[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I personally don't give a flying feck how the evil psychopathic bastard was killed just as long as he was. God Bless America.

But if he was who he supposedly was, and they had every chance to take him alive (which they did), then he would potentially have been an absolute goldmine of anti-terrorist intelligence? Yet he was "oops" killed in, supposedly, some sort of trigger-happy raid where he may or may not have been holding a potato gun.

And then the body was "disposed of" very quickly, in questionable circumstances, with near nonsensical excuses.

It just doesn't make any sense. The story doesn't add up, at all. What's the real reason for the body dump? I'm not quite on board with the idea that it wasn't him (some people suggest it was all PR and he had actually randomly died months earlier) but my personal suspicion is that forensic examination of the body wouldn't have matched up with the story that was given about how he was killed. For example, if he was shot from behind while running away, or if he was already tied up and then executed.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

But if he was who he supposedly was, and they had every chance to take him alive (which they did), then he would potentially have been an absolute goldmine of anti-terrorist intelligence? Yet he was "oops" killed in, supposedly, some sort of trigger-happy raid where he may or may not have been holding a potato gun.
And then the body was "disposed of" very quickly, in questionable circumstances, with near nonsensical excuses.

It just doesn't make any sense. The story doesn't add up, at all. What's the real reason for the body dump? I'm not quite on board with the idea that it wasn't him (some people suggest it was all PR and he had actually randomly died months earlier) but my personal suspicion is that forensic examination of the body wouldn't have matched up with the story that was given about how he was killed. For example, if he was shot from behind while running away, or if he was already tied up and then executed.

Totally agree with all that.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

But if he was who he supposedly was, and they had every chance to take him alive (which they did), then he would potentially have been an absolute goldmine of anti-terrorist intelligence? Yet he was "oops" killed in, supposedly, some sort of trigger-happy raid where he may or may not have been holding a potato gun.

And then the body was "disposed of" very quickly, in questionable circumstances, with near nonsensical excuses.

It just doesn't make any sense. The story doesn't add up, at all. What's the real reason for the body dump? I'm not quite on board with the idea that it wasn't him (some people suggest it was all PR and he had actually randomly died months earlier) but my personal suspicion is that forensic examination of the body wouldn't have matched up with the story that was given about how he was killed. For example, if he was shot from behind while running away, or if he was already tied up and then executed.

The series of events was a little strange I have to admit. I don't know why questioning it should make anyone think you're a crazy conspiracy theorist but you're right it does

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

But if he was who he supposedly was, and they had every chance to take him alive (which they did), then he would potentially have been an absolute goldmine of anti-terrorist intelligence? Yet he was "oops" killed in, supposedly, some sort of trigger-happy raid where he may or may not have been holding a potato gun.

And then the body was "disposed of" very quickly, in questionable circumstances, with near nonsensical excuses.

It just doesn't make any sense. The story doesn't add up, at all. What's the real reason for the body dump? I'm not quite on board with the idea that it wasn't him (some people suggest it was all PR and he had actually randomly died months earlier) but my personal suspicion is that forensic examination of the body wouldn't have matched up with the story that was given about how he was killed. For example, if he was shot from behind while running away, or if he was already tied up and then executed.

I simply do not care T.S. As far as I am concerned it is one terrorist less and many innocent people can sleep more safely in their beds with each terrorist who is disposed of the same way - no matter in which manner that was.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I simply do not care T.S. As far as I am concerned it is one terrorist less and many innocent people can sleep more safely in their beds with each terrorist who is disposed of the same way - no matter in which manner that was.

For me, it's not because I care about Osama Bin Laden, I'm just wondering what the Americans wanted covering up (if anything of course)

[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I simply do not care T.S. As far as I am concerned it is one terrorist less and many innocent people can sleep more safely in their beds with each terrorist who is disposed of the same way - no matter in which manner that was.

The thing that saves the most lives is counter intelligence and the information that, presumably, could have been gotten from Bin Laden - a supposed head of the snake - would have been worth infinitely more than one dead terrorist.

That's somewhere we'll always differ though Kirk. I'd rather live and die hearing the truth than be safer in ignorance.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The thing that saves the most lives is counter intelligence and the information that, presumably, could have been gotten from Bin Laden - a supposed head of the snake - would have been worth infinitely more than one dead terrorist.

That's somewhere we'll always differ though Kirk. I'd rather live and die hearing the truth than be safer in ignorance.

...it is all odd and this isn't something I've given though to until just now but because of his 'value', would they have thought that him being alive and captured could just lead to many hostage situations to get him back../released..?..

[DemolitionRed]

But let genuine reportage surface which speaks the CORROBORATED truth about one of their political dah-lings and they are up in arms decreeing it all "Fake", "Character Assassination", and "Lies", or worse - they lambaste the sources of the reports as; "Right Wing Propagandists".

Do you mean the corroborated truth from the Daily Mail?

These stories are edited to reflect an agenda and depending on which paper you read and depending on whether you have a capitalist or socialist view on politics, then these stories will reflect or oppose your opinions. Ultimately this isn't about simple capitalism or socialism, its about whether or not you and your loved ones feel looked after. What I mean by 'looked after' is of course subjective.

Some people with a keen political interest, won't take anything a right wing or a left wing story tells us without going off and digging a little deeper. There are quite a few examples over the past few weeks where popular tabloids have taken only part of a whole story and turned it into something it isn't....Corbyn's support of Islamic extremists and the IRA is a case in point.

As a right wing thinker, you likely want to believe these stories because they give you the ammunition you need to demonise this man. I, on the other hand worry that such stories may or may not be true so I go about searching for the full story and the truth behind the headlines. Only the bigger picture shows truth and not some sensational headline from the right wing/left wing propaganda machine.

Any political opinion, whether right wing or left wing, should never be held with dogmatism and rigidity. Growth of knowledge is what's important here because if we can't have an intelligent political debate, all we can do is hit stalemate.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

But let genuine reportage surface which speaks the CORROBORATED truth about one of their political dah-lings and they are up in arms decreeing it all "Fake", "Character Assassination", and "Lies", or worse - they lambaste the sources of the reports as; "Right Wing Propagandists".

Do you mean the corroborated truth from the Daily Mail?

These stories are edited to reflect an agenda and depending on which paper you read and depending on whether you have a capitalist or socialist view on politics, then these stories will reflect or oppose your opinions. Ultimately this isn't about simple capitalism or socialism, its about whether or not you and your loved ones feel looked after. What I mean by 'looked after' is of course subjective.

Some people with a keen political interest, won't take anything a right wing or a left wing story tells us without going off and digging a little deeper. There are quite a few examples over the past few weeks where popular tabloids have taken only part of a whole story and turned it into something it isn't....Corbyn's support of Islamic extremists and the IRA is a case in point.

As a right wing thinker, you likely want to believe these stories because they give you the ammunition you need to demonise this man. I, on the other hand worry that such stories may or may not be true so I go about searching for the full story and the truth behind the headlines. Only the bigger picture shows truth and not some sensational headline from the right wing/left wing propaganda machine.

Any political opinion, whether right wing or left wing, should never be held with dogmatism and rigidity. Growth of knowledge is what's important here because if we can't have an intelligent political debate, all we can do is hit stalemate.

You are very wise.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

You are very wise.

Paul, correct me if I am wrong, but I think you are complimenting Demolition Red for her post in error. I believe that you read the emboldened section believing it to be her view, when in reality, it was part of my post which she was quoting and which was in fact, the polar opposite of her views.

Here is my post in its entirety:

"There are people out there who are oh so willing to believe the most ludicrous, uncorroborated rubbish about ANYONE just as long as it suits their own political stance:

"Nigel Farage Ate My Albanian Immigrant Hamster"

But let genuine reportage surface which speaks the CORROBORATED truth about one of their political dah-lings and they are up in arms decreeing it all "Fake", "Character Assassination", and "Lies", or worse - they lambaste the sources of the reports as; "Right Wing Propagandists".

It does not matter what colour Paul Revere's horse was when he announced that "The British Are Coming" - 'The British' were, indeed, 'Coming', and it does not matter what political bias (if any) the media has which reports these unsavoury facts about Corbyn - He SAID them. Provable, checkable - He SAID them.

I do not give a hoot what Corbyn and/or his PR Machine say now about;

"That was a long time ago and Jeremy's changed", "Oh, Jeremy was deliberately misquoted" etc. etc. The man is a treacherous fifth columnist who wishes to gain the most powerful political position in the UK so that he can render this country totally defenseless against threats from without, and totally defenseless to insurrection from within due to the unprecedented numbers of ANT-BRITISH immigrants he will have let flood into the UK with his nefarious policies.

"Jeremy's changed"

That's like the 'Zeus' virus - reputedly the most lethal 'Trojan Horse' virus known - suddenly saying (if it could talk) "I'm no longer a threat to your PC, I've changed. Let me in. Put me in charge of your PC's security".

Oh yeah. Jeremy. Sure."

If I am wrong, and you are indeed applauding Red's post, then I apologise.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Do you mean the corroborated truth from the Daily Mail?

These stories are edited to reflect an agenda and depending on which paper you read and depending on whether you have a capitalist or socialist view on politics, then these stories will reflect or oppose your opinions. Ultimately this isn't about simple capitalism or socialism, its about whether or not you and your loved ones feel looked after. What I mean by 'looked after' is of course subjective.

Some people with a keen political interest, won't take anything a right wing or a left wing story tells us without going off and digging a little deeper. There are quite a few examples over the past few weeks where popular tabloids have taken only part of a whole story and turned it into something it isn't....Corbyn's support of Islamic extremists and the IRA is a case in point.

As a right wing thinker, you likely want to believe these stories because they give you the ammunition you need to demonise this man. I, on the other hand worry that such stories may or may not be true so I go about searching for the full story and the truth behind the headlines. Only the bigger picture shows truth and not some sensational headline from the right wing/left wing propaganda machine.

Any political opinion, whether right wing or left wing, should never be held with dogmatism and rigidity. Growth of knowledge is what's important here because if we can't have an intelligent political debate, all we can do is hit stalemate.

............................... End Of Quote.............................................

Wow - 'The Ego Has Landed'. I'm sorry, but EGO permeates every sentence of your post.

"As a right wing thinker, you likely want to believe these stories because they give you the ammunition you need to demonise this man. I, on the other hand worry that such stories may or may not be true so I go about searching for the full story and the truth behind the headlines.]Only the bigger picture shows truth and not some sensational headline from the right wing/left wing propaganda machine."

Just where, in the many posts which I have contributed to this forum, do you educe that I am so poorly read or narrowly informed, that I formulate my opinions from just one source?

I have repeatedly stressed that I do not make up my mind based upon the first thing I read or see, and that I cross-reference and research further before forming an opinion - and this includes directly informing you of these facts on other threads.

I certainly do not need lessons from you on this subject - especially in such a patronising post which seems as if it has been written by a pompous Primary School teacher for the benefit of her class of 7 year olds.

"Ultimately this isn't about simple capitalism or socialism, its about whether or not you and your loved ones feel looked after. What I mean by 'looked after' is of course subjective."

Subjective, it certainly is. 'Looked after'? Now let me see:

Would I feel my children and grandchildrens future would be assured and that they would be 'looked after' under Corbyn's ideal United Kingdom?

No Nuclear Deterrent at a time when more than ever we need one - because of the threat from insane Islamic Terrorists who will stop at nothing to destroy our Christian Western Demoracy and rebuild another Mecca Phoenix-like from the ashes?

No Military Services at all, or a decimated token 'Banana Republic' army at best, where 'Boots On Ground' means very few boots, and severely worn, ill-fitting ones at best?

Oh I could go on-and-on, but no need, because MY answer is - No. I would NOT feel that I or my loved ones would be 'Looked after'. NEXT:

"Some people with a keen political interest, won't take anything a right wing or a left wing story tells us without going off and digging a little deeper. There are quite a few examples over the past few weeks where popular tabloids have taken only part of a whole story and turned it into something it isn't....Corbyn's support of Islamic extremists and the IRA is a case in point."

Here, I will simply challenge you to abandon your rhetoric and debate me on whether Corbyn is an anti-UK terrorist sympathiser or not, and whether he has, indeed, said the things he is quoted in MANY media reports of having said.

Incidentally, your: "Some people with a keen political interest, won't take anything a right wing or a left wing story tells us without going off and digging a little deeper." is offensive and arrogant. You are not the only one who has "a keen political interest", though your sentence is 'self-elevating' in this respect.

"Any political opinion, whether right wing or left wing, should never be held with dogmatism and rigidity. Growth of knowledge is what's important here because if we can't have an intelligent political debate, all we can do is hit stalemate."

I could not agree more, but "intelligent political debate" does not mean ignoring FACTS - CORROBORATED HARD TRUTHS - once presented by the other side, and continuing on with views which such hard facts have demolished as wrong.

So let us debate.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The thing that saves the most lives is counter intelligence and the information that, presumably, could have been gotten from Bin Laden - a supposed head of the snake - would have been worth infinitely more than one dead terrorist.

That's somewhere we'll always differ thoufacing gh Kirk. I'd rather live and die hearing the truth than be safer in ignorance.

I do not hold with being ignorant T.S. - not in any way. I absorb as much knowledge as I can, about all subjects.

However, I was not the ones with Bin Laden that night in a terrorist-friendly country, faced with potentially overwhelming odds and the job of capturing the world's No. 1 Murdering Terrorist at the time.

I do not know - no more than you or anyone else does - exactly what happened that night.

Perhaps Bin Laden went for a gun. Perhaps he went to scratch his dick. I don't know and I do not care.

I PRESUME that the US Military who were there WOULD have taken him alive IF they had the choice, but with spilt second decisions to make, if the ONLY resort was to kill him then I'm happy to leave it at that.

If someone could hold up Jihadi John's dead body somewhere in the world, I would not care either if they had shot him with a whaling harpoon gun while was sitting on the toilet or in the back while was running away.

Personally, I hope that if the day comes when Jihadi John gets his, that he is shot straight between the eyes while he is knelt, unharmed, and begging for his miserable life.

But, hey ho - that's me.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I do not hold with being ignorant T.S. - not in any way. I absorbe as much knowledge as I can, about all subjects.

However, I was not the ones with Bin Laden that night in a terrorist-friendly country, faced with potentially overwhelming odds and the job of capturing the world's No. 1 Murdering Terrorist at the time.

I do not know - no more than you or anyone else does - exactly what happened that night.

Perhaps Bin Laden went for a gun. Perhaps he went to scratch his dick. I don't know and I do not care.

I PRESUME that the US Military who were there WOULD have taken him alive IF they had the choice, but with spilt second decisions to make, if the ONLY resort was to kill him then I'm happy to leave it at that.

If someone could hold up Jihadi John's dead body somewhere in the world, I would not care either if they had shot him with a whaling harpoon gun while was sitting on the toilet or in the back while was running away.

Personally, I hope that if the day comes when Jihadi John gets his, that he is shot straight between the eyes while he is knelt, unharmed, and begging for his miserable life.

But, hey ho - that's me.

And the reasoning for dumping the body? You're happy to buy into that, too? I don't know exactly what happened there that night either, obviously, but the only reason I can think of for the swift and secretive disposal of the body is that they don't want anyone to know how it went down. That bothers me. You're happy to accept it at face value "for the greater good". That's fine, but in my opinion, it's willful ignorance.

As for how I know that it's not all what it seems to be at face value? That one's easy. Simply nothing EVER is. Never. Not in interactions between individuals, not in politics, and certainly not in war.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

And the reasoning for dumping the body? You're happy to buy into that, too? I don't know exactly what happened there that night either, obviously, but the only reason I can think of for the swift and secretive disposal of the body is that they don't want anyone to know how it went down. That bothers me. You're happy to accept it at face value "for the greater good". That's fine, but in my opinion, it's willful ignorance.

As for how I know that it's not all what it seems to be at face value? That one's easy. Simply nothing EVER is. Never. Not in interactions between individuals, not in politics, and certainly not in war.

Yep - I agree with you, so with so many other 'lies' and 'mysteries' to try to fathom, why the war dance over a piece of scum killer like Bin Laden?

I have my own mystery concerning this:

Our local council use to empty my bins EVERY week - now, despite ever greater increases in Council Tax, they only empty them every 4 weeks - and that leaves my Bin not only Laden, but over laden. It's a mystery.

[letmein]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

But if he was who he supposedly was, and they had every chance to take him alive (which they did), then he would potentially have been an absolute goldmine of anti-terrorist intelligence? Yet he was "oops" killed in, supposedly, some sort of trigger-happy raid where he may or may not have been holding a potato gun.

And then the body was "disposed of" very quickly, in questionable circumstances, with near nonsensical excuses.

It just doesn't make any sense. The story doesn't add up, at all. What's the real reason for the body dump? I'm not quite on board with the idea that it wasn't him (some people suggest it was all PR and he had actually randomly died months earlier) but my personal suspicion is that forensic examination of the body wouldn't have matched up with the story that was given about how he was killed. For example, if he was shot from behind while running away, or if he was already tied up and then executed.

They did everything in keeping with Islamic law; not providing Islamic extremists ammunition to kill troops. It's the same reason why Hitler's bunker's location is also kept a secret by the German government. Everything was done correctly. Yes, it fuels conspiracy theories, but conspiracy theorists will always come up with something no matter what.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by letmein

They did everything in keeping with Islamic law; not providing Islamic extremists ammunition to kill troops. It's the same reason why Hitler's bunker's location is also kept a secret by the German government. Everything was done correctly. Yes, it fuels conspiracy theories, but conspiracy theorists will always come up with something no matter what.

...

In all seriousness though, I wish I could be like you, it would certainly make life a whole lot simpler.