[Livia]

The implication that those who are against this are right and everyone else is naïve is getting a little tedious. We all have an opinion based on what we know and what we believe. And terrorists and paedophiles are not myths.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Livia

The implication that those who are against this are right and everyone else is naïve is getting a little tedious. We all have an opinion based on what we know and what we believe. And terrorists and paedophiles are not myths.

It is naive though to think that these surveillance powers, if granted, won't be misused. The terrorist/peadophile line is just an excuse, there hasn't been a major attack in the UK for years now so why do we need to ave our privacy invaded even more? Why can't MI5 do their jobs properly without becoming the Gestappo?

People have died to protect our rights, it's an insult to their memory to throw them away out of fear and for a false sense of security.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It is naive though to think that these surveillance powers, if granted, won't be misused. The terrorist/peadophile line is just an excuse, there hasn't been a major attack in the UK for years now so why do we need to ave our privacy invaded even more? Why can't MI5 do their jobs properly without becoming the Gestappo?

People have died to protect our rights, it's an insult to their memory to throw them away out of fear and for a false sense of security.

Why do you think there hasn't been an attack for a long time? It's not a coincidence. If they need more powers and there is a discussion about it and it becomes law... then I really don't have a problem with it. And my own liberty is just as much at risk as yours.

Please Dezzy, don't liken our security services to the gestapo. That truly is ridiculous.

People are STILL dying to protect our rights. Sometimes those defending us need extra help and intelligence from our security services and I'm not against giving them that.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Livia

Why do you think there hasn't been an attack for a long time? It's not a coincidence. If they need more powers and there is a discussion about it and it becomes law... then I really don't have a problem with it. And my own liberty is just as much at risk as yours.

Please Dezzy, don't liken our security services to the gestapo. That truly is ridiculous.

People are STILL dying to protect our rights. Sometimes those defending us need extra help and intelligence from our security services and I'm not against giving them that.

They didn't need these powers before and I'm not gonna believe they need it now because they used a few buzzwords to work people into an hysteria. Like Bitontheside said, if they really need it then they'll give us full and frank justifications of why it's needed and it should be regulated to prevent them becoming even more like the NSA. I'm not willing going to give up my rights because of some boogeyman buzzwords.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It is naive though to think that these surveillance powers, if granted, won't be misused. The terrorist/peadophile line is just an excuse, there hasn't been a major attack in the UK for years now so why do we need to ave our privacy invaded even more? Why can't MI5 do their jobs properly without becoming the Gestappo?

People have died to protect our rights, it's an insult to their memory to throw them away out of fear and for a false sense of security.

I am somewhat in the middle in all of this. I think the government and agencies are being underhand in linking terrorists with paedophiles to try and get traction for their proposals. They are completely different threats requiring completely different types of detection methods and the threats are handled by separate agencies.

If surveillance techniques need to be enhanced, and it is perfectly possible that it is needed, then the scope and use need to be defined to the n'th degree so that people can be comfortable that the data is being used solely for the purpose intended and cannot be used in relation to any other matter.

I also think that if enhancement is deemed necessary, it needs to be backed up with verifiable metrics showing what threats and incidents would have been stopped if we had these enhanced measures. At the moment, to my knowledge, there has been next to no events on UK soil that have been successful in the last 5 years. Even with the best security in the world, some incidents can always happen, so what exactly will the benefits of increased surveillance be.