[bots]

Originally Posted by Livia

A fish not an elephant. What did you do with the fish, did you eat it or throw it back?

Shooting an animal for thousands of dollars with a high-powered rifle with no risk at all to yourself is not a basic instinct.

Was the elephant an endangered species? Was the hunter breaking the law? If the answer to both questions is no, then there is no justification for the outcry toward the hunter. Lobby to get elephants protected, lobby to get hunting banned. It is completely wrong to target people for doing things if they are perfectly legal.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Was the elephant an endangered species? Was the hunter breaking the law? If the answer to both questions is no, then there is no justification for the outcry toward the hunter. Lobby to get elephants protected, lobby to get hunting banned. It is completely wrong to target people for doing things if they are perfectly legal.

There are two way to look at this. If it's legal, is it automatically moral? Well, no, it isn't. Also, this is Zimbabwe we're talking about. Zimbabwe. Possibly one of the most corrupt regimes in the world so you assuming this is all perfectly legal and above board because someone in Zimbabwe who probably makes money out of this disgusting trade, says it is.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Livia

There are two way to look at this. If it's legal, is it automatically moral? Well, no, it isn't. Also, this is Zimbabwe we're talking about. Zimbabwe. Possibly one of the most corrupt regimes in the world so you assuming this is all perfectly legal and above board because someone in Zimbabwe who probably makes money out of this disgusting trade, says it is.

You don't win cases in court based on morality. I don't want to come across as overly harsh, but there is a point of principle here. Those suggesting the hunter should be killed etc, are actually in instances like this more in the wrong than the hunter

There are ways to change these things, by changing peoples views, lobbying for protection and getting these things made illegal. Lynch parties are not the solution.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

You don't win cases in court based on morality. I don't want to come across as overly harsh, but there is a point of principle here. Those suggesting the hunter should be killed etc, are actually in instances like this more in the wrong than the hunter

There are ways to change these things, by changing peoples views, lobbying for protection and getting these things made illegal. Lynch parties are not the solution.

Are you saying that a lawyer should never talk or believe there is such a thing as unfair or unjust laws? laws that are immoral or harmful or morally unfair?

We are bound to get some emotional reactions with a story like this. This sort of story causes extreme anger and distress and those emotions are bound to create some very harsh reactions.

Good samaritans have been lobbying to protect such animals for many years. Charitable organizations have been educating entire colonies of people about the wrongs of the ivory trade and fur trade but these countries are desperately poor, so when some hobnob westerner comes along with more money than they could ever dream imaginable, big game trophies will continue to be slaughtered.

The people we need to educate are the westerners but where do we find them? how do we even know who they are? Naming and shaming seems to be the only tool we presently have.

[bots]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Are you saying that a lawyer should never talk or believe there is such a thing as unfair or unjust laws? laws that are immoral or harmful or morally unfair?

We are bound to get some emotional reactions with a story like this. This sort of story causes extreme anger and distress and those emotions are bound to create some very harsh reactions.

Good samaritans have been lobbying to protect such animals for many years. Charitable organizations have been educating entire colonies of people about the wrongs of the ivory trade and fur trade but these countries are desperately poor, so when some hobnob westerner comes along with more money than they could ever dream imaginable, big game trophies will continue to be slaughtered.

The people we need to educate are the westerners but where do we find them? how do we even know who they are? Naming and shaming seems to be the only tool we presently have.

With respect the views expressed on this thread have been a lot stronger than that. It is from reactions such as these that people take irresponsible actions into their own hands and end up being on the wrong side of the law.

Illegal Lynch mobs are not going to achieve anything.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

You don't win cases in court based on morality. I don't want to come across as overly harsh, but there is a point of principle here. Those suggesting the hunter should be killed etc, are actually in instances like this more in the wrong than the hunter

There are ways to change these things, by changing peoples views, lobbying for protection and getting these things made illegal. Lynch parties are not the solution.

I am well aware what wins in court. However, that doesn't mean much in Zimbabwe. I'm not suggesting he be killed, however I would have a Thatcher-style party if he and all his ridiculous mates died.

What do you think organisations like the IFAW have been doing for decades? But money talks... There is no justification for what this man's done, whether you believe it was legal or not.

[Cal.]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Was the elephant an endangered species? Was the hunter breaking the law? If the answer to both questions is no, then there is no justification for the outcry toward the hunter. Lobby to get elephants protected, lobby to get hunting banned. It is completely wrong to target people for doing things if they are perfectly legal.

Trash. Who cares if it's legal or not, the elephants whole life was ended because a guy wanted to get some sick sense of pleasure from pulling a trigger and watching it fall down and die. Honestly have no idea what possessed you to try and defend this.

[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Who Is She?

Trash. Who cares if it's legal or not, the elephants whole life was ended because a guy wanted to get some sick sense of pleasure from pulling a trigger and watching it fall down and die. Honestly have no idea what possessed you to try and defend this.

Because if the senseless killing of a specific animal is legal then we're all obliged to agree with it. Apparently.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Who Is She?

Trash. Who cares if it's legal or not, the elephants whole life was ended because a guy wanted to get some sick sense of pleasure from pulling a trigger and watching it fall down and die. Honestly have no idea what possessed you to try and defend this.

With respect that is an emotional response not a realistic one. Hunting is a legal sport. I am simply defending someone's legal rights, which quite frankly in the scheme of things is more important. I am not saying that I condone what the hunter did, I am saying he is legally entitled to do what he did. If that is to change, then campaign for it to be made illegal. Don't attack me for defending someone's legal rights

[Ammi]

..just to add to what bitontheslide has said and also touching on what Niamh said about instilling huge fines to preserve species...the governments have already 'offered bids' to hunters for these killings because sadly they are legal and a large part of that is meant to go to the National Parks anyway to help with conversation...(ironic and I would doubt that it does go there with corruption etc..although it may do because National Park Rangers do guide the hunts)....so they can't really then instil huge fines for something that they're not only taken payment for but offered themselves ...the whole thing just sickens me, that someone would actually want to do these things to beautiful animals ...but then there are people enabling them as well....so as bitonthe slide said, the only way will ever be to campaign to make it illegal...