[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Elf On Strike

We have learnt a lot over the past decades.

Have there been any reports of civilian casualties from the British bombing of ISIS in Iraq? I will answer that one ... zero, nil, null. No civilian casualties whatsoever.

While its still possible for there to be civilian casualties, our guys at least, are very very careful on what targets that they hit and the possibility of civilian casualties.

Edit: While I'm on that topic. Some have said why are we there, we don't do anything that others can't do. Well, we bring the technology to reduce the risk of civilian casualties to the others in the coalition too. Our equipment in certain areas is way more advanced than anything anyone else has.

Cracking post again BOTS.

[Kazanne]

How can you negotiate with people like them? they do not like us,they don't like our way of life,the way we dress ,our music,our TV etc,they hate the Western way of life,they hate our beliefs,our traditions and they hate that women are seen as equal,They want to take over the world and have everyone praying in mosques,following Sharia law, making women unseen and not heard,they want to possess the human race,that might be ok for some but personally I would rather die than be forced into any of that.

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by Tinselbells

How can you negotiate with people like them? they do not like us,they don't like our way of life,the way we dress ,our music,our TV etc,they hate the Western way of life,they hate our beliefs,our traditions and they hate that women are seen as equal,They want to take over the world and have everyone praying in mosques,following Sharia law, making women unseen and not heard,they want to possess the human race,that might be ok for some but personally I would rather die than be forced into any of that.

So well put Kaz.

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Tinselbells

How can you negotiate with people like them? they do not like us,they don't like our way of life,the way we dress ,our music,our TV etc,they hate the Western way of life,they hate our beliefs,our traditions and they hate that women are seen as equal,They want to take over the world and have everyone praying in mosques,following Sharia law, making women unseen and not heard,they want to possess the human race,that might be ok for some but personally I would rather die than be forced into any of that.

Well said, Kaz.

[bots]

I think its best to look at what Corbyn proposes.

He wants a political settlement in Syria. The theory being that if Syria has a stable government then ISIS will somehow (without conflict) be wiped out.

Everyone talks about how ISIS is an ideology, but when broken down its not. ISIS has an army, thousands of soldiers with a vast array of weaponry, large and small. These troops are spreading themselves across Syria and Iraq, taking over towns and resources as they go. If left unchecked, that army will continue to grow and expand its reach both in Syria and Iraq and into other neighbouring countries. This is fact, because this is what they were doing until the coalition started bombing them.

Since bombing started, it has allowed the kurds to mount a defence of their towns and it has stabilised the situation around and close to Baghdad.

Bombing has achieved this, not negotiating with them. That's why bombing is an important part of the process. No-one is saying bombing alone will resolve it, but it will contribute to the eventual defeat of ISIS.

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by Elf On Strike

I think its best to look at what Corbyn proposes.

He wants a political settlement in Syria. The theory being that if Syria has a stable government then ISIS will somehow (without conflict) be wiped out.

Everyone talks about how ISIS is an ideology, but when broken down its not. ISIS has an army, thousands of soldiers with a vast array of weaponry, large and small. These troops are spreading themselves across Syria and Iraq, taking over towns and resources as they go. If left unchecked, that army will continue to grow and expand its reach both in Syria and Iraq and into other neighbouring countries. This is fact, because this is what they were doing until the coalition started bombing them.

Since bombing started, it has allowed the kurds to mount a defence of their towns and it has stabilised the situation around and close to Baghdad.

Bombing has achieved this, not negotiating with them. That's why bombing is an important part of the process. No-one is saying bombing alone will resolve it, but it will contribute to the eventual defeat of ISIS.

The question should be ..... Does Corbyn believe that ISIS will sit aoround the table to discuss this when asked?

[Johnnyuk123]

On the Jeremy Corbyn mentality. What war has he ever voted for?

[Jake.]

I don't have the answer. It's not my job to provide the answer. But killing innocent people and children isn't the answer.

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by Noel Raymonds

I don't have the answer. It's not my job to provide the answer. But killing innocent people and children isn't the answer.

And killing innocent people is NOT what the air strikes are about. They are targeting ISIS bases. No one wants syrina civilian people targeted in all of this.

[Jake.]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

And killing innocent people is NOT what the air strikes are about. They are targeting ISIS bases. No one wants syrina civilian people targeted in all of this.

But what it is and isn't about is irrelevant when innocent people are dying because of it.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Noel Raymonds

But what it is and isn't about is irrelevant when innocent people are dying because of it.

What it's about is completely relevent though because innocent people might die. Noone wants innocent people to die for no reason, but ordinary Syrians are already suffering immensely at the hands of ISIS and if we can help to stop them and choose not to, then it's only going to get worse for them.

I understand what Dezzy and a lot of other people are saying about how they believe there to be no need for us yet and we should wait for a more appropriate time, but when is that? What do ISIS need to do for us to deem it an appropriate time? And why should we back out because other superpowers are involved when we can help them? Surely it will just make the attack against ISIS stronger and less likely to drag on?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Sleighmie

What it's about is completely relevent though because innocent people might die. Noone wants innocent people to die for no reason, but ordinary Syrians are already suffering immensely at the hands of ISIS and if we can help to stop them and choose not to, then it's only going to get worse for them.

I understand what Dezzy and a lot of other people are saying about how they believe there to be no need for us yet and we should wait for a more appropriate time, but when is that? What do ISIS need to do for us to deem it an appropriate time? And why should we back out because other superpowers are involved when we can help them? Surely it will just make the attack against ISIS stronger and less likely to drag on?

Your posts are ALWAYS well written, and more importantly, very valid and balanced Jamie.

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by Noel Raymonds

I don't have the answer. It's not my job to provide the answer. But killing innocent people and children isn't the answer.

All countires bombing are targeting ISIS bases and NOT Syrian people.

[Johnnyuk123]

I repeat my original post...

For all those against war on ISIS what would you suggest that we should do instead of war against ISIS that would make an impact on ISIS for them to want to sit around a table and resolve this matter in a humane way?

Please keep to my original post and answer to that.

[Tom4784]

As it stands, Bombing Syria is as effective as doing nothing, in fact it's worse since we waste resources to bomb a country. At this point we can't do anything that isn't already being done more effectively by superpowers with more means than us.

We aren't doing anything useful apart from fluffing our own egos by bombing Syria. We aren't needed yet. When something useful can be done and we can be of use then go for it but at the moment it's pointless.

[AnnieK]

Right, I'm going to put a slightly more human side to this. I'm sat here, watching my 5 year old son sleep peacefully tonight. He has no concept of a bad life other than stories of bad men,violence or God forbid Nything worse. I want to keep his innocence of the life his great grandparents and relatives fought, and in some circumstances died for him to have.

I worry constantly about the world i have brought him into but if our government can do anything to bring some stability from this ongoing crisis by bombings, then fair ****ing play. I will apologise till the cows come home if civilians get hurt, and I will feel it, but, and I dare anyone on this thread or forum to tell me different BUT if it came to us bombing them or them bombing us and killing our nearest and dearest which will happen, and according to reports has been planned before our intervention......what would you prefer????????

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Right, I'm going to put a slightly more human side to this. I'm sat here, watching my 5 year old son sleep peacefully tonight. He has no concept of a bad life other than stories of bad men,violence or God forbid Nything worse. I want to keep his innocence of the life his great grandparents and relatives fought, and in some circumstances died for him to have.

I worry constantly about the world i have brought him into but if our government can do anything to bring some stability from this ongoing crisis by bombings, then fair ****ing play. I will apologise till the cows come home if civilians get hurt, and I will feel it, but, and I dare anyone on this thread or forum to tell me different BUT if it came to us bombing them or them bombing us and killing our nearest and dearest which will happen, and according to reports has been planned before our intervention......what would you prefer????????

Reason and honesty Annie. A simply great post.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Right, I'm going to put a slightly more human side to this. I'm sat here, watching my 5 year old son sleep peacefully tonight. He has no concept of a bad life other than stories of bad men,violence or God forbid Nything worse. I want to keep his innocence of the life his great grandparents and relatives fought, and in some circumstances died for him to have.

I worry constantly about the world i have brought him into but if our government can do anything to bring some stability from this ongoing crisis by bombings, then fair ****ing play. I will apologise till the cows come home if civilians get hurt, and I will feel it, but, and I dare anyone on this thread or forum to tell me different BUT if it came to us bombing them or them bombing us and killing our nearest and dearest which will happen, and according to reports has been planned before our intervention......what would you prefer????????

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Right, I'm going to put a slightly more human side to this. I'm sat here, watching my 5 year old son sleep peacefully tonight. He has no concept of a bad life other than stories of bad men,violence or God forbid Nything worse. I want to keep his innocence of the life his great grandparents and relatives fought, and in some circumstances died for him to have.

I worry constantly about the world i have brought him into but if our government can do anything to bring some stability from this ongoing crisis by bombings, then fair ****ing play. I will apologise till the cows come home if civilians get hurt, and I will feel it, but, and I dare anyone on this thread or forum to tell me different BUT if it came to us bombing them or them bombing us and killing our nearest and dearest which will happen, and according to reports has been planned before our intervention......what would you prefer????????

Great post Annie, I would like just one person against bombing to explain exactly what the UK should be doing instead, and I don't hold with the argument that we are now more susceptible to attack not when 30 Brits never returned from their holiday in Tunisia just mere months ago

[Kazanne]

Well I do know as soon as something happens here these airstrikes will get blamed in the "See I told you" mould, NO we will get attacked anyway it was a given,the UK has thwarted many plots already,I am so pleased we have good security forces protecting us,IF Isis get their way,no one will be protecting us we will be target practice, and for those saying war accomplishes nothing,I don't think our old soldiers would agree with you there,we are using at least one thing it achieved free speech, but if we are not careful Isis will take that away too !!

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Tinselbells

Well I do know as soon as something happens here these airstrikes will get blamed in the "See I told you" mould, NO we will get attacked anyway it was a given,the UK has thwarted many plots already,I am so pleased we have good security forces protecting us,IF Isis get their way,no one will be protecting us we will be target practice, and for those saying war accomplishes nothing,I don't think our old soldiers would agree with you there,we are using at least one thing it achieved free speech, but if we are not careful Isis will take that away too !!

Excellent post Kaz. You are so correct.

ISIS have long had plans to commit Paris-style arocities in the UK, and IT IS only becuse of our Intelligence Services that those plans have repeatedly been foiled.

God Forbid, but if ISIS do now manage to breach our security, and actually execute one of their plans - almost certainly by activating some of the dozens if not hundreds of Jihadist 'sleepers' already ensconced here - then the cries from some of the anti-bombing anti-war anti-do anything brigade that "It is revenge", "It wouldn't have happened if we hadn't bombed Syria" etc etc will be unbearable AND wrong.

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Excellent post Kaz. You are so correct.

ISIS have long had plans to commit Paris-style arocities in the UK, and IT IS only becuse of our Intelligence Services that those plans have repeatedly been foiled.

God Forbid, but if ISIS do now manage to breach our security, and actually execute one of their plans - almost certainly by activating some of the dozens if not hundreds of Jihadist 'sleepers' already ensconced here - then the cries from some of the anti-bombing anti-war anti-do anything brigade that "It is revenge", "It wouldn't have happened if we hadn't bombed Syria" etc etc will be unbearable AND wrong.

Both posts well written and true!

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

Both posts well written and true!

Everyone's posts on this issue are well written and also likely in the main true too as no one knows the end result to this action and or more conflict to come.
None of us have the solution or best answer at all,and as with Vicky too, many, maybe even most people at large, are still undecided on what to do or support.
Nothing wrong at all with any of that.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

Both posts well written and true!

@ that gif

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by Tinselbells

@ that gif

He's a right mover is our David.
All the One Direction boys love our PM.