[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Considering the history of Britain, i seriously doubt he is strong, powerful or clever enough to "ruin" the UK. The Uk has made some seriously big blunders, committed atrocities on a giant scale, and suffered HUGE setbacks in the past. Cameron is small potatoes considering the scale of problems Britain has faced in the past. i am confident, that the UK (as well as the US and most of western Europe) has faced much more trying times in the past, and he could'nt "ruin" the UK even if he was actually trying to. That is the power of democracy.

Did George Bush "ruin" the US? no, we are still the strongest nation in the world and getting stronger everyday. If W Bush couldn't "ruin" the US, the worst president in modern American history, then Cameron doesn't even have a chance of "ruining" the UK.

now Corbyn??? that's a different question. there is something about him that seems more sinister.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Yeah Osborne's legacy will be bigger than Camerons. He's the brains behind economic policy, most of their long-term policies and is likely to be next leader.

Cameron will go down as an average Prime Minister IMO. He has overseen a solid - though by no means bulletproof - recovery, sought to modernise the party through initiatives like gay marriage and increased female representation, and overall been a very pragmatic leader who has ensured stable government even in a coalition. At other times its true that he has dithered, had several fiascos like tax credits and the Syria vote, he seems to lack any real convictions and he hasn't been able to fulfil a lot of his stated aims

An average leader? Yes. I can even see the case for people who would say he is a bad one. But ruin of the country? That's just sensationalism, and its not a view that would find much credence in any serious commentary.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Considering the history of Britain, i seriously doubt he is strong, powerful or clever enough to "ruin" the UK. The Uk has made some seriously big blunders, committed atrocities on a giant scale, and suffered HUGE setbacks in the past. Cameron is small potatoes considering the scale of problems Britain has faced in the past. i am confident, that the UK (as well as the US and most of western Europe) has faced much more trying times in the past, and he could'nt "ruin" the UK even if he was actually trying to. That is the power of democracy.

Did George Bush "ruin" the US? no, we are still the strongest nation in the world and getting stronger everyday. If W Bush couldn't "ruin" the US, the worst president in modern American history, then Cameron doesn't even have a chance of "ruining" the UK.

now Corbyn??? that's a different question. there is something about him that seems more sinister.

Lostalex, I do read your posts and the vast majority of the time I agree with them too.
However the USA,great Nation that it is, is very different from the UK.
Also, I don't recall hearing about any States of the USA actually wanting to break away and hold a referendum to do so from the USA.

The UK is made up of only 4 Nations,England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland,to lose a quarter of those Nations would be a disaster for the UK,yet it nearly came about, under this Prime Minister we have and this Govt.
The issue has not gone away either, his full promise to Scotland is still to be implemented to their satisfaction.
His messing about with the EU issue could well bring all back to the forefront as to Scottish independence if as a result of his dithering, the UK votes to leave the EU.
Were it to happen that then Scotland left, then there is not in reality a United Kingdom in place anymore.

As for Corbyn being sinister, well I would dispute that myself,I find far more sinister what this man as PM now is doing to the most vulnerable in the UK, than anything Corbyn may stand for to be honest.

[Jamie89]

As much as I'm interested in politics, I do get a bit lost with it sometimes, when it comes to a close analysis of one individual person and their policies for example. So I can't really get into the whole 'what has and hasn't he done for us' discussion. But from what I do know about him, I know that I don't like or respect him. I don't however think that he has the capability of ruining the country. Even though he's the leader, there's a whole government in place with lots of different people sharing different responsibilities. I know there's the whole 'captain going down with the ship' thing, but I think that if the country was to go to ruin (which I don't think it will anyway tbh) there would be many more people than just Cameron to blame.

[Kizzy]

Corbyn is sinister... is the fact that our current govt is being investigated by the UN for human rights violations not smack as sinister?

[bots]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Corbyn is sinister... is the fact that our current govt is being investigated by the UN for human rights violations not smack as sinister?

Blair and the labour party were investigated for the same every other week.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Blair and the labour party were investigated for the same every other week.

Then this lot should have learned the lesson from them then.Clearly they have ignored same.

[Kazanne]

The country was on the road to ruin way before Cameron was elected, I like him,he doesn't get everything right but I do think he is trying to get the country back on track,afterall what would he gain by doing things just to piss people off,he will never please everyone,but who can? I certainly wouldn't want his job,when every ill that befalls the country is blamed on him,so sorry guys,I voted for him and don't regret it,

[joeysteele]

I didn't vote for him, would never vote for him and will never in my whole life regret not doing so just for the rotten heartless things I have witnessed personally as to all he has done to those who are sick disabled and most vulnerable.

Also 'if' his referendum does result in an exit vote from the EU and then the Scots demand a new independence vote and then split, he will have for sure 'ruined' the United Kingdom because after that there will be no United Kingdom, just fragments he leaves of it.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

The country was on the road to ruin way before Cameron was elected, I like him,he doesn't get everything right but I do think he is trying to get the country back on track,afterall what would he gain by doing things just to piss people off,he will never please everyone,but who can? I certainly wouldn't want his job,when every ill that befalls the country is blamed on him,so sorry guys,I voted for him and don't regret it,

I have to agree Kaz.
If there was another election tomorrow then I would vote the same way again.
More so now that the clowns are in charge of the opposition.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Blair and the labour party were investigated for the same every other week.

Do you have any support for that claim?

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by MTVN

All things considered it is fairly solid, and compared to the rest of Europe we're in ok shape. Its not completely secure no but then it's hard to have any recovery that is that secure when we're as exposed as we are to world markets and the global economy, and that's just a fact of life now really.

Toy Soldier is bang on right with that comment of his you quoted.

What's really alarming is, people still believe we are in okay shape. We are not and its got nothing to do with our global financialization and all to do with upping the percentage on this ludicrous 'austerity project'.

Consumerism is now at an all time low, government spending is at an all time low and so is the GDP. This sort of radical austerity plan that’s been going on over the past three and a bit years, has reduced growth so much that its undercut government revenue and if you undercut government revenue, its impossible to shrink the deficit. http://europeansnapshot.com/2013/08/

Its disturbing that the UK’s performance is worse than France. This is what the Wall Street Journal had to say about them this time last year. http://www.wsj.com/articles/france-d...ess-1416254909

Between 2012 and 2013 the Conservatives suddenly appeared to see sense by considerably lowering their pull back on austerity. Our economy came out of stagnation and actually started to recover, things started looking up but when it came to Cameron's election campaign he promised his nation a further 2% cut in government spending and he lied to his nation by telling us all that 'austerity' was the ticket that had lifted our economy, when in fact it was the complete opposite.

Its not what Cameron and Osborne are doing to our economy that frightens me; its that people in general don't understand what they are doing or worse, they believe all this mess is for the greater good!. Whilst Joe public still blame the Labour party for the mess we now find ourselves in, (which makes zero sense) our present government are destroying the future of Britain, whilst reassuring us that its all going to plan.


https://www.oxfam.org/sites/www.oxfa...-120913-en.pdf

According to Oxfam
if these spending cuts continue 800,000 British children will live in poverty over the next decade.

Over 1.5 million working age adults will fall into extreme poverty.

and the bottom 10% of British earners will have seen their incomes fall 38% over this governments five year term.

What's sad is, the victims of this result will be many of the British people who presently believe Cameron and Osborne are harmless.

[Livia]

People on the right will say no and quote examples, people on the left will say yes, and quote examples.

[DemolitionRed]

Anyone who believes we need a vote of no confidence should sign this https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104471

[Kizzy]

Where are the examples that he is doing anything of merit for the country?

[DemolitionRed]

oops!

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Where are the examples that he is doing anything of merit for the country?

It depends Kizzy on what some see as merit depending on who or what they care about.

People who are sick and poor are getting hammered by him and his govt so any success he is having is bought in a good part off the backs of the most vulnerable.
That is seen unbelievably as right and as success by some,(I honestly get more disillusioned by the UK day by day).
Well not so by me and it never will be by me, those people matter to me and those people literally got thrown into the lions den with not a scrap of hope at all in May by the 36.8% of voters who most of them likely couldn't care a toss about the vulnerable.

[user104658]

There are worse high-level Tories.

That's about the best that can be said for him.

[bots]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Then this lot should have learned the lesson from them then.Clearly they have ignored same.

its not the point. We don't subscribe to many edicts laid out by the UN or any other authority, so saying such and such an organisations investigating is entirely irrelevant. Its a simple fact that many of these organisations are on a planet of their own, and few if any subscribe to them.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Toy Soldier is bang on right with that comment of his you quoted.

What's really alarming is, people still believe we are in okay shape. We are not and its got nothing to do with our global financialization and all to do with upping the percentage on this ludicrous 'austerity project'.

Consumerism is now at an all time low, government spending is at an all time low and so is the GDP. This sort of radical austerity plan that’s been going on over the past three and a bit years, has reduced growth so much that its undercut government revenue and if you undercut government revenue, its impossible to shrink the deficit. http://europeansnapshot.com/2013/08/

Its disturbing that the UK’s performance is worse than France. This is what the Wall Street Journal had to say about them this time last year. http://www.wsj.com/articles/france-d...ess-1416254909

Between 2012 and 2013 the Conservatives suddenly appeared to see sense by considerably lowering their pull back on austerity. Our economy came out of stagnation and actually started to recover, things started looking up but when it came to Cameron's election campaign he promised his nation a further 2% cut in government spending and he lied to his nation by telling us all that 'austerity' was the ticket that had lifted our economy, when in fact it was the complete opposite.

Its not what Cameron and Osborne are doing to our economy that frightens me; its that people in general don't understand what they are doing or worse, they believe all this mess is for the greater good!. Whilst Joe public still blame the Labour party for the mess we now find ourselves in, (which makes zero sense) our present government are destroying the future of Britain, whilst reassuring us that its all going to plan.


https://www.oxfam.org/sites/www.oxfa...-120913-en.pdf

According to Oxfam
if these spending cuts continue 800,000 British children will live in poverty over the next decade.

Over 1.5 million working age adults will fall into extreme poverty.

and the bottom 10% of British earners will have seen their incomes fall 38% over this governments five year term.

What's sad is, the victims of this result will be many of the British people who presently believe Cameron and Osborne are harmless.

It's not disturbing at all. It's well known now that France has got its act together since the difficult times you refer to there and that their economy has improved significantly in the last year.

Judge our country against most indicators of a solid economy and across the board we're in ok shape: employment is up, growth continues even if it slowed in the last quarter, the pound is strong, inflation is not a concern, business investment is increasing, and earnings and household spending have been slowly picking up as well. I'm hardly claiming the Tories have performed miracles but overall it's not bad. Barring another global shock - which is of course possible - we are very unlikely to be in serious trouble anytime soon. Sorry if that makes me just another ignorant member of Joe Public but it is possible that other people have also read widely and come to different conclusions to you.

[bots]

Originally Posted by MTVN

It's not disturbing at all. It's well known now that France has got its act together since the difficult times you refer to there and that their economy has improved significantly in the last year.

Judge our country against most indicators of a solid economy and across the board we're in ok shape: employment is up, growth continues even if it slowed in the last quarter, the pound is strong, inflation is not a concern, business investment is increasing, and earnings and household spending have been slowly picking up as well. I'm hardly claiming the Tories have performed miracles but overall it's not bad. Barring another global shock - which is of course possible - we are very unlikely to be in serious trouble anytime soon. Sorry if that makes me just another ignorant member of Joe Public but it is possible that other people have also read widely and come to different conclusions to you.

well said sir

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

It depends Kizzy on what some see as merit depending on who or what they care about.

People who are sick and poor are getting hammered by him and his govt so any success he is having is bought in a good part off the backs of the most vulnerable.
That is seen unbelievably as right and as success by some,(I honestly get more disillusioned by the UK day by day).
Well not so by me and it never will be by me, those people matter to me and those people literally got thrown into the lions den with not a scrap of hope at all in May by the 36.8% of voters who most of them likely couldn't care a toss about them..

I fail to see one triumph Joey, the selling off of infrastructure and property, the allowances for foreign investment in nuclear capabilities in this country rather than their own.
The removal of civil rights, public services, medical, social, civic, legal, transport, the restrictions of human rights, protest, unions, and the possibility that communications can and will be compromised.
Those 36.8% will rue the day like the rest of us.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by MTVN

It's not disturbing at all. It's well known now that France has got its act together since the difficult times you refer to there and that their economy has improved significantly in the last year.

Judge our country against most indicators of a solid economy and across the board we're in ok shape: employment is up, growth continues even if it slowed in the last quarter, the pound is strong, inflation is not a concern, business investment is increasing, and earnings and household spending have been slowly picking up as well. I'm hardly claiming the Tories have performed miracles but overall it's not bad. Barring another global shock - which is of course possible - we are very unlikely to be in serious trouble anytime soon. Sorry if that makes me just another ignorant member of Joe Public but it is possible that other people have also read widely and come to different conclusions to you.

Brilliantly put MTVN.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by MTVN

It's not disturbing at all. It's well known now that France has got its act together since the difficult times you refer to there and that their economy has improved significantly in the last year.

Judge our country against most indicators of a solid economy and across the board we're in ok shape: employment is up, growth continues even if it slowed in the last quarter, the pound is strong, inflation is not a concern, business investment is increasing, and earnings and household spending have been slowly picking up as well. I'm hardly claiming the Tories have performed miracles but overall it's not bad. Barring another global shock - which is of course possible - we are very unlikely to be in serious trouble anytime soon. Sorry if that makes me just another ignorant member of Joe Public but it is possible that other people have also read widely and come to different conclusions to you.

What is the deficit?....

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I fail to see one triumph Joey, the selling off of infrastructure and property, the allowances for foreign investment in nuclear capabilities in this country rather than their own.
The removal of civil rights, public services, medical, social, civic, legal, transport, the restrictions of human rights, protest, unions, and the possibility that communications can and will be compromised.
Those 36.8% will rue the day like the rest of us.

I agree with you Kizzy,I am glad you are on here or I'd likely go insane on this.

The only change I would make to your post is a good number of that 36.8% will rue the day but only once it hits them in their pocket or personally.
Most of tem are not bothered about the devastation being inflicted on the vulnerable, who now are having likely the covering of cost of their just appeals as to loss of benefits taken away by this wretched excuse for a govt.
meaning even being poor, they lose now the right to justice.