[Drew.]

I still can't get my head around a man this dangerous thought to be living in Syria actually living right under their noses

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Drew.

I still can't get my head around a man this dangerous thought to be living in Syria actually living right under their noses

And where the French have got this information from so quickly?

[Drew.]

someome must have snitched on them

[bots]

More than 200 Russian people including children are blown up by an ISIS bomb - world reaction - oh, that's a shame

More than 100 French people are killed in an ISIS attack - world reaction - mass grief, outrage, commitment to help in any way possible, governments stand together, landmarks lit up in French colours etc etc etc

[arista]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

More than 200 Russian people including children are blown up by an ISIS bomb - world reaction - oh, that's a shame

More than 100 French people are killed in an ISIS attack - world reaction - mass grief, outrage, commitment to help in any way possible, governments stand together, landmarks lit up in French colours etc etc etc

Yes its Normal
sadly

[arista]

Originally Posted by Drew.

someome must have snitched on them

Yes good on them,


Great they have 3 Suspects Alive
Police will Force it out of them now
make a Great Film

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

More than 200 Russian people including children are blown up by an ISIS bomb - world reaction - oh, that's a shame

More than 100 French people are killed in an ISIS attack - world reaction - mass grief, outrage, commitment to help in any way possible, governments stand together, landmarks lit up in French colours etc etc etc

I know where you are coming from the impact of the plane was "diminished" by the mixed messages as to what happened to it, ISIS claimed it but that was quickly brushed aside, The bomb at Ankara killing over 100 was quickly forgotton as well, it makes no sense really why some atrocities get more of a reaction than others.

[MTVN]

It does make some sense though. Paris carried a greater impact because of the shock of it happening on European soil in a country that has been stable and peaceful for decades. It's also a country that, for the vast majority of us, we're likely to have more affinity with and feel closer to than Ankara or Beirut. It's true that much worse violence goes on everyday in Syria, Iraq etc. and that worse violence has occurred in Lebanon, Gaza and other countries but its exactly because the violence is so frequent there that it feels like another world to us, it's very hard to comprehend. Going to a rock concert or drinking at a bar on a Friday evening we can comprehend. There's more a feeling that that could have been us who went out to enjoy the start of the weekend and somehow ended up at the centre of a deadly terror attack.

[Drew.]

Good post Matthew

[Niamh.]

Yeah, that's it in a nutshell really Matt

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by MTVN

It does make some sense though. Paris carried a greater impact because of the shock of it happening on European soil in a country that has been stable and peaceful for decades. It's also a country that, for the vast majority of us, we're likely to have more affinity with and feel closer to than Ankara or Beirut. It's true that much worse violence goes on everyday in Syria, Iraq etc. and that worse violence has occurred in Lebanon, Gaza and other countries but its exactly because the violence is so frequent there that it feels like another world to us, it's very hard to comprehend. Going to a rock concert or drinking at a bar on a Friday evening we can comprehend. There's more a feeling that that could have been us who went out to enjoy the start of the weekend and somehow ended up at the centre of a deadly terror attack.

I agree, it's too close to home these people are too like us for it not to have an impact.
Our norms, values, skin tone, are very similar.

[arista]

Terrorist Made to go Naked as they pull him out

[Kizzy]

Is this in France, are the police British?

[bots]

The Russian people were at a holiday destination very popular with people in the UK, they were travelling on a plane on their way home, the same as everyone else does. Plenty there for everyone to identify and associate with.

Russia are in there fighting ISIS, that's why they were targeted, and those with the same goals went .... ho hum

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

The Russian people were at a holiday destination very popular with people in the UK, they were travelling on a plane on their way home, the same as everyone else does. Plenty there for everyone to identify and associate with.

Russia are in there fighting ISIS, that's why they were targeted, and those with the same goals went .... ho hum

Yeah I get the argument on Ankara, but a plane load of tourists on their way home from a popular British tourist destination would it have received more outrage if the passengers were French not Russian, pretty disgusting really, how can we not identify with that ?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I agree, it's too close to home these people are too like us for it not to have an impact.
Our norms, values, skin tone, are very similar.

Our skin tone? Last time I checked Russians were white!

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Our skin tone? Last time I checked Russians were white!

I didn't say they weren't!
The post I quoted didn't mention Russians, maybe I should just state for clarification other white Europeans then?

[MTVN]

I think the Russian plane bomb did provoke quite a big outpouring of sympathy. Like you pointed out though Cherie, it wasn't clear in the days after what had caused it whereas the Paris attacks unfolded in front of our eyes and indeed the operation still goes on with all of us watching: it's still not clear if the mastermind has been caught or is still out there. You're right there is plenty to associate with in the attack on Rusia which is why that bomb has in turn got more coverage than the Ankara attack did. Fact remains that the Paris attack took place on our doorstep though, on European soil, whereas Egypt might be a popular holiday destination but it has battled Islamist insurgency for decades.

No one death is more tragic than the other but I don't think there's any agenda behind the coverage that different attacks get or the impact that it has on people. Such things are dependent on a number of different, complicated factors, it's a bit simplistic to reduce it down to a death toll and conclude a lack of sympathy for Russian citizens by that.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I didn't say they weren't!
The post I quoted didn't mention Russians, maybe I should just state for clarification other white Europeans then?

Were You were talking about the French. A significant proportion of whom are black! I think skin tone has nothing to do with it

[Kizzy]

Destroy IS or accept it is a world power'
Posted at 13:47
Col Richard Kemp, the former head of the international terrorism team at the UK's Joint Intelligence Committee, tells BBC News events in and around Paris over the past few days underline "the real seriousness of the problem that France faces".

President Hollande was right to say the country was at war, he adds, and the conflict needs to be "fought like a war".

Talking about actions in Syria and Iraq, he says Western countries will not be able to defeat so-called Islamic State from the air alone - ground action will be needed too.

And he adds that France and its allies need to destroy IS or accept they will become a world power for years to come.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-34840858

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I think the Russian plane bomb did provoke quite a big outpouring of sympathy. Like you pointed out though Cherie, it wasn't clear in the days after what had caused it whereas the Paris attacks unfolded in front of our eyes and indeed the operation still goes on with all of us watching: it's still not clear if the mastermind has been caught or is still out there. You're right there is plenty to associate with in the attack on Rusia which is why that bomb has in turn got more coverage than the Ankara attack did. Fact remains that the Paris attack took place on our doorstep though, on European soil, whereas Egypt might be a popular holiday destination but it has battled Islamist insurgency for decades.

No one death is more tragic than the other but I don't think there's any agenda behind the coverage that different attacks get or the impact that it has on people. Such things are dependent on a number of different, complicated factors, it's a bit simplistic to reduce it down to a death toll and conclude a lack of sympathy for Russian citizens by that.

Is anyone surprised by an attack though I just wonder what has taken them so long to attack a football ground and a music venue maybe it was the brutality of the attacks that have resonated, gunning people down one by one in a music hall is pretty grim, we are used to bombs on planes I guess

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Were You were talking about the French. A significant proportion of whom are black! I think skin tone has nothing to do with it

I think you're misunderstanding my point, that being terrorist activity in other parts of the world, as mentioned in MTVNs post earlier...

'It's also a country that, for the vast majority of us, we're likely to have more affinity with and feel closer to than Ankara or Beirut. It's true that much worse violence goes on everyday in Syria, Iraq etc. and that worse violence has occurred in Lebanon, Gaza and other countries but its exactly because the violence is so frequent there that it feels like another world to us'.

I was not talking about the French or the Russians, I was agreeing with MTVN, that those who have shared norms, values and skin tone... other white Europeans receive our grief in the main as opposed to the rest of the world.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Our skin tone? Last time I checked Russians were white!

You are on form today Cherie.

[Ammi]

..I can only speak for myself with this and the comparison of the two... in the Paris attack, we were watching it live, many of us were and yes, obviously the whole attack and loss of life was shocking but it was also the hostage situation, which went on for several hours and trying to imagine how those people were feeling, how terrified they would be and also their families, friends who knew that they had gone to the concert..so it was like feeling it with them, not the same or nearly the same obviously but it wasn't an after event, it was something that was happening and unfolding before our eyes and a section of a city in terror...for me personally and how I related to it all, was that I had walked past those places and down those streets, stayed around 100 yards from where some people had been killed and when it's a familiar place I think that's a factor as well and I also have a niece who lives in Paris with her boyfriend so my thoughts were for their safety as well until I knew that they were ok.../but I don't think that I felt any differently about the loss of life or the families in the 'after' of Paris either as I did with the passengers and their families ...

[Shaun]

Isn't the whole point about the lack of an outpouring of grief and international condemnation of the Russian plane bomb purely because it took a week or so, if not more, to 100% determine that it even was a bomb? I certainly recall the initial reports being "experts can't rule out a technical fault" rather than anything to do with terrorism.

Either way I find the whole "comparing acts of terrorism and tragedy" thing a tad perverse and sad.