[MrWong]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

of course we should. How do you think the LGBT community has come to be accepted now? By letting people speak and their views heard. I find it obscene that people forget that and are not capable of accepting anyone with a different view to their own.

He can have any ignorant view he likes.

He was asked to explain his view. Hardly unreasonable.

How is gay adoption akin to child abuse? He couldn't answer because its not true.

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...hmmmm, it's interesting that so many of us always say how we would like the 'old style' BB back and the social experiment, type thing...surely, having Winston in the house with his extreme views on homosexuality, together with homeosexuals in there as well, is an inetersting social experiment..I mean, is that not a big part of it all...to see if there could be any understanding gained or any mind-set changes etc...yeah, we can hate on people who have the same views as Winston/we can boo them and scream get out... but if we do that, then all it'll cause is for nothing really to ever change because that hate will inevitably cause a defensiveness that will not leave an open door for listening...it's 2016, views like Winston's should not still be something that exist but they do exist and maybe that's partly because they're attacked, rather than discussed..a mind-set is a mind-set, something that isn't easy to change and I would doubt, would ever be changed through a BB experience but at least it's a beginning and an opening for questioning that mind-set...why do you believe a homosexual guy would be a sexual predator in any way, why would you have to have your 'back to the wall', while sharing the same house space/environment...why would it in any way be damaging for a child to have homosexual parents..?...all of these opportunities lost by hating on someone, by attacking what they believe...as abhorrent as it may be, it's their genuine belief and one that will continue sadly and be 'inherited' if all there is, is attack on it...the 'divide' will remain, the divide will widen because it's not just his beliefs, it's also the beliefs of others as well....we're kind of quite selective with our free speech because we don't like it when it offends and Winston's opinions are certainly very offensive and prejudice...but what really the importance of our own personal offence, compared to a possible changing of like-minded opinions to Winston's opinions...is that not the 'bigger picture', to not shut down the Winstons of the world, to not name call and attack...that's only going to re-inforce their mind-sets...if we want change, we have to allow change to happen and we have to hear and listen to some pretty unpleasant stuff...there will be no 'fix' unless that happens...I could not be more opposed to everything Winston seems to believe, which is why any possible house conversations with him would have interested me the most...there was a chance here for a real social experiment, something that I've always loved about BB from 'back in the day' but it's sadly been lost to a 'hero/villian' thing which has been manufactured by BB...let's hate on the villian, that's so fun and entertaining, well yes it is but it's kind of missing a great opportunity of something much more than entertaining by just fuelling more hate and more intolerance...

..anyways, it is what it is, an entertainment show but personally, I'd like to see less and less Winstons coming along in the future because they have listened and been listened to and mind-sets have been changed or at least questioned by themselves..that would be an ideal world, I guess..the sort of Hollywood ending which just doesn't happen, does it..but a step closer to it happening possibly..?...I don't know if anyone has watched the movie, Pride...and incredibly beautiful movie, that did have that 'Hollywood Ending'...except that it was real life as well, the coming together of an LGBT community and a very prejudice, 'nuclear family' mind-set in a Welsh village...quite a few 'Winstons' in that village, I would reckon...or at least, that's how the story started but progressed to a very different ending...there was no 'the villians were killed in the end' ending/I don't mean literally killed obviously, that would have been a bit extreme..what would that ending have achieved anyway, along would come another Winston and another and another and etc etc....because they do keep on a comin' when they're distracted (these homophobic mind-sets..) by defending, rather than to be made to think about...by living with somone/sharing house space with someone for instance, who is gay and who (they possibly) could come to think of as making a darn good parent to a child...just a possibility that was booed out with no understandings given any opportunity to happen...a possible 'oh actually, this John person would make an amazing parent, I think..he has great values and character etc..so much to enrich a child's life with...so if that's possible...could it also possibly be that other gay people would make great parents as well...OMG, OMG, OMG..., maybe, just maybe my 'Christian beliefs' need questioning..'...so much easier to 'hate back' I guess, show the same lack of tolerance...but that's not really ever going to do anything positive though, is it...and really, because his opinions/views were about parenting/gay parents and so extreme...what is any of this teaching our children...that we won't tolerate a 'bad man', darling..that we need to show the same intolerance that has been shown by them..that, that will 'fix', well it won't because it hasn't...these mind-sets have not been 'fixed'....


..anyways, just my opinion of course...

Beautifully said Ammi. As always

[cheapbbfan]

He didnt bring these views into the house though. Big Brother did

[MTVN]

Meh I don't respect his opinion but then that means that I just wouldn't engage with him about it. He believes what he believes and will continue to do so whether you try and lambast him and shout him down or not. Ultimately he is a throwback but there will always be people like him in any generation who are unable to come to terms with changes in society.

[rusticgal]

Everyone has the right to an opinion...it's called freedom of speech.
However we don't have to like or respect anyone's opinion...we have to respect the fact that they are entitled to one.

[jennyjuniper]

We don't have to respect the opinions, however the right to express those opinions should be respected.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...hmmmm, it's interesting that so many of us always say how we would like the 'old style' BB back and the social experiment, type thing...surely, having Winston in the house with his extreme views on homosexuality, together with homeosexuals in there as well, is an inetersting social experiment..I mean, is that not a big part of it all...to see if there could be any understanding gained or any mind-set changes etc...yeah, we can hate on people who have the same views as Winston/we can boo them and scream get out... but if we do that, then all it'll cause is for nothing really to ever change because that hate will inevitably cause a defensiveness that will not leave an open door for listening...it's 2016, views like Winston's should not still be something that exist but they do exist and maybe that's partly because they're attacked, rather than discussed..a mind-set is a mind-set, something that isn't easy to change and I would doubt, would ever be changed through a BB experience but at least it's a beginning and an opening for questioning that mind-set...why do you believe a homosexual guy would be a sexual predator in any way, why would you have to have your 'back to the wall', while sharing the same house space/environment...why would it in any way be damaging for a child to have homosexual parents..?...all of these opportunities lost by hating on someone, by attacking what they believe...as abhorrent as it may be, it's their genuine belief and one that will continue sadly and be 'inherited' if all there is, is attack on it...the 'divide' will remain, the divide will widen because it's not just his beliefs, it's also the beliefs of others as well....we're kind of quite selective with our free speech because we don't like it when it offends and Winston's opinions are certainly very offensive and prejudice...but what really the importance of our own personal offence, compared to a possible changing of like-minded opinions to Winston's opinions...is that not the 'bigger picture', to not shut down the Winstons of the world, to not name call and attack...that's only going to re-inforce their mind-sets...if we want change, we have to allow change to happen and we have to hear and listen to some pretty unpleasant stuff...there will be no 'fix' unless that happens...I could not be more opposed to everything Winston seems to believe, which is why any possible house conversations with him would have interested me the most...there was a chance here for a real social experiment, something that I've always loved about BB from 'back in the day' but it's sadly been lost to a 'hero/villian' thing which has been manufactured by BB...let's hate on the villian, that's so fun and entertaining, well yes it is but it's kind of missing a great opportunity of something much more than entertaining by just fuelling more hate and more intolerance...

..anyways, it is what it is, an entertainment show but personally, I'd like to see less and less Winstons coming along in the future because they have listened and been listened to and mind-sets have been changed or at least questioned by themselves..that would be an ideal world, I guess..the sort of Hollywood ending which just doesn't happen, does it..but a step closer to it happening possibly..?...I don't know if anyone has watched the movie, Pride...and incredibly beautiful movie, that did have that 'Hollywood Ending'...except that it was real life as well, the coming together of an LGBT community and a very prejudice, 'nuclear family' mind-set in a Welsh village...quite a few 'Winstons' in that village, I would reckon...or at least, that's how the story started but progressed to a very different ending...there was no 'the villians were killed in the end' ending/I don't mean literally killed obviously, that would have been a bit extreme..what would that ending have achieved anyway, along would come another Winston and another and another and etc etc....because they do keep on a comin' when they're distracted (these homophobic mind-sets..) by defending, rather than to be made to think about...by living with somone/sharing house space with someone for instance, who is gay and who (they possibly) could come to think of as making a darn good parent to a child...just a possibility that was booed out with no understandings given any opportunity to happen...a possible 'oh actually, this John person would make an amazing parent, I think..he has great values and character etc..so much to enrich a child's life with...so if that's possible...could it also possibly be that other gay people would make great parents as well...OMG, OMG, OMG..., maybe, just maybe my 'Christian beliefs' need questioning..'...so much easier to 'hate back' I guess, show the same lack of tolerance...but that's not really ever going to do anything positive though, is it...and really, because his opinions/views were about parenting/gay parents and so extreme...what is any of this teaching our children...that we won't tolerate a 'bad man', darling..that we need to show the same intolerance that has been shown by them..that, that will 'fix', well it won't because it hasn't...these mind-sets have not been 'fixed'....


..anyways, just my opinion of course...

Fantastic post Ammi. I always love reading your thoughts.
I too long for the early BB days of the social experiment without interference from producers forcing issues and instead letting us get to know them simply through their conversations and interactions with each other. If it had been the old style BB, I think that Winston's views on gay adoption could well have come to light naturally anyway given time as he was already showing homophobia in his VT and in the house before the task was carried out so he obviously wanted his views on the subject known to some extent.

What you say makes great sense and I love your understanding and thoughtfulness, but personally I'm glad I don't have to look or hear from that disgusting arrogant man for even another day.
In my real life I don't go all guns blazing against homophobic remarks, well not often....probably most of us don't and we just say we disagree and say why, because attacking someone's beliefs doesn't get you anywhere - and you might get your face rearranged lol - (I once got into a heated argument with a big guy in a bar about his anti gay views and got head butted for my trouble, by the time I came to my senses he was gone so I didn't even get a go at him haha) so I think forums like this are a kind of outlet to safely let off steam...
I wish you would post more often, I always look out for your take on things....

[Pink Pegasus]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...hmmmm, it's interesting that so many of us always say how we would like the 'old style' BB back and the social experiment, type thing...surely, having Winston in the house with his extreme views on homosexuality, together with homeosexuals in there as well, is an inetersting social experiment..I mean, is that not a big part of it all...to see if there could be any understanding gained or any mind-set changes etc...yeah, we can hate on people who have the same views as Winston/we can boo them and scream get out... but if we do that, then all it'll cause is for nothing really to ever change because that hate will inevitably cause a defensiveness that will not leave an open door for listening...it's 2016, views like Winston's should not still be something that exist but they do exist and maybe that's partly because they're attacked, rather than discussed..a mind-set is a mind-set, something that isn't easy to change and I would doubt, would ever be changed through a BB experience but at least it's a beginning and an opening for questioning that mind-set...why do you believe a homosexual guy would be a sexual predator in any way, why would you have to have your 'back to the wall', while sharing the same house space/environment...why would it in any way be damaging for a child to have homosexual parents..?...all of these opportunities lost by hating on someone, by attacking what they believe...as abhorrent as it may be, it's their genuine belief and one that will continue sadly and be 'inherited' if all there is, is attack on it...the 'divide' will remain, the divide will widen because it's not just his beliefs, it's also the beliefs of others as well....we're kind of quite selective with our free speech because we don't like it when it offends and Winston's opinions are certainly very offensive and prejudice...but what really the importance of our own personal offence, compared to a possible changing of like-minded opinions to Winston's opinions...is that not the 'bigger picture', to not shut down the Winstons of the world, to not name call and attack...that's only going to re-inforce their mind-sets...if we want change, we have to allow change to happen and we have to hear and listen to some pretty unpleasant stuff...there will be no 'fix' unless that happens...I could not be more opposed to everything Winston seems to believe, which is why any possible house conversations with him would have interested me the most...there was a chance here for a real social experiment, something that I've always loved about BB from 'back in the day' but it's sadly been lost to a 'hero/villian' thing which has been manufactured by BB...let's hate on the villian, that's so fun and entertaining, well yes it is but it's kind of missing a great opportunity of something much more than entertaining by just fuelling more hate and more intolerance...

..anyways, it is what it is, an entertainment show but personally, I'd like to see less and less Winstons coming along in the future because they have listened and been listened to and mind-sets have been changed or at least questioned by themselves..that would be an ideal world, I guess..the sort of Hollywood ending which just doesn't happen, does it..but a step closer to it happening possibly..?...I don't know if anyone has watched the movie, Pride...and incredibly beautiful movie, that did have that 'Hollywood Ending'...except that it was real life as well, the coming together of an LGBT community and a very prejudice, 'nuclear family' mind-set in a Welsh village...quite a few 'Winstons' in that village, I would reckon...or at least, that's how the story started but progressed to a very different ending...there was no 'the villians were killed in the end' ending/I don't mean literally killed obviously, that would have been a bit extreme..what would that ending have achieved anyway, along would come another Winston and another and another and etc etc....because they do keep on a comin' when they're distracted (these homophobic mind-sets..) by defending, rather than to be made to think about...by living with somone/sharing house space with someone for instance, who is gay and who (they possibly) could come to think of as making a darn good parent to a child...just a possibility that was booed out with no understandings given any opportunity to happen...a possible 'oh actually, this John person would make an amazing parent, I think..he has great values and character etc..so much to enrich a child's life with...so if that's possible...could it also possibly be that other gay people would make great parents as well...OMG, OMG, OMG..., maybe, just maybe my 'Christian beliefs' need questioning..'...so much easier to 'hate back' I guess, show the same lack of tolerance...but that's not really ever going to do anything positive though, is it...and really, because his opinions/views were about parenting/gay parents and so extreme...what is any of this teaching our children...that we won't tolerate a 'bad man', darling..that we need to show the same intolerance that has been shown by them..that, that will 'fix', well it won't because it hasn't...these mind-sets have not been 'fixed'....


..anyways, just my opinion of course...

Just read this now, just want to say fantastic post Ammi, you raise some great points there and made me think about the situation and some aspects more closely. I find you a very good debater and at getting me to look at at alternative viewpoints by how you lay out your posts. I did want him evicted because he was my least favourite of the 3 nominees not solely because of his comments but also because I just liked the other 2 ladies a bit more as housemates and thought he was a little bit sleazy so I'm still glad it was him gone out of the 3 that were up. However I too wonder though if a few weeks living with gay people would have made Winston question some of his own negative beliefs? I know that there might not have been a high likelihood of that but it would be something that would have been interesting to witness if it did happen. Alternatively things could have escalated even further and he could have gone on to really upset some of the housemates further or gotten into bigger arguments that also damaged himself more with the public, but I didn't get the impression it was something he wanted to fight and argue about so maybe his opinions might have changed a little over time...

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...hmmmm, it's interesting that so many of us always say how we would like the 'old style' BB back and the social experiment, type thing...surely, having Winston in the house with his extreme views on homosexuality, together with homeosexuals in there as well, is an inetersting social experiment..I mean, is that not a big part of it all...to see if there could be any understanding gained or any mind-set changes etc...yeah, we can hate on people who have the same views as Winston/we can boo them and scream get out... but if we do that, then all it'll cause is for nothing really to ever change because that hate will inevitably cause a defensiveness that will not leave an open door for listening...it's 2016, views like Winston's should not still be something that exist but they do exist and maybe that's partly because they're attacked, rather than discussed..a mind-set is a mind-set, something that isn't easy to change and I would doubt, would ever be changed through a BB experience but at least it's a beginning and an opening for questioning that mind-set...why do you believe a homosexual guy would be a sexual predator in any way, why would you have to have your 'back to the wall', while sharing the same house space/environment...why would it in any way be damaging for a child to have homosexual parents..?...all of these opportunities lost by hating on someone, by attacking what they believe...as abhorrent as it may be, it's their genuine belief and one that will continue sadly and be 'inherited' if all there is, is attack on it...the 'divide' will remain, the divide will widen because it's not just his beliefs, it's also the beliefs of others as well....we're kind of quite selective with our free speech because we don't like it when it offends and Winston's opinions are certainly very offensive and prejudice...but what really the importance of our own personal offence, compared to a possible changing of like-minded opinions to Winston's opinions...is that not the 'bigger picture', to not shut down the Winstons of the world, to not name call and attack...that's only going to re-inforce their mind-sets...if we want change, we have to allow change to happen and we have to hear and listen to some pretty unpleasant stuff...there will be no 'fix' unless that happens...I could not be more opposed to everything Winston seems to believe, which is why any possible house conversations with him would have interested me the most...there was a chance here for a real social experiment, something that I've always loved about BB from 'back in the day' but it's sadly been lost to a 'hero/villian' thing which has been manufactured by BB...let's hate on the villian, that's so fun and entertaining, well yes it is but it's kind of missing a great opportunity of something much more than entertaining by just fuelling more hate and more intolerance...

..anyways, it is what it is, an entertainment show but personally, I'd like to see less and less Winstons coming along in the future because they have listened and been listened to and mind-sets have been changed or at least questioned by themselves..that would be an ideal world, I guess..the sort of Hollywood ending which just doesn't happen, does it..but a step closer to it happening possibly..?...I don't know if anyone has watched the movie, Pride...and incredibly beautiful movie, that did have that 'Hollywood Ending'...except that it was real life as well, the coming together of an LGBT community and a very prejudice, 'nuclear family' mind-set in a Welsh village...quite a few 'Winstons' in that village, I would reckon...or at least, that's how the story started but progressed to a very different ending...there was no 'the villians were killed in the end' ending/I don't mean literally killed obviously, that would have been a bit extreme..what would that ending have achieved anyway, along would come another Winston and another and another and etc etc....because they do keep on a comin' when they're distracted (these homophobic mind-sets..) by defending, rather than to be made to think about...by living with somone/sharing house space with someone for instance, who is gay and who (they possibly) could come to think of as making a darn good parent to a child...just a possibility that was booed out with no understandings given any opportunity to happen...a possible 'oh actually, this John person would make an amazing parent, I think..he has great values and character etc..so much to enrich a child's life with...so if that's possible...could it also possibly be that other gay people would make great parents as well...OMG, OMG, OMG..., maybe, just maybe my 'Christian beliefs' need questioning..'...so much easier to 'hate back' I guess, show the same lack of tolerance...but that's not really ever going to do anything positive though, is it...and really, because his opinions/views were about parenting/gay parents and so extreme...what is any of this teaching our children...that we won't tolerate a 'bad man', darling..that we need to show the same intolerance that has been shown by them..that, that will 'fix', well it won't because it hasn't...these mind-sets have not been 'fixed'....


..anyways, just my opinion of course...

[lostalex]

should you tolerate people being intolerant? no.

any injustice can be justified by belief. Dicks fit vaginas, and it's natural for men to get horny and want sex, so a rapist could say he was just doing what nature intended. does that mean we should tolerate rape?

[Withano]

I dont really see how its possible to respect one mans opinion if his opinion is we should disrespect 10% of humanity. So, no, not always.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by Chaos

When I say 'We should respect other peoples opinions' I don't mean we should say 'yaas you're so right, i totes agree', I mean that we should say 'Well I don't agree with your opinions but I can put that behind me and treat you like a human anyway.'

I just think the way Winston has been treated tonight has been completely OTT.

I'm just picking this post without reading much of the thread, but as a gay person I don't feel the need to respect Winston's opinion since he clearly doesn't have respect for someone like me.

[ThriceShy]

Originally Posted by Withano

I dont really see how its possible to respect one mans opinion if his opinion is we should disrespect 10% of humanity. So, no, not always.

Where did he say we should disrespect all gays? Why make that up?

[Crimson Dynamo]

5%

[Livia]

I don't respect his opinion. I respect his right to an opinion but that's an entirely different thing. I have no respect for Winston in general.

[Glenn.]

No we shouldn't respect their opinions. If you spill stupid filth expect to be treated like filth.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by cheapbbfan

He didnt bring these views into the house though. Big Brother did

True

[sampvt]

Big Brother knew exactly what they were doing. They booked him, recorded the views they wanted to air, they put him in the house and put him in a game they knew would create conflict. They then fed him to the wolves and maybe even changed the eviction procedures to make sure he was evicted. They even then probably forced Emma to do the interview she did and probably prompted Rylan and the heavily biased panel. In short he was stitched up like a kipper and fed to the lions and for what, a few extra viewers and a human interest story that disgusted many of the GBP.

If you want to know who the real villain is here, look no further than BB itself. Winston is purely a nobody with ****y views and he was bought and sold as a sacrificial lamb by a turd of an organisation that will grovel in dustbins for viewing figures.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

True

his views are still pertinent bc they're entirely why he was cast in the first place

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Macie Lightfoot

his views are still pertinent bc they're entirely why he was cast in the first place

And he's allowed "his views"

[Macie Lightfoot]

did anyone say he isn't?

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

And he's allowed "his views"

He's certainly allowed them. But have them respected? No.

[EspeonBB]

Originally Posted by sampvt

Big Brother knew exactly what they were doing. They booked him, recorded the views they wanted to air, they put him in the house and put him in a game they knew would create conflict. They then fed him to the wolves and maybe even changed the eviction procedures to make sure he was evicted. They even then probably forced Emma to do the interview she did and probably prompted Rylan and the heavily biased panel. In short he was stitched up like a kipper and fed to the lions and for what, a few extra viewers and a human interest story that disgusted many of the GBP.

If you want to know who the real villain is here, look no further than BB itself. Winston is purely a nobody with ****y views and he was bought and sold as a sacrificial lamb by a turd of an organisation that will grovel in dustbins for viewing figures.

I don't disagree with your point that BB put him in for controversy and publicity but that doesn't change the fact that Winston still has very outdated and harmful views.

[LukeB]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

And he's allowed "his views"

so are the people who don't agree with them, because it's their view too can't have a view and expect people to be please with it. Respect has to be earned.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by sampvt

Big Brother knew exactly what they were doing. They booked him, recorded the views they wanted to air, they put him in the house and put him in a game they knew would create conflict. They then fed him to the wolves and maybe even changed the eviction procedures to make sure he was evicted. They even then probably forced Emma to do the interview she did and probably prompted Rylan and the heavily biased panel. In short he was stitched up like a kipper and fed to the lions and for what, a few extra viewers and a human interest story that disgusted many of the GBP.

If you want to know who the real villain is here, look no further than BB itself. Winston is purely a nobody with ****y views and he was bought and sold as a sacrificial lamb by a turd of an organisation that will grovel in dustbins for viewing figures.

His homophobic remarks are the only reason why he's notable in the first place and he knows it. He knew what he was getting himself in to and he did nothing but show himself to be a bigoted twat that's incapable of accepting responsibility for his own actions and words.

Acting like BB is the villain when it was his words that got him in trouble is just ignoring the facts. BB brought it up but Winston dug his own grave in the aftermath. We haven't even touched on the fact that he was a creeper that blamed the women in the house for his own actions or the fact that he's a disablist prick.

He's indefensible.