[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

Well, if you know so much, maybe you could explain it for me. I know a bit about the subject, but not in-depth.

You are fully entitled to your view Josh and I agree there does need to be a 2 Nation state solution.

I am far from anti Israel, I fully take on board how hard it must be for Israel existing with so many hostile and really extreme Nations around them too.
However there are wrongs on both Israel's and the Palestinian sides which hopefully one day will get thrashed out and a meaningful solution found.
Which brings in and are based on mutual and fair respect for both Israelis and Palestinians.

You hold onto your views and don't be put down by anyone, we all have to learn and just picking at what someone says is hardly productive anyway.

In my opinion,you talk a great deal of sense, and more often than not, your posts are well balanced too.
Many hold the view you currently have too, I give you massive credit in the first place for even looking for a view.
If only more like you were really interested in the World and World affairs.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

You are fully entitled to your view Josh and I agree there does need to be a 2 Nation state solution.

I am far from anti Israel, I fully take on board how hard it must be for Israel existing with so many hostile and really extreme Nations around them too.
However there are wrongs on both Israel's and the Palestinian sides which hopefully one day will get thrashed out and a meaningful solution found.
Which brings in and are based on mutual and fair respect for both Israelis and Palestinians.

You hold onto your views and don't be put down by anyone, we all have to learn and just picking at what someone says is hardly productive anyway.

In my opinion,you talk a great deal of sense, and more often than not, your posts are well balanced too.
Many hold the view you currently have too, I give you massive credit in the first place for even looking for a view.
If only more like you were really interested in the World and World affairs.

No one is 'picking on' Josh, Joey. This is a - supposedly - adult forum where mature people discuss Serious topics. Josh's age has absolutely nothing to do with it - if he is old enough to proffer an opinion then he is old enough to receive a response.

I defy you or anyone to show me just where I have 'put' Josh down anymore than any of us are 'put down' on this forum by those who do not hold the same view.

Personally, I am sick and tired of the dishonesty which is employed by some on this forum - misrepresenting the true situation purely to make political capital out of it.

It was the same on another thread with a certain member wrongly claiming that I "had gotten personal" with Josh, when I had not, but - conveniently - there was no mention of Josh accusing me of being racist and xenophobic, which IS highly offensive and personal, when I am not.

LeatherTrumpet, Kyle and others have often greeted some of my posts with far more toxicity than I ever have with Josh, but I love and respect both of them.

If Josh puts a view forward on a forum, then please allow those of us who do not fit your particular ideologies to respond.

Josh started the discussion by stating surprise that I do not support the Palestinian version of events with Israel.

Do all you Left Wing on here REALLY want a forum where only one little clique dare express views?

I know it would suit certain member, but guess what Joey? I will not be forced to remain silent - whether by being 'outnumbered' or 'whether' due to intimidation by false accusation.

Josh has elected to join an adult forum and to discuss grown up topics, so please allow him to do just that.

And mods - please do not remove my post or infract me - I stand 'accused' whether named or not, and I am merely putting my response forward and explaining my view.

I have not been offensive to anyone in this response.

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

No one is 'picking on' Josh, Joey. This is a - supposedly - adult forum where mature people discuss Serious topics. Josh's age has absolutely nothing to do with it - if he is old enough to proffer an opinion then he is old enough to receive a response.

I defy you or anyone to show me just where I have 'put' Josh down anymore than any of us are 'put down' on this forum by those who do not hold the same view.

Personally, I am sick and tired of the dishonesty which is employed by some on this forum - misrepresenting the true situation purely to make political capital out of it.

It was the same on another thread with a certain member wrongly claiming that I "had gotten personal" with Josh, when I had not, but - conveniently - there was no mention of Josh accusing me of being racist and xenophobic, which IS highly offensive and personal, when I am not.

LeatherTrumpet, Kyle and others have often greeted some of my posts with far more toxicity than I ever have with Josh, but I love and respect both of them.

If Josh puts a view forward on a forum, then please allow those of us who do not fit your particular ideologies to respond.

Josh started the discussion by stating surprise that I do not support the Palestinian version of events with Israel.

Do all you Left Wing on here REALLY want a forum where only one little clique dare express views?

I know it would suit certain member, but guess what Joey? I will not be forced to remain silent - whether by being 'outnumbered' or 'whether' due to intimidation by false accusation.

Josh has elected to join an adult forum and to discuss grown up topics, so please allow him to do just that.

And mods - please do not remove my post or infract me - I stand 'accused' whether named or not, and I am merely putting my response forward and explaining my view.

I have not been offensive to anyone in this response.

I would prefer if you didn't treat me like some child who doesn't know how to articulate sensible political opinions, because sometimes you post comments along the lines of "when you grow up you will realise" and it's rude.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

I would prefer if you didn't treat me like some child who doesn't know how to articulate sensible political opinions, because sometimes you post comments along the lines of "when you grow up you will realise" and it's rude.

Where have I said that Josh?

I think you may be confusing me with this from Demolition Red:

"I agree with joey, especially about your posts being well balanced. By the time your 25 Josh, you will know and understand more about world politics than most people will do in their lifetime. "

Which - by the way is true. You will most certainly know more about many aspects of life in another 10 years time, but what is so wrong with stating that truth? How is that rude?

Or do you believe that you already know all there is to know? Because I dearly wish that I did.

But, Josh - you ARE a child. You are just 15 years old and are still a child. You may be precocious, but you are a child.

Hence the very reason that others are WRONGLY leaping to defend you.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

No one is 'picking on' Josh, Joey. This is a - supposedly - adult forum where mature people discuss Serious topics. Josh's age has absolutely nothing to do with it - if he is old enough to proffer an opinion then he is old enough to receive a response.

I defy you or anyone to show me just where I have 'put' Josh down anymore than any of us are 'put down' on this forum by those who do not hold the same view.

Personally, I am sick and tired of the dishonesty which is employed by some on this forum - misrepresenting the true situation purely to make political capital out of it.

It was the same on another thread with a certain member wrongly claiming that I "had gotten personal" with Josh, when I had not, but - conveniently - there was no mention of Josh accusing me of being racist and xenophobic, which IS highly offensive and personal, when I am not.

LeatherTrumpet, Kyle and others have often greeted some of my posts with far more toxicity than I ever have with Josh, but I love and respect both of them.

If Josh puts a view forward on a forum, then please allow those of us who do not fit your particular ideologies to respond.

Josh started the discussion by stating surprise that I do not support the Palestinian version of events with Israel.

Do all you Left Wing on here REALLY want a forum where only one little clique dare express views?

I know it would suit certain member, but guess what Joey? I will not be forced to remain silent - whether by being 'outnumbered' or 'whether' due to intimidation by false accusation.

Josh has elected to join an adult forum and to discuss grown up topics, so please allow him to do just that.

And mods - please do not remove my post or infract me - I stand 'accused' whether named or not, and I am merely putting my response forward and explaining my view.

I have not been offensive to anyone in this response.

I guess you mean me? Yes you did get personal and you just did it again in the racism thread encouraging another member not to waste his time debating with Josh. I may not always agree with what Josh says but I defend his right to say it without being put down because of his age and told to learn more. I don't want to fall out with you Kirk but if you are going to involve me indirectly as you have in this thread I will respond, also I didn't conveniently forget anything I was responding to someone telling you to use the report button.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I guess you mean me? Yes you did get personal and you just did it again in the racism thread encouraging another member not to waste his time debating with Josh. I may not always agree with what Josh says but I defend his right to say it without being put down because of his age and told to learn more. I don't want to fall out with you Kirk but if you are going to involve me indirectly as you have in this thread I will respond, also I didn't conveniently forget anything I was responding to someone telling you to use the report button.

I don't want to fall out with anyone on here - I don't know them and they cannot affect my life one little iota - so why would I fall out with anyone?

However, this does not mean that I will 'lay down and die' just because I am outnumbered or because someone who has been a member on here longer than I have thinks they have a monopoly on the truth, which they most certainly DO NOT.

Josh is very intelligent, but also very naive - and that is NOT denigrating him - but is true of most children his age. If you deny this then your judgement is seriously flawed.

The thread in question has been closed, but, I believe, is still there to view, so I challenge you to prove to me by referencing it, just where I got personal with Josh to the degree that he FIRST got very personal with me by claiming that I was racist and xenophobic (not for the first time) when I most certainly am no such thing.

There is a certain futility in posting on these threads, because NEITHER side of an argument will ever cede - no matter how much corroborating evidence is given in support of a view, but i am afraid, because of Josh's inexperience and lack of maturity, he is particularly dogged in his views and particulary prone to ignoring rational argument and proof, if it is contrary to his opinion.

THIS was the reason for my comment that the other member was 'wasting his time'.

What is wrong with that?

You made adverse comments about me on a thread where you were not even participant, and now you are up in arms again because I have spoken the truth:

Did you criticise me for 'being personal with Josh' yet fail to criticise his offensive labelling of me a racist and xenophobe, or not?

Yes - of course you did.

There are other threads where you have been highly insulting and offensive to me but I did not reciprocate;

You called me a liar when I talked of my own personal experience of Benefit Cheating mothers with multiple children, and you did it again when I posted about my direct experience of SOME immigrants.

You do not OWN this forum, and you cannot continue to leap in at the drop of a hat when you perceive an opportunity to unfairly have a go at me - not without answer any more, I'm afraid.

I suggest the best solution is, that I put both you and Josh on 'IGNORE' and I please ask that both of you do the same with me.

Mods - There is again, nothing offensive in my response. Surely, I have the democratic right to respond to unwarranted allegation and defend myself against it with the truth.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I don't want to fall out with anyone on here - I don't know them and they cannot affect my life one little iota - so why would I fall out with anyone?

However, this does not mean that I will 'lay down and die' just because I am outnumbered or because someone who has been a member on here longer than I have thinks they have a monopoly on the truth, which they most certainly DO NOT.

Josh is very intelligent, but also very naive - and that is NOT denigrating him - but is true of most children his age. If you deny this then your judgement is seriously flawed.

The thread in question has been closed, but, I believe, is still there to view, so I challenge you to prove to me by referencing it, just where I got personal with Josh to the degree that he FIRST got very personal with me by claiming that I was racist and xenophobic (not for the first time) when I most certainly am no such thing.

There is a certain futility in posting on these threads, because NEITHER side of an argument will ever cede - no matter how much corroborating evidence is given in support of a view, but i am afraid, because of Josh's inexperience and lack of maturity, he is particularly dogged in his views and particulary prone to ignoring rational argument and proof, if it is contrary to his opinion.

THIS was the reason for my comment that the other member was 'wasting his time'.

What is wrong with that?

You made adverse comments about me on a thread where you were not even participant, and now you are up in arms again because I have spoken the truth:

Did you criticise me for 'being personal with Josh' yet fail to criticise his offensive labelling of me a racist and xenophobe, or not?

Yes - of course you did.

There are other threads where you have been highly insulting and offensive to me but I did not reciprocate;

You called me a liar when I talked of my own personal experience of Benefit Cheating mothers with multiple children, and you did it again when I posted about my direct experience of SOME immigrants.

You do not OWN this forum, and you cannot continue to leap in at the drop of a hat when you perceive an opportunity to unfairly have a go at me - not without answer any more, I'm afraid.

I suggest the best solution is, that I put both you and Josh on 'IGNORE' and I please ask that both of you do the same with me.

Mods - There is again, nothing offensive in my response. Surely, I have the democratic right to respond to unwarranted allegation and defend myself against it with the truth.

Why should I put you on ignore I don't have anyone on ignore and I'm not going to start now. I don't need you to find solutions for me and whose posts I read or respond to thanks very much, you sort yourself out. Where do you get the idea that I think I own the forum, if I have an issue with something you have said I will say it, thats how the forum works whether you have been here for a day or 10 years, if you think I have overstepped the mark please report me or address yourself directly to me rather than writing about it in post directed at another member.