decisions not discussed with families, the billions lost to the nhs from failure to claim back insurance

The middle management and trusts wasting millions, the almost impossible difficulty of getting scanned, the endless labour stealth taxes , robbing from the poorest and parking charges in nhs hospitals etc etc the sell out to europe making endless more laws and making life ever more intolerable, the billions blair gave back in the rebate, the massive youth unemployment rates, oh and the 160000+ abortions a year where parents felt rushed and felt they werent given options and support, the bankrupt economy the cutbacks down to their bankruptcy waste and mismanagement, the gap between rich and poorer bigger than for 200 years?. oh and 1 million dead iraqis....where is the new labour compassion on all that eh?....this new labour compassion is very selective and very biased......dont worry the bones of the skeletons in chukas cupboard will soon be laid bare by those nasty reporters who dare report the truth....the alastair campbells of this world prefer to subdue all discussion and bury the truth under dodgy dossiers

[the truth]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

The press just don't have any morals at all these days. What scandal is an old woman going to know. Harassment of any family members should be made an offence.

they may be scum but better a society with a free press than new labour destroying censoring free speech and free press.....how do you think wed expose the mp expenses scandals and all the other stinking corruption they get up to

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by the truth

lol I made in clear he would never get anywhere, you seemed to think he had huge potential as a leader....cant you even be a good sport when you get it hopelessly wrong? as for this sudden caring for his old granny from new labour fans, where was the compassion for the 1000+victims of stafford hospital, the endless nhs cover ups, the 25000 per annum who died under their watch from undiagnosed blood clots, the mass spread of mrsa across the nhs, the spate of unofficial do not resuscitate decisions not discussed with families, the billions lost to the nhs from failure to claim back insurance

The middle management and trusts wasting millions, the almost impossible difficulty of getting scanned, the endless labour stealth taxes , robbing from the poorest and parking charges in nhs hospitals etc etc the sell out to europe making endless more laws and making life ever more intolerable, the billions blair gave back in the rebate, the massive youth unemployment rates, oh and the 160000+ abortions a year where parents felt rushed and felt they werent given options and support, the bankrupt economy the cutbacks down to their bankruptcy waste and mismanagement, the gap between rich and poorer bigger than for 200 years?. oh and 1 million dead iraqis....where is the new labour compassion on all that eh?....this new labour compassion is very selective and very biased......dont worry the bones of the skeletons in chukas cupboard will soon be laid bare by those nasty reporters who dare report the truth....the alastair campbells of this world prefer to subdue all discussion and bury the truth under dodgy dossiers

Look, all you want to do is be so outrageous you get people to argue,I did this the other night with you and got absolutely nowhere so I refuse to rise to the bait again.

You are the one who is usually the most uncompromising,I have many times agreed with you in the past and likely will at times in the future.
When, you don't go on every thread spouting out your grievances on subjects not even related to the thread in anyway at all.
Lord man, you are on about Iraq and the NHS even on here.

I get, you are someone who has seen and had bad experiences across a range of events and feel strong anger for them and who you rightly or wrongly blame for those events.
I understand that.
It doesn't make you always right however and so it is pointless to debate with you.

Also, as to the inference of the Grandmother possible incident,you are wrong again, it is said that it was his Girlfriend's 102 year old Grandmother,not his.

Now, whether that is true or not doesn't matter at this time.
If it is true however, I was brought up to respect my Grandparents.
You may think it perfectly fine as to such an action by the media, if it is revealed it did occur, however I never would agree that was right for anyone, in any circumstances.

I do think he had great potential as a leader, you don't, fair enough.
Mine is in the word 'think', you always 'know.
I'd rather give people the benefit of the doubt when I can.

[Crimson Dynamo]

its obvious he is a fragile man and has no place in a leader challenge

its good news that he has been found out before it was too late

[bots]

There is a lot more to this withdrawal than meets the eye. That seems pretty obvious. I hope some further clarification is provided at some point because I would hate to think that someone has been hounded in to standing down by the press/opponents in his own party or combination of the two. Something doesn't smell right

[the truth]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Look, all you want to do is be so outrageous you get people to argue,I did this the other night with you and got absolutely nowhere so I refuse to rise to the bait again.

You are the one who is usually the most uncompromising,I have many times agreed with you in the past and likely will at times in the future.
When, you don't go on every thread spouting out your grievances on subjects not even related to the thread in anyway at all.
Lord man, you are on about Iraq and the NHS even on here.

I get, you are someone who has seen and had bad experiences across a range of events and feel strong anger for them and who you rightly or wrongly blame for those events.
I understand that.
It doesn't make you always right however and so it is pointless to debate with you.

Also, as to the inference of the Grandmother possible incident,you are wrong again, it is said that it was his Girlfriend's 102 year old Grandmother,not his.

Now, whether that is true or not doesn't matter at this time.
If it is true however, I was brought up to respect my Grandparents.
You may think it perfectly fine as to such an action by the media, if it is revealed it did occur, however I never would agree that was right for anyone, in any circumstances.

I do think he had great potential as a leader, you don't, fair enough.
Mine is in the word 'think', you always 'know.
I'd rather give people the benefit of the doubt when I can.

the benefit of the doubt like we did with tony bliar? one day youll come to the conclusion new labour was pure evil.....why wait 20 years to realise that fact why not realise it now?

[arista]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I think it is hard to measure at first how much pressure will be brought into play when you seek the leadership of a party, it is likely why few who would make really good leaders actually do throw themselves into the contest.

He said he would run but had until June 10th I believe it is,to be fully confirmed as a candidate.
If little has been found against him in a whole election campaign as when he could have been the possible future Business secretary, then I doubt there is much to find in his life that would be really damaging.
The Sun, Mail and Telegraph could have easily done so,so that is an unfair presumption I would say.

He has withdrawn quickly, I am sad as to that.
However if he has already had the vision of how much his life is to be turned totally upside down,coupled with the announcement yesterday that it will be a 'longer' campaign for leader,rather than a short one,taking until September now.
That may have had him think, whoa,enough is enough.

He can actually,in my view, do a greater job, probably bringing businesses back to Labour as Shadow Business secretary than maybe he could ever do as Leader.

Plenty time also now too, for another chance to come in the future for him too.

If he lasts


I think he is in the wrong party
he should be a Conservative

[kirklancaster]

QUOTE: THE TRUTH: "...as for this sudden caring for his old granny from new labour fans, where was the compassion for the 1000+victims of stafford hospital, the endless nhs cover ups, the 25000 per annum who died under their watch from undiagnosed blood clots, the mass spread of mrsa across the nhs, the spate of unofficial do not resuscitate decisions not discussed with families, the billions lost to the nhs from failure to claim back insurance"

Not forgetting; Where was the Liberal Left Wing outrage when the mob of moronic in-breeds violently disrupted Nigel Farage's 'quiet peaceful' Sunday Lunch? Where was the 'caring' for Farage and his terrified wife and children then?

The hypocrisy of the Left makes me puke.

Their unflinching denial of ESTABLISHED FACTS frightens me.

Chukka Obamamunna is an arrogant, overly ambitious, publicity loving, snake-oily egotist who is so far up his own anal orifice that he has to push his fingers up it to be able to chew nervously on his fingernails - something which he will be doing far more frequently now since he has been so rapidly deflated.

As leader, he would have been a liability for the Labour Party in the long run and they are better off without him.

[bots]

I would never describe myself as left wing, I equally denounced what happened to Nigel and his family, as did many if not all the posters who have commented in this thread, so not sure who these left hypocrites are

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I would never describe myself as left wing, I equally denounced what happened to Nigel and his family, as did many if not all the posters who have commented in this thread, so not sure who these left hypocrites are

I am from the left now, as you know.
I also condemned the harrasment of Farage and his family.regularly too, not just once.

Very sadly, Kirklancaster has chosen the path to condemn by generalising 'all' people from the left.
The problem is there are good and bad on the left and right, even centre,of politics.
None have the full hold on moral high ground.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by the truth

the benefit of the doubt like we did with tony bliar? one day youll come to the conclusion new labour was pure evil.....why wait 20 years to realise that fact why not realise it now?

Oh for goodness sake I didn't like Tony Blair.

However,he did many good things while PM, the minimum wage introduction,increasing winter fuel payments for pensioners,increasing the rate for cold weather payments for the elderly sick and disabled.
Introducing pension credit and yes, investing in the NHS, because when he came to power, wards were closed because they were no Nurses to man them,just to name some.

Evil is a ridiculous word, so I won't even bother to respond to such a hysterical outburst there.

He did wrong on Iraq, that is all I would question him on,however none of any of that, has any bearing on Chuka Ummunah,he wasn't even an MP when Tony Blair was PM.
In fact he wasn't when Gordon Brown was either.

Also If the electorate never forgave parties for doing some wrong when in govt;then we would never ever have a govt; of likely any party again.

I am really sorry to say but sometimes I cannot believe you are serious.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I would never describe myself as left wing, I equally denounced what happened to Nigel and his family, as did many if not all the posters who have commented in this thread, so not sure who these left hypocrites are

I specifically stated Left Wing, if you do not identify with that description Then why respond?

The degree of 'outrage' I refer to - like a lot of IS atrocities - was muted at best and totally lacking at worst.

I was not just referring to this thread topic when I referred to hypocrisy and will post a fully comprehensive post on the subject later on a new thread, so perhaps you can 'take me to task' then?

In any event, The Truth's post which I commented upon on this thread contains a lot of truth.

[Kizzy]

And where is the denouncement of the government minister being tried for human rights offences currently?... or the right wing media slurring deceased members of politicians families?... or decisions taken without public consultation to sell off nationalised companies losing billions in public funds?...or removing human rights afforded following years of campaigning and sacrifice by generations of people in the UK?...the

And we are meant to collectively throw our hands up over a handful of demonstrators in a country pub? I think there's a serious lack of perspective in this.

[MTVN]

Well IDS isn't being tried is he

[Kizzy]

Sorry I meant investigated.

'The United Nations has launched an investigation into whether Iain Duncan Smith's disability benefit changes have led to "grave or systemic violations" of disabled people's human rights.

The UN's Committee on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities (CRPD), which is carrying out the unprecedented inquiry, has the power to launch a formal probe if it receives "reliable information" that human rights violations have occurred in a country signed up to the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities (UNCRPD).

This comes after a report last month by the Just Fair coalition suggested that the UK had descended from being an international leader in disability rights to being in danger of becoming a "systematic violator of these same rights".

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014...n_5727580.html



'The Department for Work and Pensions has been ordered to disclose the number of Incapacity Benefit and ESA claimants who have died between November 2011 and May 2014.'

The ruling comes from the Information Commissioner after an appeal by Vox Political‘s Mike Sivier.

But it seems likely to have been delayed – possibly for political reasons. If the number of deaths has been high, then it would generate a backlash against the Conservative and Liberal Democrat parties that presided over them in the Coalition Government.'

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/0...elated-deaths/

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/0...-the-election/

http://www.welfareweekly.com/dwp-fac...enefit-delays/

[bots]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I specifically stated Left Wing, if you do not identify with that description Then why respond?

The degree of 'outrage' I refer to - like a lot of IS atrocities - was muted at best and totally lacking at worst.

I was not just referring to this thread topic when I referred to hypocrisy and will post a fully comprehensive post on the subject later on a new thread, so perhaps you can 'take me to task' then?

In any event, The Truth's post which I commented upon on this thread contains a lot of truth.

You did jump into this thread where I had just posted stating that I thought it was wrong that the press had targeted family members. Of course I'm going to respond to your sweeping outburst.

[MTVN]

Well it looks like no Sunday front page but the DM website has its main story about Chuka being a member of an exclusive London club where they eat Ł150 steaks and drink Ł4k cognac: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...contender.html

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

QUOTE: THE TRUTH: "...as for this sudden caring for his old granny from new labour fans, where was the compassion for the 1000+victims of stafford hospital, the endless nhs cover ups, the 25000 per annum who died under their watch from undiagnosed blood clots, the mass spread of mrsa across the nhs, the spate of unofficial do not resuscitate decisions not discussed with families, the billions lost to the nhs from failure to claim back insurance"

Not forgetting; Where was the Liberal Left Wing outrage when the mob of moronic in-breeds violently disrupted Nigel Farage's 'quiet peaceful' Sunday Lunch? Where was the 'caring' for Farage and his terrified wife and children then?

The hypocrisy of the Left makes me puke.

Their unflinching denial of ESTABLISHED FACTS frightens me.

Chukka Obamamunna is an arrogant, overly ambitious, publicity loving, snake-oily egotist who is so far up his own anal orifice that he has to push his fingers up it to be able to chew nervously on his fingernails - something which he will be doing far more frequently now since he has been so rapidly deflated.

As leader, he would have been a liability for the Labour Party in the long run and they are better off without him.

That 'obamamunna' comment is actually kinda racist. :/

[MTVN]

Why? He has often been compared to Obama and has even tried to foster that comparison himself

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I am from the left now, as you know.
I also condemned the harrasment of Farage and his family.regularly too, not just once.

Very sadly, Kirklancaster has chosen the path to condemn by generalising 'all' people from the left.
The problem is there are good and bad on the left and right, even centre,of politics.
None have the full hold on moral high ground.

I'm left-wing and I condemned the disruption of Nigel's family meal as well - it's disgusting that you cannot have a nice family outing without it being violently put to a halt. Nobody from any political ideology (except maybe Nazism) should have that brought upon them.