[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

When 'The Media' report something which Tibbie Lefties agree with it is 'Genuine Reportage', but when 'The Media' report something which Tibbie Lefties do not agree with, it is 'Media Scaremongering/Manipulation or Character Assasssination/Lies.... Yawn, zzzzz.

No one - Journalist or other - has invented Corbyn's controversial statements on terrorist organisations past and present, or paid look-alikes to fake his meetings and dealings with these 'enemies of the UK', and his words and deeds thus far concerning these terrorists borders on treason.

The above is fact - like it or not - and yet this 'virtual' fifth columnist is now leader of the Labour Party and a contender for the most powerful political office in the UK.

Corbyn supporters have a very real problem when it comes to crowing about him winning future power and forming the first Labour Government since 2010, because in order for this to be achieved, one of two momentous 'sea changes' will HAVE to occur;

1) The Labour Party will have to convince the great majority of the British public that by some 'miraculous epiphany', Corbyn has completely changed nearly all his views - particularly his anti-patriotic (treasonous) views on Foreign Policy.

Alas, up to now Corbyn - having only been elected for a few days - has attended a 'Welcome Refugee' rally and did not sing our National Anthem during a WW2 Memorial Service for our fallen heroes. Hardly a great start.

2) By some greater miracle, the Labour Party will have to change the mindset of the great majority of the British Public who currently number IS and other terror organisations, and unfettered Immigration as their greatest concerns.

With a world increasingly fractured by bloodletting, chaos and destruction at the hands of IS, and an ever swelling sea of legitimate refugeees requiring entry into the economically fragile UK, along with hundreds of thousands of 'economic' illegal immigrants demanding entry, changing the mindset of the great majority of the British Public and allaying their fears will be difficult - if not impossible.

I do not worry about Corbyn for I believe that this man - like ALL political extremists, cloaked or otherwise - will continue arrogantly to comit one 'faux pas' after another over the coming months, and his '15 minutes of fame' will be short-lived.

How about you post what you think on any given subject and let others have an opinion without any sideswipe or mockery?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Shaun

The whole concept of 'electable' irks me - it just plays into the hands of the bland, policy-less Blair clone that the media are desperate to whittle anyone down to.

**** image. **** winning over idiot middle ground voters. The fact he stands for something is enough to put him leagues ahead of the rest.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

That's why I thought that Ed Milliband was good because he actually had policies (even if he didn't put them across brilliantly) I could understand what he was trying to say.

Every other democratic country has opposition values to the main party in their country, yet in the UK we all have to be Tory lite to be able to get anywhere because the Media won't accept anything else, it's a disgrace.

Excellent points, spot on Mock.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

How about you post what you think on any given subject and let others have an opinion without any sideswipe or mockery?

How about NOT causing PERSONAL argument where there is none by making patently false allegations?

"When 'The Media' report something which Tibbie Lefties agree with it is 'Genuine Reportage', but when 'The Media' report something which Tibbie Lefties do not agree with, it is 'Media Scaremongering/Manipulation or Character Assasssination/Lies.... Yawn, zzzzz."

The above by me is fair comment based upon my previous experience on this Forum. It is NO MORE "sideswipe" or "mockery" than a lot of YOUR and other members comments on various posts.

Do not deflect from being exposed as having no argument in the debate by creating a personal argument - keep it on topic please.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

How about NOT causing PERSONAL argument where there is none by making patently false allegations?

"When 'The Media' report something which Tibbie Lefties agree with it is 'Genuine Reportage', but when 'The Media' report something which Tibbie Lefties do not agree with, it is 'Media Scaremongering/Manipulation or Character Assasssination/Lies.... Yawn, zzzzz."

The above by me is fair comment based upon my previous experience on this Forum. It is NO MORE "sideswipe" or "mockery" than a lot of YOUR and other members comments on various posts.

Do not deflect from being exposed as having no argument in the debate by creating a personal argument - keep it on topic please.

You don't see this as putting a section of the forums views down, I do and it's not necessary is it?
Before I even pass comment on a thread I feel my opinion has been considered and rejected as hypocrisy...Instead of judging and preempting others concentrate on your own views please.

[Livia]

He IS unelectable and I exercise my right to say to. If it's unpalatable to some, tough. That seems to be the way discussions go on this forum now.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Well he's already refusing to engage with the media and his shadow cabinet appointment has been chaotic so its not a good start. The unelectable thing is not purely media scaremongering, it's based on - amongst other things - his inexperience, the fact the vast majority of the PLP disagrees with him, his controversial views particularly over foreign policy, the history of the left in the last few decades etc.

The flip side of this is of course that if we rewind to June there is not a single person who would have predicted the outcome of the leadership election that we got, least of all Corbyn himself. So yes, if our predictions can be turned upside down in just a couple of months then there is no point making cast iron forecasts about the election that is nearly five years away. We are just going to have to wait and see.

All excellent points. It's a long time till the next election. He's a novelty right now but let's not forget this time last year UKIP were a novelty and plenty of people thought they were going to dominate the general election and look what happened there.

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by Livia

He IS unelectable and I exercise my right to say to. If it's unpalatable to some, tough. That seems to be the way discussions go on this forum now.

Nobody ever questioned your freedom of speech.

You can think he's unelectable and I can say that I don't like the use of that word for reasons I've already mentioned. Seems like you've completely ignored the point if I'm being completely honest.. just throwing your arms up in the air yelling 'i have a right to say this!!' instead of putting some explanation to your points.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

Nobody ever questioned your freedom of speech.

You can think he's unelectable and I can say that I don't like the use of that word for reasons I've already mentioned. Seems like you've completely ignored the point if I'm being completely honest.. just throwing your arms up in the air yelling 'i have a right to say this!!' instead of putting some explanation to your points.

The point is you hate it when people say he's unelectable. But in many people's opinion, he is. He's like Farage: a novelty. And the two of them are at opposite ends of the same scale.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

Nobody ever questioned your freedom of speech.

You can think he's unelectable and I can say that I don't like the use of that word for reasons I've already mentioned. Seems like you've completely ignored the point if I'm being completely honest.. just throwing your arms up in the air yelling 'i have a right to say this!!' instead of putting some explanation to your points.

Are you really being serious with Liv Josh?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Livia

The point is you hate it when people say he's unelectable. But in many people's opinion, he is. He's like Farage: a novelty. And the two of them are at opposite ends of the same scale.

There IS one fundamental but collossal difference Liv - Farage is a patriot.

[Tom4784]

Meh, the Media and the Tories wouldn't be ****ting themselves like they currently are if he was unelectable. They'll try their hardest to convince the easily led that he is with their desperate little smear campaigns though.

All Corbyn has to do is wait, the Tories aren't going to be lucky enough to have the anti-tory vote split between three parties in the next election.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Meh, the Media and the Tories wouldn't be ****ting themselves like they currently are if he was unelectable. They'll try their hardest to convince the easily led that he is with their desperate little smear campaigns though.

All Corbyn has to do is wait, the Tories aren't going to be lucky enough to have the anti-tory vote split between three parties in the next election.

The anti tory vote will have all but disappeared, so they will have no worries on that score. No one is ****ting themselves, pissing themselves laughing is more accurate.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

The anti tory vote will have all but disappeared, so they will have no worries on that score. No one is ****ting themselves, pissing themselves laughing is more accurate.

Then why are the Tories putting out desperate attack videos? Not exactly the sign of a confident party is it?

We've only had a few months of a Tory majority and they've already gone back to their old tricks. With UKIP dead in the water after Farage's 'attempt' at resigning and the SNP looking like a damp squib if they can't get another Referendum rolling, there's not going to be anyone else to split the vote.

The smear tactics are a sign of a desperation, the Tories know that Corbyn could very well spell the end of their reign.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Then why are the Tories putting out desperate attack videos? Not exactly the sign of a confident party is it?

We've only had a few months of a Tory majority and they've already gone back to their old tricks. With UKIP dead in the water after Farage's 'attempt' at resigning and the SNP looking like a damp squib if they can't get another Referendum rolling, there's not going to be anyone else to split the vote.

The smear tactics are a sign of a desperation, the Tories know that Corbyn could very well spell the end of their reign.

they are not smear tactics, they are highlighting the person that labour has chosen to be their new leader and informing the voting public. There is no false information being spread, just factual information highlighting the behaviour of Corbyn over his political life.

[Jack_]

They are absolutely smear tactics and fear mongering. The video the Conservatives posted on the Twitter account is both incredibly embarrassing and ****ing hilarious.

They have taken all of his quotes completely out of context and underlaid the video with a sinister bed. It looks like it's been made on Windows Movie Maker and just about sums up the state of politics in this country, fear and smear, divide and rule, etc etc. The Russian Embassy was right to point out that if Putin were calling opposition parties a 'threat to national security' and making such videos, there would be outrage in both the UK and the US, and rightly so. If Jeremy Corbyn or the Labour Party were genuinely a threat to national security they would have been arrested and would be being interrogated right now.

It's like a Nazi propaganda video and it would be disturbing if it wasn't so shambolically produced.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Jack_

They are absolutely smear tactics and fear mongering. The video the Conservatives posted on the Twitter account is both incredibly embarrassing and ****ing hilarious.

They have taken all of his quotes completely out of context and underlaid the video with a sinister bed. It looks like it's been made on Windows Movie Maker and just about sums up the state of politics in this country, fear and smear, divide and rule, etc etc. The Russian Embassy was right to point out that if Putin were calling opposition parties a 'threat to national security' and making such videos, there would be outrage in both the UK and the US, and rightly so. If Jeremy Corbyn or the Labour Party were genuinely a threat to national security they would have been arrested and would be being interrogated right now.

It's like a Nazi propaganda video and it would be disturbing if it wasn't so shambolically produced.

Then perhaps you could post in their entirety, the speeches Corbyn made from which all these 'smears' were ' taken out of context'?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

they are not smear tactics, they are highlighting the person that labour has chosen to be their new leader and informing the voting public. There is no false information being spread, just factual information highlighting the behaviour of Corbyn over his political life.

Absolutely accurately said BitOnTheSlide. Facts are facts. I'm afraid we are are swimming against a tide of blindness in a sea of delusionists.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Absolutely accurately said BitOnTheSlide. Facts are facts. I'm afraid we are are swimming against a tide of blindness in a sea of delusionists.

This from the same people who, a few months ago, were bawling about Princess Farage being the "victim" of smear campaigns and that his quotes were being taken out of context. you couldn't write it.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

This from the same people who, a few months ago, were bawling about Princess Farage being the "victim" of smear campaigns and that his quotes were being taken out of context. you couldn't write it.

You think what you like and post all the crap you want, but the two issues are poles apart. Farage is a patriot who CARES about Britain and the British. Corbyn is a terrorist loving anti-British traitor in waiting. Farage WAS being smeared AND quoted out of context AND castigated for what lesser light loose cannons in his party were saying. Corbyn SAID the things he is reported as saying and HAS supported and stood shoulder to shoulder with terrorist bastards.

Dream on self-delusioned one.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

The point is you hate it when people say he's unelectable. But in many people's opinion, he is. He's like Farage: a novelty. And the two of them are at opposite ends of the same scale.

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

You think what you like and post all the crap you want, but the two issues are poles apart. Farage is a patriot who CARES about Britain and the British. Corbyn is a terrorist loving anti-British traitor in waiting. Farage WAS being smeared AND quoted out of context AND castigated for what lesser light loose cannons in his party were saying. Corbyn SAID the things he is reported as saying and HAS supported and stood shoulder to shoulder with terrorist bastards.

Dream on self-delusioned one.

Yet you have little to say about it when Livia points out that they're flipsides of the same coin. Funny, that.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Then perhaps you could post in their entirety, the speeches Corbyn made from which all these 'smears' were ' taken out of context'?

"Bin Laden's death was a 'tragedy'", the rest of the sentence that preceded that remark:

Youtube video

i.e., it was a tragedy he did not face trial for the crimes he had committed. Which is correct.

'Claims Hamas and Hezbollah are friends'

Youtube video

Invited them to a forum to discuss peace. If you're inviting people up for a civilised, mature debate (something this forum seems to be lacking of late, how ironic) you describe and introduce the participants in a respectful manner. He was hardly going to say 'and I've invited the ****ing c**** from Hamas' was he?

The quotes about trident are the only ones that stand true, and that's a political issue that different people disagree on. Nothing wrong with that.

The Conservatives video they tweeted was nothing more than a disturbingly hilarious, shoddy piece of propaganda that has more place in 1940's Germany than in a Western democracy. This is precisely the reason why people are so turned off of politics. Fact.

But sadly we are swimming against a tide of sensationalism, smearing and propaganda in a sea of reactionary, hysterical, Daily Mail reading, immigrant fearing, poverty bashing, narrow minded, heartless, backwards, borderline racists that are scared to leave the house cause of those 'hoodies, gays and blacks down the road'. I'm doing it right aren't I? This is how political discussions are supposed to work, right?

[joeysteele]

Well it may be true that he is unlikely to win an election bit it rather odd to say anyone is unelectable,no matter what party they are from.

What he has already done is made Labour the bigger party as to membership,he has also attracted people who paid a small sort of donation to be able to vote for a party leader and also has attracted many young people too.

I cannot bear George Osborne or Theresa May or Boris Johnson for that matter,however no way do I see, even with their heartless and severe extreme views as unelectable.
To say here and now almost 5 years from a general election that anyone is unelectable is rather a clouded view.
We, I certainly haven't, have no idea what voters will be looking for in 5 years time,or indeed what state the UK will be in.
Will we be coming out of the EU, will there be another vote,maybe already held, as to Scottish independence.

Just because someone is not liked by some does not in anyway mean they are unelectable, Winston Churchill and Conservative supporters may well have thought that of Attlee and labour in 1945, which they got a massive shock on in the end.

I have already come to expect the unexpected in politics,anything can happen and if an idea is plausible and the message conveyed right then really no one,especially as to the main parties is unelectable.
So overall on here I am more with JoshBB who for someone also really young, has good, strong and healthy open views as to politics.
Not seeing the political process as the possession of only the extreme hardline far right politicians and voters,as to the rights of winning elections.

[smudgie]

The Labour MP's that put his name forward thought he was unelectable...and look where that has got them

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by smudgie

The Labour MP's that put his name forward thought he was unelectable...and look where that has got them

Exactly and he has pulled in new members of the party to vote for him so he appealed to those who had become really disenchanted as well as those who had stayed in the party too.

As well as pulling in many young people too.