[the truth]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

i agree completely.
I agree with him on a lot but no way do i think he should get the labour leadership.
This is an important choice for labour to make this time and despite my support for labour, the choices,i have to admit are of limited appeal.

Two of them will have the better chance to do well in 2020 than the other 2 would and for me sadly jeremy corbyn is of the latter.

who do you want to win then?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by the truth

who do you want to win then?

I am waiting to see how all of them do over the speeches and performances up until the vote.

If I had to choose one of them tomorrow, at this time my vote would go to Andy Burnham.

That may not be so guaranteed by the time the vote is held however.
I am sort of disappointed with the choices.

Jeremy Corbyn would have been great in another decade a good while ago.
Yvette Cooper does come with some baggage as to her Husband Ed Balls
Liz Kendall,I like but she can come across as patronising when she talks to you.
Andy Burnham, well he would have been a far better choice in 2010 but at present as he is a politician I admire, he is my preference at this moment in time anyway.

The Deputy Leader is far easier,I will support Ben Bradshaw there,the only person who has been able to hold a South West seat, Exeter, for 5 elections in a row now and who increased his majority there in May too.
If he can win in that area, Labour need far more like him in my view.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I am waiting to see how all of them do over the speeches and performances up until the vote.

If I had to choose one of them tomorrow, at this time my vote would go to Andy Burnham.

That may not be so guaranteed by the time the vote is held however.
I am sort of disappointed with the choices.

Jeremy Corbyn would have been great in another decade a good while ago.
Yvette Cooper does come with some baggage as to her Husband Ed Balls
Liz Kendall,I like but she can come across as patronising when she talks to you.
Andy Burnham, well he would have been a far better choice in 2010 but at present as he is a politician I admire, he is my preference at this moment in time anyway.

The Deputy Leader is far easier,I will support Ben Bradshaw there,the only person who has been able to hold a South West seat, Exeter, for 5 elections in a row now and who increased his majority there in May too.
If he can win in that area, Labour need far more like him in my view.

how on earth can you vote for a man who voted to invade Iraq and spent a few years ruining the nhs and was there when the mass of abuses in umpteen hospitals was happening under his stewardship?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by the truth

how on earth can you vote for a man who voted to invade Iraq and spent a few years ruining the nhs and was there when the mass of abuses in umpteen hospitals was happening under his stewardship?

Hmm, I feared answering you would lead to a hysterical and unreasoned outburst but I gave you the benefit of the doubt and tried to anyway.
Firstly, if not voting for MPs who supported Iraq's invasion was the norm, few MPs would get votes at all, even now.

Parliament was given the wrong information by the then Prime Minister,they acted and voted for or against on the contents of all the information put before them.
The thing opposite as to you and I is, that I don't hold what others do 'once', that I disagree with, against them and certainly not to ever think they cannot be trusted again.
The MPs who vote yes to Iraq, believed strongly that what they had been presented with was the whole truth,which it was later proved to not be so.

As to the NHS, Andy was only Health Secretary a short time in reality and the abuses had gone on both under his time and way back into previous govts times too.
For instance are also the Conservative health secretaries to be always held responsible for the abuses made across the NHS by Jimmy Saville.
No of course they are not,that is ridiculous.

There are abuses going on now, and they are not the responsibility alone of Jeremy Hunt the present Health Secretary either.

So I can easily vote for Andy Burnham if that is what I so wish to do, he had excellent ideas as to mental health care and also social care too,his plans for the NHS would have helped in my view enormously and he was in consultations too with the Lib Dems before the 2010 election as to them too.

Furthermore,after a rocky beginning, I also massively admire Andy Burnham for his tireless efforts as to getting the right thing done and the real truth made known as to the Hillsborough tragedy.
We need more politicians like that who will fight for justice and give their all to help bring it about too.

I am not going to re-live Iraq over and over,I would have never supported Iraqs invasion myself.
the NHS, is a massive organisation, wherein there will always be tragedies and abuses,sadly that is the case, it should not happen but it does.
The people to blame for that are those who are there in the NHS day after day, week after week, year after year. they are the ones responsible for what takes place and once it is known and proved, then Govt should take action.

So they are my reasons for probably voting for Andy,if we held every thing any MP voted wrongly on or what we didn't agree with them on, then there would be likely no MPs left at all to vote for.

I am probably wasting my breath here and you may come back with another rant.
I chose to answer the question you asked me originally with a reasoned and detailed reply.
It seems despite giving you the benefit of the doubt again, I was also misguided in doing so again.
I am not however going down the road of your personal prejudiced line against the Labour party or the NHS.
I answered your question and will not be doing so again.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Hmm, I feared answering you would lead to hysterical and unreasoned outburst but I gave you the benefit of the doubt and tried to anyway.
Firstly, if not voting for MPs who supported Iraq'a invasion was the norm, few MPs would get votes at all, even now.

Parliament was given the wrong information by the then Prime Minister,they acted and voted for or against on the contents of all the information put before them.
The thing opposite as to you and I is, that I don't hold what others do 'once' that I disagree with, against them and certainly not to ever think they cannot be trusted again.
The MPs who vote yes to Iraq, believed strongly that what they had been presented with was the whole truth,which it was later proved to not be so.

AS to the NHS, Andy was only Health Secretary a short time in reality and the abuses had gone on both under his time and way back into previous govts times too.
For instance are also the Conservative health secretaries to be always held responsible for the abuses made across the NHS by Jimmy Saville.
No of course they are not,that is ridiculous.

There are abuses going on now, and they are not the responsibility alone of Jeremy Hunt the present Health Secretary either.

So I can easily vote for Andy Burnham if that is what I so wish to do, he had excellent ideas as to mental health care and also social care too.his plans for the NHS would have helped in my view enormously and he was in consultations too with the Lib Dems before the 2010 elections to them too.

Furthermore,after a rocky beginning, I also massively admire Andy Burnham for his tireless efforts as to getting the right thing done and the real truth made known as to the Hillsborough tragedy.
We need more politicians like that who will fight for justice and give their all to help bring it about too.

I am not going to re-live Iraq over and over,I would have never supported Iraq'a invasion myself.
the NHS, is a massive organisation, wherein there will always be tragedies and abuses,sadly that is the case, it should not happen but it does.
he people to blame for that are those who are there in the NHS day after day, week after week, year after year. they are the ones responsible for what takes place and once it is known and proved, then Govt should take action.

So they are my reasons for probably voting for Andy,if we held every thing any MP voted wrongly on or what we didn't agree with them on, then there would be likely no MPs left at all to vote for.

I am probably wasting my breath here and you may come back with another rant.
I chose to answer the question you asked me originally with a reasoned and detailed reply.
I seems despite giving you the befit of the doubt again, I was also misguided in doing so again.
I am not however going down the road of your personal prejudiced line against the Labour party or the NHS.
I answered your question and will not be doing so again.

your uncalled for personal attack is duly noted. it seems youre very uncomfortable with someone questioning your beliefs and your reasoning behind it. Why? it seems a you have a very thin skin in these matters perhaps based on some insecurities?

as for your responses, I am not here to judge you, despite the fact you judge me. However I am here to judge politicians. Despite your personal petty attacks and your false claims against me and my supposed hate of labour, I shall take on this topic objectively.

I agree burnham did a grand and tireless job on Hillsborough.
re the nhs he made a better go it it than some labour ministers, though in the end he did fail.

as for Iraq war, if a man is so spineless and gullible as to be rushed and hoodwinked into bombing a million innocent people to death on a packed of lies, then imo he should never ever be in a position of power again.

I shall not be replying again