[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah, If they want to keep it in the schools that badly fine but atleast make it an optional subject like Home Ec and Art etc don't force it on people

I cannot do anything but agree with you Niamh, totally. It is an infuriating practice and needs stopping. I also agree that you should not HAVE to even contemplate sending your child to any other school which is more remote because of this ludicrous ruling.

I confronted my child's headmaster for FORCING him to learn about Islam and Muhammud in a C of E school at the same time he had prohibited Nativity plays at Christmas and the teaching of Christianity.

I do not shove my beliefs down my children's throats and I would be furious if some narrow-minded prat of a Head teacher tried to FORCE my children to accept HIS beliefs as part of their curriculum.

I feel like beating him/her up.

[JoshBB]

No subjects (barring perhaps English, Maths, Science) should be forced upon anyone.

[Ninastar]

No lessons should be 'forced' as such, but I also think religious studies (of all religions, not just one) is absolutely essential. We must learn the ways of most human life in order to understand how the world works.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Then make sociology or politics compulsory subjects?

What for A level? You can take both Sociology and RE at A level so the subject topics covered must be mutually exclusive

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I cannot do anything but agree with you Niamh, totally. It is an infuriating practice and needs stopping. I also agree that you should not HAVE to even contemplate sending your child to any other school which is more remote because of this ludicrous ruling.

I confronted my child's headmaster for FORCING him to learn about Islam and Muhammud in a C of E school at the same time he had prohibited Nativity plays at Christmas and the teaching of Christianity.

I do not shove my beliefs down my children's throats and I would be furious if some narrow-minded prat of a Head teacher tried to FORCE my children to accept HIS beliefs as part of their curriculum.

I feel like beating him/her up.

It's on the Irish curriculum Kirk, It's nothing to do with the Head

[Daniel-X]

I sort of see were you're coming from Niamh but RE in my school focuses a lot on sociological and political issues rather than just plain Cathlolic teaching. Nevertheless I do see why you're wondering is it an essential subject (particularly if your daughter does not attend a faith school)

[Jack_]

I'm always torn when it comes to this issue.

On the one hand I completely oppose the existence of faith schools, and any kind of religious practices such as communal praying, hymn singing etc, but when it comes to RE being a compulsory subject? Now that's a different matter.

As one of my Sixth Form teachers so beautifully put it when questioned as to why he also taught RE to lower school after the latest ever enjoyable class bout of religion-mocking, 'the more knowledge you have of something, the more equipped you are to pick apart its ridiculousness' (or words to that effect). And I think he's right. So long as RE is not biased, and is taught with the intention of making students more open minded, tolerant and qualified to make a decision on the merits of holding religious beliefs, I think it can only be a good thing.

And yes, sociology and politics should most definitely be compulsory subjects. From the age of 12.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Chaos

No lessons should be 'forced' as such, but I also think religious studies (of all religions, not just one) is absolutely essential. We must learn the ways of most human life in order to understand how the world works.

I agree with this. Maybe not that it's essential but definitely that there can be benefit to it. I'm not religious at all but I chose to do religious studies for my GCSE's (because I hated history and geography and had to pick one lol) and I found it really interesting, from a cultural perspective, and learning different peoples different way of lives. Even my RS teacher wasn't religious, but it wasn't about trying to force anything on to us, or make us believe anything, it was about teaching us about the world and the impact that all the different religions have, which I think is useful because whether you like it or not, it's a hugely influential part of society.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

What for A level? You can take both Sociology and RE at A level so the subject topics covered must be mutually exclusive

You suggested RE was useful for social science based professions, I fail to see why of the subjects needed RE is so important it has to be a compulsory subject.
Ireland is moving on in all areas, this is one where personally I feel it's still lagging.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You suggested RE was useful for social science based professions, I fail to see why of the subjects needed RE is so important it has to be a compulsory subject.
Ireland is moving on in all areas, this is one where personally I feel it's still lagging.

I was talking about my experience of the UK system Kizzy and I made the point in response to Niamh saying RE should not be a subject in any school

[Kizzy]

I was responding to your comment to Rubymoo though.
Maybe the threads getting a bit confused between the prevalence of faith schools in Ireland and just plain old RE that all schools teach?

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Livia

Because a lot of trouble in the world comes down to differences in religious thought. If you understand why there are differences you've got a better handle on the situation. I don't mean kids should be indoctrinated, but given the facts. And like I said before, if you don't know anything about a religion how can you come to the conclusion that you don't believe it?

I agree religion is important for kids to learn in a HISTORICAL context, in a HISTORY class, like learning about the Spanish Inquisition, or the Salem Witch trials, The Crusades, The Holocaust, etc... but it should be in a HISTORICAL context explaining how religious bigotry led to horrific acts against humans, they should not be taught THE actual religion, they should just be taught about how people were brainwashed by religion and it caused more human suffering.

Religion needs to be taught as history, not as religion.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Cherie

It's on the Irish curriculum Kirk, It's nothing to do with the Head

Thanks Cherie - I think I was so incensed because of my own experiences with my own kid I didn't think.

I do agree with having R.E. as part of a curriculum for broadening a child's knowledge, but why the hell is a mandatory exam necessary if a child and its parents KNOW that such a subject will form no part of that child's future?

I also agree that precious time spent having to 'swot' for a subject that will be absolutely no use 'career-wise' to a child once they have left school, adversely impacts on the student's ability to study for subjects which will be of immense usefulness.

[Cherie]

Coming back to the original point, Niamh have you a note of what topics will be covered in the lesson, there may be some that your daughter will find quite interesting, I know you are a non believer but like believers we shouldn't push our beliefs onto our children, it's not uncommon for children to have different views to their parents, here for LT announcing one of his children has become a Vicar : AND look on the bright side it might be an easy A plus grade in the final exam

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You suggested RE was useful for social science based professions, I fail to see why of the subjects needed RE is so important it has to be a compulsory subject.
Ireland is moving on in all areas, this is one where personally I feel it's still lagging.

Yeah for sure, this will be a tough one to break free from though as practically all the schools are catholic

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Thanks Cherie - I think I was so incensed because of my own experiences with my own kid I didn't think.

I do agree with having R.E. as part of a curriculum for broadening a child's knowledge, but why the hell is a mandatory exam necessary if a child and its parents KNOW that such a subject will form no part of that child's future?

I also agree that precious time spent having to 'swot' for a subject that will be absolutely no use 'career-wise' to a child once they have left school, adversely impacts on the student's ability to study for subjects which will be of immense usefulness.

Yeah, that's really a big concern for me. My daughter told the teacher she would like to move to the lower level exam paper for it and the teacher is trying to convince her not to :/ She did say to her straight up though when the teacher said "oh but you're well able for the higher paper" that she doesn't want to take study time away from the subjects that are more important to her, the teacher still is pushing her not to move down.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Coming back to the original point, Niamh have you a note of what topics will be covered in the lesson, there may be some that your daughter will find quite interesting, I know you are a non believer but like believers we shouldn't push our beliefs onto our children, it's not uncommon for children to have different views to their parents, here for LT announcing one of his children has become a Vicar : AND look on the bright side it might be an easy A plus grade in the final exam

I did have a big chat with her yesterday and she said that they only really cover Christianity and Islam (Islam is to follow so far they've only really done Christianity) I understand that she'd probably do well in it but she wants to concentrate her study time on subjects like Maths etc that are actually going to help her to get the points she needs to get into University, do you know what I mean? Religion isn't going to count for her Leaving Cert

[Kizzy]

Only cover Christianity and Islam? Well unless they've changed the exam paper she won't pass anyway.
I still don't see how it it has ever warranted an exam to itself, why could it not be added to
PSHE and Citizenship?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Only cover Christianity and Islam? Well unless they've changed the exam paper she won't pass anyway.
I still don't see how it it has ever warranted an exam to itself, why could it not be added to
PSHE and Citizenship?

Why? Have you seen an Irish RE Junior Cert Exam Paper?

[Ammi]

...so around 10 years of Christianity studies and Islam still to come as a good old balance....I guess that she won't consider just not giving any time to it and whatever grades she gets will be fine/focusing on her other subjects...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...so around 10 years of Christianity studies and Islam still to come as a good old balance....I guess that she won't consider just not giving any time to it and whatever grades she gets will be fine/focusing on her other subjects...

Oh she will yeah, that's what I told her to do eventhough she's such a perfectionist that'll probably wreck her head a bit

[Jessica.]

I did my junior cert exams in 2007, Religious Education was great, it's way less stressful than the other subjects, they are not shoving the word of God down your throat in that class. You discuss moral issues and decide for yourself if they are right or wrong. You learn about a world religion other than your own, which I think is healthy, expanding horizons and all that. I didn't do amazing on the exam or anything, I took it for what it was. The class was an experience, the exam wasn't going to decide my future.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

I did my junior cert exams in 2007, Religious Education was great, it's way less stressful than the other subjects, they are not shoving the word of God down your throat in that class. You discuss moral issues and decide for yourself if they are right or wrong. You learn about a world religion other than your own, which I think is healthy, expanding horizons and all that. I didn't do amazing on the exam or anything, I took it for what it was. The class was an experience, the exam wasn't going to decide my future.

Which is why they shouldn't have an exam in it at all, it's a waste of time and energy that could be used on important subjects that are going to help your future

[Ammi]

..it's a really bad connection between the curriculum and UCAS or the Irish equivalent, and needs addressing really...if exams are forced and therefore going to use up a student's, timetable, time and preparations, then there should be the points attached to them...

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Why? Have you seen an Irish RE Junior Cert Exam Paper?

Sorry Niamh I did sound a bit curt then, I haven't no, I would've thought religious studies would cover more than Christianity and Islam though.
To address the ucas issue I'd put RE in with general studies.