[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I don't believe that they would go to those lengths and kill an innocent girl just to frame Steve Avery but I do think they believed it was him and planted some evidence

..no I don't believe that either really, it's too much conspiracy but there are still some things that don't make sense to me either/that don't seem to fit...the police surely must have planted her car and directed the search ..a 40 acre land property and it took 30 minutes to find it...and also the police officer who knew the car model, when he wasn't meant to have seen it...(he looked so uncomfortable there in court..)...so the police must have planted the car first before the killer planted the body, so the killer maybe not have been intending to make it look like Avery at first but then did when the car was found...but also if the police were going to 'plant', why didn't they plant all of the evidence originally because other 'evidence' was the found so much later than the body was found...

..anyways, the judge is really suspicious in throwing all of the defence things out but allowing most of the prosecution and the convenience of all of the 'ruined' evidence that was so, so important...(I'm going to try to watch some more soon and the I'll be back with my next conspiracy theory..)....

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..no I don't believe that either really, it's too much conspiracy but there are still some things that don't make sense to me either/that don't seem to fit...the police surely must have planted her car and directed the search ..a 40 acre land property and it took 30 minutes to find it...and also the police officer who knew the car model, when he wasn't meant to have seen it...(he looked so uncomfortable there in court..)...so the police must have planted the car first before the killer planted the body, so the killer maybe not have been intending to make it look like Avery at first but then did when the car was found...but also if the police were going to 'plant', why didn't they plant all of the evidence originally because other 'evidence' was the found so much later than the body was found...

..anyways, the judge is really suspicious in throwing all of the defence things out but allowing most of the prosecution and the convenience of all of the 'ruined' evidence that was so, so important...(I'm going to try to watch some more soon and the I'll be back with my next conspiracy theory..)....

I posted this theory I found online on the first page, but it kind of addresses some of those questions you had

Theory #1: Scott Tadych (Avery’s brother-in-law) and Bobby Dassey (Avery’s nephew and Brendan Dassey’s brother) killed Halbach (purposefully or accidentally) and framed Avery for the crime … and then sat back and watched as the Manitowoc County Sheriff’s Department separately did the same.

Evidence: The amount of evidence found on the Avery property — including Halbach’s remains and her car – has led many to surmise that if Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey are innocent, the real killer would still likely be someone who had similar access and opportunity, both to Halbach herself and the Avery property. A number of other Avery family members also lived on the property at the time, including Tadych, Janda and all four of the Dassey boys. It was Janda’s car that Halbach came to photograph for Auto Trader magazine, and Tadych more than likely was privy to her visit. Bobby Dassey testified to seeing Halbach taking pictures of his mother’s car, and both men had access to the various locations where evidence was found. Neither was fingerprinted or submitted DNA, and the trailer where they lived was not searched, so there’s no way of knowing if there was evidence linking them to Halbach’s murder, because they were not investigated.

Other Evidence: Bobby is believed to be Tadych’s accomplice in this theory, based on the fact that the pair conveniently alibi each other for the time of the murder. Both claimed to have gone hunting that afternoon/evening, but not together, and said they passed each other on the highway during the window of time Halbach is believed to have been killed – but there are no other witnesses to offer further corroboration.

Tadych, meanwhile, has a long history of being violent towards women, and showed a strange level of enthusiasm for his brother-in-law’s conviction (he called it “the best thing in the world ever”) despite knowing his step son, Brendan, was facing similar charges. Meanwhile, Bobby Dassey’s testimony at trial had notable inconsistencies and misleading statements, and an unrelated examination the same week as the murder reportedly revealed that Bobby had scratches on his back. Additionally, shortly after Halbach’s death, a coworker of Tadych’s claimed that he was trying to sell a .22 rifle, the same as the gun believed to be the murder weapon, which he said belonged “to one of the Dassey boys.”
__________________

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I posted this theory I found online on the first page, but it kind of addresses some of those questions you had

Theory #1: Scott Tadych (Avery’s brother-in-law) and Bobby Dassey (Avery’s nephew and Brendan Dassey’s brother) killed Halbach (purposefully or accidentally) and framed Avery for the crime … and then sat back and watched as the Manitowoc County Sheriff’s Department separately did the same.

Evidence: The amount of evidence found on the Avery property — including Halbach’s remains and her car – has led many to surmise that if Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey are innocent, the real killer would still likely be someone who had similar access and opportunity, both to Halbach herself and the Avery property. A number of other Avery family members also lived on the property at the time, including Tadych, Janda and all four of the Dassey boys. It was Janda’s car that Halbach came to photograph for Auto Trader magazine, and Tadych more than likely was privy to her visit. Bobby Dassey testified to seeing Halbach taking pictures of his mother’s car, and both men had access to the various locations where evidence was found. Neither was fingerprinted or submitted DNA, and the trailer where they lived was not searched, so there’s no way of knowing if there was evidence linking them to Halbach’s murder, because they were not investigated.

Other Evidence: Bobby is believed to be Tadych’s accomplice in this theory, based on the fact that the pair conveniently alibi each other for the time of the murder. Both claimed to have gone hunting that afternoon/evening, but not together, and said they passed each other on the highway during the window of time Halbach is believed to have been killed – but there are no other witnesses to offer further corroboration.

Tadych, meanwhile, has a long history of being violent towards women, and showed a strange level of enthusiasm for his brother-in-law’s conviction (he called it “the best thing in the world ever”) despite knowing his step son, Brendan, was facing similar charges. Meanwhile, Bobby Dassey’s testimony at trial had notable inconsistencies and misleading statements, and an unrelated examination the same week as the murder reportedly revealed that Bobby had scratches on his back. Additionally, shortly after Halbach’s death, a coworker of Tadych’s claimed that he was trying to sell a .22 rifle, the same as the gun believed to be the murder weapon, which he said belonged “to one of the Dassey boys.”
__________________

...do we know Scott Tadych from the documentary and facts about him, I don't recall any or this is online research..?...that's something that I'll look at as well when I've finished it because although I hadn't figured Scott, I did think straight away last night, Bobby....there is so much incriminating in the prosecution using his testimony...(which the defence had not even been made aware of..)...and it goes with the 'last to see her alive' thing of him also being one of the last people and knowing that he could say something to incriminate Avery and cast all eyes away from him, so a 'perfect crime'..?...also, he went off at 2.45pm-ish, he was sure of time because of his plan to go hunting..?...but could have waited for Teresa to drive off and then in some way, either hijacked her car or followed it and killed her/planted evidence at different times as and when he could and so building it all...also with the messages etc that had been erased and the points that these things are often done by the people closest to the victim and that should have been investigated on as well...?...well, as well as 'close to the victim' suspects, it's surely the same with close to the suspect, those would be the immediate suspects to me/within the family..and who more so than a family member who has suddenly come from nowhere... as observing Teresa going to Avery's van and a huge incrimination and contradiction to Avery's statement....

[Ammi]

..excuse me if my typing is awful, my laptop is playing up and letters are not connecting always so it looks like misspellings...

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...do we know Scott Tadych from the documentary and facts about him, I don't recall any or this is online research..?...that's something that I'll look at as well when I've finished it because although I hadn't figured Scott, I did think straight away last night, Bobby....there is so much incriminating in the prosecution using his testimony...(which the defence had not even been made aware of..)...and it goes with the 'last to see her alive' thing of him also being one of the last people and knowing that he could say something to incriminate Avery and cast all eyes away from him, so a 'perfect crime'..?...also, he went off at 2.45pm-ish, he was sure of time because of his plan to go hunting..?...but could have waited for Teresa to drive off and then in some way, either hijacked her car or followed it and killed her/planted evidence at different times as and when he could and so building it all...also with the messages etc that had been erased and the points that these things are often done by the people closest to the victim and that should have been investigated on as well...?...well, as well as 'close to the victim' suspects, it's surely the same with close to the suspect, those would be the immediate suspects to me/within the family..and who more so than a family member who has suddenly come from nowhere... as observing Teresa going to Avery's van and a huge incrimination and contradiction to Avery's statement....

If you're not finished watching you may not have seen Scott Tadychs court appearance yet, he's more of a suspect for me than Bobby is tbh, this is him :

[Ammi]

..no, I haven't seen him yet so maybe I'll put him together with Bobby as well when I do...but actually Niamh, this is not making sense...(I must get my shower in a minute and stop obsessing over this....)...but the car was planted first and (it seems, planted by the police dept..)..?..so, how would they know that she wasn't alive at that point, that she would be found with an explanation and nothing sinister had happened to her because it was the killer who was the only one/or people who knew she was dead so why/what purpose in planting the car unless they had seen/knew for certain there was a body..?..for them to plant the car and then Teresa be found alive, would just actually expose them more and help Avery's previous case against the more/signing their own fate...

[Ammi]

..also even in finding the car at Avery's, how would they know that the body still wouldn't have been found somewhere else 'the place of death' that would have somehow made it impossible for the car to be where it was and that it had to be planted and that he couldn't have done it..

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..no, I haven't seen him yet so maybe I'll put him together with Bobby as well when I do...but actually Niamh, this is not making sense...(I must get my shower in a minute and stop obsessing over this....)...but the car was planted first and (it seems, planted by the police dept..)..?..so, how would they know that she wasn't alive at that point, that she would be found with an explanation and nothing sinister had happened to her because it was the killer who was the only one/or people who knew she was dead so why/what purpose in planting the car unless they had seen/knew for certain there was a body..?..for them to plant the car and then Teresa be found alive, would just actually expose them more and help Avery's previous case against the more/signing their own fate...

This is a longer version of that theory which explains it (and also explains why the brother and ex boyfriend were abit shifty because they were lying just not because they actually killed her themselves) :

Spoiler:

"The police didn't kill Theresa Halbach. Andrew Colborn located that RAV4 with the assistance of Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas who illegally trespassed onto the Avery Salvage Yard on the night of November 3rd 2005. Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas suspected something was up since the Avery Salvage Yard was the last place they knew Theresa visited on Oct.31st Halloween day. They went snooping on the property and found the car.

"They checked the car and found the key in the ignition and blood in the cargo area. Mike or Ryan removed the key from the ignition to ensure that no one could easily move the car off of the Avery property... freaked out about this huge discovery they call the Manitowoc Sheriffs Department. Andrew Colborn fielded the call that night and went out and met Ryan and Mike at the Salvage Yard so he could view the car for himself. Ryan and Mike show him the car and to be certain its Halbachs he "calls" in the plate number to dispatch. Colborn has to "call" in... instead of "radio" in... the plate number to Manitowoc dispatch because he wasn't in his police cruiser at the moment, but rather on foot and in the "field' on the Avery Salvage property.

"This mistake places Colborn at the scene and in contact with Halbachs RAV4... 2 days before it is officially located on November 5th, 2005, by Pam Sturm.... This is problematic for Colborn because all call and radio transmissions to dispatch are recorded and logged onto the Manitowoc Police server. Andrew Colborn is now operating outside of police protocol at a potential crime scene that he has no official directive to be at. He tells Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas to basically **** about what they found and not mention to anyone that they were ever on the Avery Salvage property that night. Ryan or Mike turns the RAV4 key over to Andrew Colborn.

"Mike and Ryan are told to go home. Andrew Colborn then immediately calls Lt. James Lenk and briefs him about the discovery of the Halbach car and breaches of protocol he committed on the Avery property, also about Ryan Hillegas and Mike Halbach being there. Lt James Lenk realizing that Colborn's calling in Halbachs plate is a serious mistake with potential consequences orders Andrew Colborn to remove the license plate from Halbach's car and then report to him immediately.

"What James Lenk and Andrew Colborn, or the others for that matter, don't realize at this point and are completely unaware of is that Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych have kidnapped, raped, shot and then burned Theresa Halbach in the privacy of the gravel quarry off of Jambo Rd on Halloween evening. They choose to burn her body to dispose of their DNA evidence of the crimes. They hid Halbach's car in the rear of Avery Salvage and wiped it clean of their prints.

"I believe it is Scott Tadych's idea to secretly transport the cremains of Halbach from the gravel quarry and dispose them into Steven Avery's burn pit. Scott Tadych transports Halbach's cremains in secret by using one of Barb Jandas burn barrels from her yard. Scott Tadych fails to collect all of Halbach's cremains from the original burn site in the gravel quarry, thus leaving some behind that FBI investigators later find... but he also fails in making certain all of Halbach's cremains are out of Barb Jandas burn barrel after dumping them into Steven Avery's burn pit.

"This is why investigators found small bits of Halbach in Barb Jandas burn barrel. Thus making a total of three sites where Halbach's cremains are found. Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey are unaware that Ryan Hillegas and Mike Halbach have found Theresas car on the property and that Lenk and Colborn are now involved and in play with their scheme. .........By shear colossal luck, two completely independent frame jobs targeting one man, Steven Avery were shaping up into the perfect storm. On one front, from Lenk and Colborn regarding the RAV4, ....and on the other unconnected front by Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey regarding the cremains of Theresa Halbach. One party wasn't aware of the other's involvements at any point during the days leading up to the official discovery of Halbach's RAV4 at the Avery Salvage Yard hence why the investigation and murder trial made zero sense to anyone especially the Jury.

"None of the evidence could be connected because it was all unrelated... everybody was guessing. But Buting and Strang had zeroed in on a part of it but couldn't fully form a solid defense to prove it. The Jury couldn't conceive that Manitowoc officers could have conspired to kill Theresa Halbach to frame Steven Avery as Ken Kratz insisted they had to if they wanted to follow the theory the defense presented of the frame up of Steven Avery by Manitowoc officials.

"And Ken Kratz was right... Imagine Scott Tadych's confused and utter relief when Steve Avery's blood was found in the Halbach car and the RAV4 key found in Steve Avery's bedroom..... he must have been like.... WTF?! A quote from Scott Tadych after Steven Avery is convicted of Theresa Halbach's murder.... "THIS IS THE GREATEST THING TO EVER HAPPEN" ..... We will see Scott, we will see....................."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2016/0...n_9048104.html

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

This is a longer version of that theory which explains it (and also explains why the brother and ex boyfriend were abit shifty because they were lying just not because they actually killed her themselves) :

Spoiler:

"The police didn't kill Theresa Halbach. Andrew Colborn located that RAV4 with the assistance of Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas who illegally trespassed onto the Avery Salvage Yard on the night of November 3rd 2005. Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas suspected something was up since the Avery Salvage Yard was the last place they knew Theresa visited on Oct.31st Halloween day. They went snooping on the property and found the car.

"They checked the car and found the key in the ignition and blood in the cargo area. Mike or Ryan removed the key from the ignition to ensure that no one could easily move the car off of the Avery property... freaked out about this huge discovery they call the Manitowoc Sheriffs Department. Andrew Colborn fielded the call that night and went out and met Ryan and Mike at the Salvage Yard so he could view the car for himself. Ryan and Mike show him the car and to be certain its Halbachs he "calls" in the plate number to dispatch. Colborn has to "call" in... instead of "radio" in... the plate number to Manitowoc dispatch because he wasn't in his police cruiser at the moment, but rather on foot and in the "field' on the Avery Salvage property.

"This mistake places Colborn at the scene and in contact with Halbachs RAV4... 2 days before it is officially located on November 5th, 2005, by Pam Sturm.... This is problematic for Colborn because all call and radio transmissions to dispatch are recorded and logged onto the Manitowoc Police server. Andrew Colborn is now operating outside of police protocol at a potential crime scene that he has no official directive to be at. He tells Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas to basically **** about what they found and not mention to anyone that they were ever on the Avery Salvage property that night. Ryan or Mike turns the RAV4 key over to Andrew Colborn.

"Mike and Ryan are told to go home. Andrew Colborn then immediately calls Lt. James Lenk and briefs him about the discovery of the Halbach car and breaches of protocol he committed on the Avery property, also about Ryan Hillegas and Mike Halbach being there. Lt James Lenk realizing that Colborn's calling in Halbachs plate is a serious mistake with potential consequences orders Andrew Colborn to remove the license plate from Halbach's car and then report to him immediately.

"What James Lenk and Andrew Colborn, or the others for that matter, don't realize at this point and are completely unaware of is that Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych have kidnapped, raped, shot and then burned Theresa Halbach in the privacy of the gravel quarry off of Jambo Rd on Halloween evening. They choose to burn her body to dispose of their DNA evidence of the crimes. They hid Halbach's car in the rear of Avery Salvage and wiped it clean of their prints.

"I believe it is Scott Tadych's idea to secretly transport the cremains of Halbach from the gravel quarry and dispose them into Steven Avery's burn pit. Scott Tadych transports Halbach's cremains in secret by using one of Barb Jandas burn barrels from her yard. Scott Tadych fails to collect all of Halbach's cremains from the original burn site in the gravel quarry, thus leaving some behind that FBI investigators later find... but he also fails in making certain all of Halbach's cremains are out of Barb Jandas burn barrel after dumping them into Steven Avery's burn pit.

"This is why investigators found small bits of Halbach in Barb Jandas burn barrel. Thus making a total of three sites where Halbach's cremains are found. Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey are unaware that Ryan Hillegas and Mike Halbach have found Theresas car on the property and that Lenk and Colborn are now involved and in play with their scheme. .........By shear colossal luck, two completely independent frame jobs targeting one man, Steven Avery were shaping up into the perfect storm. On one front, from Lenk and Colborn regarding the RAV4, ....and on the other unconnected front by Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey regarding the cremains of Theresa Halbach. One party wasn't aware of the other's involvements at any point during the days leading up to the official discovery of Halbach's RAV4 at the Avery Salvage Yard hence why the investigation and murder trial made zero sense to anyone especially the Jury.

"None of the evidence could be connected because it was all unrelated... everybody was guessing. But Buting and Strang had zeroed in on a part of it but couldn't fully form a solid defense to prove it. The Jury couldn't conceive that Manitowoc officers could have conspired to kill Theresa Halbach to frame Steven Avery as Ken Kratz insisted they had to if they wanted to follow the theory the defense presented of the frame up of Steven Avery by Manitowoc officials.

"And Ken Kratz was right... Imagine Scott Tadych's confused and utter relief when Steve Avery's blood was found in the Halbach car and the RAV4 key found in Steve Avery's bedroom..... he must have been like.... WTF?! A quote from Scott Tadych after Steven Avery is convicted of Theresa Halbach's murder.... "THIS IS THE GREATEST THING TO EVER HAPPEN" ..... We will see Scott, we will see....................."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2016/0...n_9048104.html

..or...

Spoiler:

..the police knew that Teresa had been killed and they knew who killed her, Bobby and Scott..(I have to wait to see Scott and his evidence..)...so knew the close connection of the killers and Avery and the opportunity there...(they pushed and pushed so hard for Brendon's statement and 'admission'/manipulated him, that was so important to them and yet, when they realised that it was in their interest not to include his charges, they're prepared to drop them..?...but if they really and genuinely believed that he was guilty of what they believed him to be, then his part was pretty huge and he shouldn't be out and free, no matter what his vulnerabilities/a pretty messed up guy...)...so if they were prepared to do that, then in their determination to incriminate Avery, then would they also 'do a mutual deal' with killers that allowed them to not be suspects and gave them Avery...so not only a wrongful imprisonment again but also allowing brutal killers to remain free/that's how much they wanted to have Avery in prison...and possibly with the DNA 'ruined and contaminated' because of possible links to Scott and Bobby...


...the police planted part/Scott and Bobby planted part/all in the knowledge that Teresa was dead from the beginning and working together....