[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

If people could stop talking about young people like they're idiots that'd be great thanks

It is extremely insulting to do so and wrong to generalise anyway on all in such an age group,I agree Josh.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

If people could stop talking about young people like they're idiots that'd be great thanks

Josh, just be comfortable in the knowledge that you know more about politics than most people older than you ever will.

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Do you think politics should be part of senior schools national curriculum ? Politics play such a big part in our life whether we know it or not.

I've never been a supporter of the national curriculum, but it would be a necessary evil if we were to start teaching politics as one of the main subjects.

Yes I think it would be very beneficial, even if it were one period a fortnight. We need to know what's going on and how our country as a democracy is run. Perhaps it could even increase voter turnouts which seem to be on the decline.

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Josh, just be comfortable in the knowledge that you know more about politics than most people older than you ever will.

Thanks

[kirklancaster]

When I was young I was a staunch Labour Party supporter, and Joey Steele was a staunch Tory supporter.

We were both highly educated, intelligent, and both BELIEVED with all our heart in our respective political choices.

I am not saying that SOME 16 year olds are not precocious and not mature beyond their years, nor am I saying that 16 year olds CANNOT be socially and politically aware.

But what I AM saying, is that the MAJORITY of 16 year olds in this country cannot SPELL politics let alone understand them.

This is why, I do not favour 16 year old being given the vote.

A vote in immature irresponsible, impressionable and naive hands is as dangerous as a firearm.

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

When I was young I was a staunch Labour Party supporter, and Joey Steele was a staunch Tory supporter.

We were both highly educated, intelligent, and both BELIEVED with all our heart in our respective political choices.

I am not saying that SOME 16 year olds are not precocious and not mature beyond their years, nor am I saying that 16 year olds CANNOT be socially and politically aware.

But what I AM saying, is that the MAJORITY of 16 year olds in this country cannot SPELL politics let alone understand them.

This is why, I do not favour 16 year old being given the vote.

A vote in immature irresponsible, impressionable and naive hands is as dangerous as a firearm.

Just because your views changed, does not mean that they were cast stupidly or irresponsibly - they simply changed. And we aren't going to disqualify swing voters from elections.

"No taxation without representation" also rings to mind.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

Just because your views changed, does not mean that they were cast stupidly or irresponsibly - they simply changed. And we aren't going to disqualify swing voters from elections.

"No taxation without representation" also rings to mind.

Hi Josh.
Just to explain,my mind changed from what I personally started to witness firstly among the homeless then of those being robbed by this govt of due entitlements as to benefits.
Once I saw that happening against the sick and disabled,even in my time at Uni and then in my work in law afterwards,that is when I changed my view as to what party was the better for me as to politics.

I was still more a Conservative sympathiser than a Labour one until I was 19,it was around 2012 when I turned 20, I had seen enough of their heartlessness and injustice that turned me away from them completely and then get behind Labour it wasn't at 16 or 17 I changed my views but when I reached my 20s.

Even the situation in Labour at present is far more appealing than supporting anything this PM particularly and this wretched govt has on offer as to its heartlessness.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

When I was young I was a staunch Labour Party supporter, and Joey Steele was a staunch Tory supporter.

We were both highly educated, intelligent, and both BELIEVED with all our heart in our respective political choices.

I am not saying that SOME 16 year olds are not precocious and not mature beyond their years, nor am I saying that 16 year olds CANNOT be socially and politically aware.

But what I AM saying, is that the MAJORITY of 16 year olds in this country cannot SPELL politics let alone understand them.

This is why, I do not favour 16 year old being given the vote.

A vote in immature irresponsible, impressionable and naive hands is as dangerous as a firearm.

So the majority of students who are ready to sit their GCSEs, the benchmark of secondary education, accepted by employers as proof of literacy and numeracy competency in the UK cant spell or grasp the basics of British politics... That's a really shortsighted and unfair accusation.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

So the majority of students who are ready to sit their GCSEs, the benchmark of secondary education, accepted by employers as proof of literacy and numeracy competency in the UK cant spell or grasp the basics of British politics... That's a really shortsighted and unfair accusation.

its not its realitistic

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

So the majority of students who are ready to sit their GCSEs, the benchmark of secondary education, accepted by employers as proof of literacy and numeracy competency in the UK cant spell or grasp the basics of British politics... That's a really shortsighted and unfair accusation.

Spot on again Kizzy, I couldn't agree more.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

If people could stop talking about young people like they're idiots that'd be great thanks

ahh the far left showing false outrage on behalf of others again.....they did the same claiming Christmas offended muslims, it didn't, but the left created the division, they pretended they were the people to fix the division. maybe the majority of 16 year olds aren't prepared for voting , maybe some don't want to vote, lets ask them not those who pretend to represent them

[smudgie]

Personally I think a bit of life's experience under your belt can be as good if not better than intelligence.
18 is young enough in my opinion.

[bots]

I don't have a problem with the voting age changing if the decision is as a result of the proper procedure being followed with a bill going through parliament, discussed and voted on. If that were done, the legal age is changed in a democratic way.

However, the house of lords tagging it on as an amendment is not following the spirit of democracy in my opinion, that's what I object to, that and the knowledge that they do so just to disrupt timetables and the democratic process.

[Marsh.]

Pulled out of his arse obviously. :/

[bots]

Surely its very simple, there is a voting age that is deemed legal and acceptable. That is currently 18. Any change to that requires a bill gaining a majority.

We could argue the pro's and cons of changing all day, but provided it is consistently applied and done for genuine reasons and not just to sway the results on a particular issue or further some political agenda, who cares.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Surely its very simple, there is a voting age that is deemed legal and acceptable. That is currently 18. Any change to that requires a bill gaining a majority.

We could argue the pro's and cons of changing all day, but provided it is consistently applied and done for genuine reasons and not just to sway the results on a particular issue or further some political agenda, who cares.

yep that's democracy at work

[empire]

lets point out a few things, britain's political thinking, and the british public are highly flawed, giving 16 year olds the vote, is just adding more dead wood, to a bent political system, every five years, most 16 year olds, will vote only who their parents tell them to vote for, instead of reading what every party sets out for, the problem in britain is that their is too much loyal sheep voting, because that kid would say that his or her parents voted for this party, and there parents voted for the same party, I feel that these kids are just being used to make up lost votes that are not here anymore, I mean when was the last time that the election turn out near 50 million, that was some time ago.

[bots]

Just to balance the argument, there are many, many voters outside the 16-18 age group that are clueless about politics, have no idea what the differences are between the various parties and randomly place their X on the page. They are still entitled to vote.

The point being that education/knowledge is not a prerequisite to being able to vote

[DemolitionRed]

according to these two articles http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/to...it-the-tories/ http://www.conservativehome.com//the...ze.htmlarticle, the Conservatives would gain votes if the voting age was lowered.

I firmly believe that young voters are much more likely to follow the same political views as their parents. I know I did when I was 16. Their thoughts influenced my thoughts because I wasn't really interested enough at that age to look any further.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I firmly believe that young voters are much more likely to follow the same political views as their parents. I know I did when I was 16. Their thoughts influenced my thoughts because I wasn't really interested enough at that age to look any further.

I know I've quoted my own post but its relevant to what I want to add.

If we bring down the vote then we need to be careful that its not open to corruption.

It has to be that Teachers within state and privately run schools can't influence votes and there can't be politically prepared pre-election campaigns taking place within schools.

There has to be more education on national politics/economics because without this, most of the state run schools won't bother to go and vote whilst all of the private schools will.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I know I've quoted my own post but its relevant to what I want to add.

If we bring down the vote then we need to be careful that its not open to corruption.

It has to be that Teachers within state and privately run schools can't influence votes and there can't be politically prepared pre-election campaigns taking place within schools.

There has to be more education on national politics/economics because without this, most of the state run schools won't bother to go and vote whilst all of the private schools will.

Exactly one of my points; very young people ARE more susceptible to being influenced by sinister forces who have their own agenda.

It happens in some institutions now with Religion by those with authority - both Pro and Anti.

Prisons are the biggest breeding grounds for young people being converted to Islam for instance.

And yes, there DOES need to be comprehensive education on politics if we are to lower the voting age.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

according to these two articles http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/to...it-the-tories/ http://www.conservativehome.com//the...ze.htmlarticle, the Conservatives would gain votes if the voting age was lowered.

I firmly believe that young voters are much more likely to follow the same political views as their parents. I know I did when I was 16. Their thoughts influenced my thoughts because I wasn't really interested enough at that age to look any further.

It definitely makes Winston Churchill's statement look out of sync when you see these articles.

[Niamh.]

You're not considered an adult till you're 18 so no I don't think you should be able to vote till then either tbqh

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

You're not considered an adult till you're 18 so no I don't think you should be able to vote till then either tbqh

But you can have a job and start a family at 16. It is a grey area though.

I'm starting to wonder actually (and I might be alone here ) whether there should be no age limit at all on voting. Now before anyone starts with how ridiculous that is and babies voting etc lol, here me out. Most of the reasoning behind 16 year olds not being allowed the vote, seems to be that they aren't knowledgeable enough and don't understand politics well enough. But this can be applied to so many adults that it doesn't seem to fit as a reasonable argument to me. Of course the ratios are going to be different in those age groups, but if political knowledge is a factor in determining who gets a vote then maybe there's another solution. What if at the polls, in addition to casting a vote, you have to also fill out some sort of short quiz, that would demonstrate your knowledge of the parties policies etc?
Really I'm just thinking out load here and it might seem like a silly idea because it's so different to how we currently do things, but would it not ensure that all people who are knowledgeable of politics would cast a valid vote, and those who aren't, wouldn't? Solving the whole issue of 'well they shouldn't vote because they don't know anything about it'?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

But you can have a job and start a family at 16. It is a grey area though.

I'm starting to wonder actually (and I might be alone here ) whether there should be no age limit at all on voting. Now before anyone starts with how ridiculous that is and babies voting etc lol, here me out. Most of the reasoning behind 16 year olds not being allowed the vote, seems to be that they aren't knowledgeable enough and don't understand politics well enough. But this can be applied to so many adults that it doesn't seem to fit as a reasonable argument to me. Of course the ratios are going to be different in those age groups, but if political knowledge is a factor in determining who gets a vote then maybe there's another solution. What if at the polls, in addition to casting a vote, you have to also fill out some sort of short quiz, that would demonstrate your knowledge of the parties policies etc?
Really I'm just thinking out load here and it might seem like a silly idea because it's so different to how we currently do things, but would it not ensure that all people who are knowledgeable of politics would cast a valid vote, and those who aren't, wouldn't? Solving the whole issue of 'well they shouldn't vote because they don't know anything about it'?

Yes and the vast majority of 16 year olds either don't work or work part time jobs and are still in school, there has to be a line drawn somewhere and I believe as the majority of 16 year olds won't be living an adult life of working full time and raising a family then they shouldn't really be able to vote.

As for no age limit at all? That's a bit silly

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yes and the vast majority of 16 year olds either don't work or work part time jobs and are still in school, there has to be a line drawn somewhere and I believe as the majority of 16 year olds won't be living an adult life of working full time and raising a family then they shouldn't really be able to vote.

As for no age limit at all? That's a bit silly

Did you see my reasoning though? It's not so much about taking the age limit away and blanketly allowing everyone to vote, as much as it would be about refocusing on what criteria is used in determining who gets to vote ie. people who have no political knowledge v people who have political knowledge (as most of the reasoning I've seen on the thread seems to be suggesting a lack of political knowledge as the main reason 16 year olds shouldn't get to vote).