[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I honestly think they should put her on the next plane back to Syria.

by the way, I read some of those comments on that link and bloody hell Arista, they're so racist.

I agree the comments are way ott :/
You can't counter bloodlust with more bloodlust where will it end?
I wouldn't send her back there, she's back which is a miracle in itself though as if she was to enter the heart of the IS I can't see her getting out alive if she simply said she preferred her westernised life...
She could be important in as much as it could be learnt how this girls are targeted and lured across initially? That information could be invaluable in furthering counter terrorism.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I agree the comments are way ott :/
You can't counter bloodlust with more bloodlust where will it end?
I wouldn't send her back there, she's back which is a miracle in itself though as if she was to enter the heart of the IS I can't see her getting out alive if she simply said she preferred her westernised life...
She could be important in as much as it could be learnt how this girls are targeted and lured across initially? That information could be invaluable in furthering counter terrorism.

This has nothing at all to do with 'Blood Lust' on the part of this country or those opposed to this bastard's return to this country - 'Blood Lust' is exclusive to the evil terrorists for whom this bitch VOLUNTARILY and very publicly deserted this country to join.

This has ALL to do with the great hitherto silent and passive majority of ordinary people, FINALLY finding a voice to express their long simmering discontent with the disturbing maner in which their government have long treated these terrorists AND their UK domiciled supporters with lethargy, apathy, and obsequious appeasement, after being rendered impotent by 'Political Correctness' - a once innocent and worthy ideal - which has been long since hijacked and exploited by the very UK based subversives who support the terrorists, and used as a weapon by them with which to aid their ultimate victory in their 'war' against us.

That 'VOICE' may not be eloquent, and the vocabulary it uses may not be PC, but it is at least now audible, and I hope it rises in volume and numbers until this government HAS to react with a policy AGAINST these UK based Jihadists and their treasonous supporters, which is even more draconian in tolerance and even more severe in punishment.

Better to consider these 'way O.T.T.' comments as being legitimate PROTEST against something which those passing them feel passionately about - in much the same manner as those defacing War Memorials or jumping on Farage's car or impeding and harrassing Ian Duncan Smith - and I'm sure that the sometimes errant OTT nature of some of them can be similarly written off as over-enthusiasm, much like the far more severe and unlawful aspects of some of those 'protests' are mitigated, excused, or glossed over.

Incidentally; it is no 'miracle' that this treacherous ingrate 'is back' - just outrageous, because SHE is not a victim and SHE is not deserving of sympathy or empathy no matter what emotive words are used to try to potray her as such. She is a TRAITOR and a very DANGEROUS one who should have been met with a well aimed BULLET to the forehead NOT three years in a Tax-Payer funded 'Hotel' where she is free to not only LIVE the LIFE which hundreds of thousands of innocent people have had so brutally taken away from them by the evil bastards she volunteered to join, but a very comfortable life to boot.

She is also free to spread her toxic ideology within that 'Hotel' and convert other 'Guests' to her evil cause by 'Radicalising' them.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

I know what you are saying Arista but i am against wasting british tax payers money on a nice warm bed and three square meals a day with sky tv and a playstation to keep her occupied. My way is cheaper.

Yes I agree Cheaper,
But I have the better sense to stay legal.

[bitontheslide]

The punishment has to be commensurate with the crime and it was.

[DemolitionRed]

@That 'VOICE' may not be eloquent, and the vocabulary it uses may not be PC, but it is at least now audible, and I hope it rises in volume and numbers until this government HAS to react with a policy AGAINST these UK based Jihadists and their treasonous supporters, which is even more draconian in tolerance and even more severe in punishment.

It has nothing to do with PC, our popular media and even Cameron have openly promoted coercion, suspicion and demonisation against the entire Muslim population in Britain and anyone who uses that same freedom of speech and dissent to fight back on their behalf is accused of being PC, soft in the head and terrorist supporters?!?

There are things that frighten me much more than news stories like this and that's the rising and very general Islamophobia in this country and the police state that appears to be going up around them. This didn't happen towards the Irish when the IRA was bombing the hell out of this country and it shouldn't be happening now with Muslims.

If a Muslim commits what is seen as a crime against the state then lets deal with that person effectively and efficiently but lets stop making it newspaper headlines and BB serious debate headlines. Lets stop continuing these otherwise small stories with hate spitting venom that only gives out the same tedious message.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I agree the comments are way ott :/
You can't counter bloodlust with more bloodlust where will it end?
I wouldn't send her back there, she's back which is a miracle in itself though as if she was to enter the heart of the IS I can't see her getting out alive if she simply said she preferred her westernised life...
She could be important in as much as it could be learnt how this girls are targeted and lured across initially? That information could be invaluable in furthering counter terrorism.

Yeah, that's a good point, it could be a good way to deter other girls from being lured in by whatever romantic idea they have about the whole thing

[Z]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I agree the comments are way ott :/
You can't counter bloodlust with more bloodlust where will it end?
I wouldn't send her back there, she's back which is a miracle in itself though as if she was to enter the heart of the IS I can't see her getting out alive if she simply said she preferred her westernised life...
She could be important in as much as it could be learnt how this girls are targeted and lured across initially? That information could be invaluable in furthering counter terrorism.

Yeah I agree - keep her in isolation to prevent her from radicalising others but utilise this unique situation to our advantage and find out what happens to British women when they arrive, how she was recruited etc... no sense in deporting her to die or locking her away for six years and ignoring her.

[Ninastar]

only 6 years... seriously?

[Kizzy]

Better to consider these 'way O.T.T.' comments as being legitimate PROTEST against something which those passing them feel passionately about - in much the same manner as those defacing War Memorials or jumping on Farage's car or impeding and harrassing Ian Duncan Smith - and I'm sure that the sometimes errant OTT nature of some of them can be similarly written off as over-enthusiasm, much like the far more severe and unlawful aspects of some of those 'protests' are mitigated, excused, or glossed over.

That isn't legitimate protest, that's just shouting into a void.

[kirklancaster]

[QUOTE=DemolitionRed;8483658]

"It has nothing to do with PC, our popular media and even Cameron have openly promoted coercion, suspicion and demonisation against the entire Muslim population in Britain and anyone who uses that same freedom of speech and dissent to fight back on their behalf is accused of being PC, soft in the head and terrorist supporters?!?" There are things that frighten me much more than news stories like this and that's the rising and very general Islamophobia in this country and the police state that appears to be going up around them."


This view above CONTRADICTS itself and DEMONSTRATES the VERY practice of 'POLITICAL CORRECTNESS' gone bad and mad which I HIGHLIGHTED in my post, and which it is DENYING.

NOWHERE in my post did I mention ORDINARY PEACEFUL, LAW ABIDING MUSLIMS - I CLEARLY and SPECIFICALLY referred only to JIHADISTS, TERRORISTS and their SUPPORTERS.

Your post is naively confusing a detestation of ISLAMIC TERRORISTS with ISLAMOPHOBIA because NO right-minded peson hates MUSLIMS - ONLY MUSLIM TERRORISTS. There are MILLIONS of ordinary, peace-loving, deeply spiritual and decent MUSLIMS in the world who DETEST ISIS and similar terrorist organisations who CLAIM to represent ISLAM and who claim to be perpetrating their barbaric evil in the name of Allah - are these decent Muslims ISLAMAPHOBIC?

The view that "our popular media and even Cameron have openly promoted coercion, suspicion and demonisation against the entire Muslim population in Britain" is also PATENTLY FALSE, because - once again - this view is entirely confused.

THERE IS A HUGE GULF OF DIFFERENCE in responsible authorities and organisations imploring the populace to be be especially dilligent and careful around a certain section of society BECAUSE these vile terrorists ARE after all MUSLIM, and HAVE, after all, secreted themselves among DECENT MUSLIMS communities, and in those same responsible authorities and organisations preaching ISLAMAPHOBIA - which they are most certainly NOT.

Would it be MORE rational and acceptable if our Security Services and 'Police State' went "up around", say, 'The Grimsby Society Of Ugly Neglected Fishwives' instead?

That would be a massive waste of money and resources - looking in the wrong areas for terrorists, and watching the wrong communities - but no doubt it would greatly please the terrorists themselves and those who support them.

In any event, please provide hard evidence for what is stated in this view.

"and anyone who uses that same freedom of speech and dissent to fight back on their behalf is accused of being PC, soft in the head and terrorist supporters?!?"

The above is simply NOT TRUE.

One cannot 'FIGHT BACK' on behalf of MUSLIMS, if it is NOT MUSLIMS who are being attacked - only MUSLIM TERRORISTS.

Your intentions may be 'noble' and 'chivalrous' but in reality, your views are misguided, because - as stated above - you are confusing ordinary MUSLIMS with MUSLIM EXTREMIST KILLERS, and confusing CONDEMNATION of MUSLIM TERRORIST KILLERS with condemnation of ordinary MUSLIMS.

Don Quixote tilted at the sails of windmills becuse he - and only he - saw them as giants. Alas, however, they remained the sails of windmills

"This didn't happen towards the Irish when the IRA was bombing the hell out of this country and it shouldn't be happening now with Muslims. "


This is yet more confused and confusing rhetoric.

Why do people desperately attempt to liken the 'IRA' to ISIS? The only common demonitator is the fact that both are/were terrorist organisations.

The IRA did NOT want to conquer every country in the entire world and slaughter the indigenous population of each, nor enslave them, nor convert them by force to Catholicism so that the the entire Globe became entirely Catholic under the POPE.

The IRA were indeed universally condemned by decent, peace-loving ordinary people - just as ISIS are being condemned right now - BUT, not ONE RIGHT-MINDED person condemned the entire IRISH race for the terrorist actions of a few - just as no RIGHT-MINDED person is condemning the entire MUSLIM population.

In addition - The IRA did HAVE some reason to be 'disgruntled' - though their terrorism was deplorable and rightfully condemned - but ISLAMIC TERRORISTS have NO SUCH ARGUMENTS or GROUNDS.

"If a Muslim commits what is seen as a crime against the state then lets deal with that person effectively and efficiently but lets stop making it newspaper headlines and BB serious debate headlines. Lets stop continuing these otherwise small stories with hate spitting venom that only gives out the same tedious message."


"Let's stop making it newspaper headlines and BB Serious Debate headlines"?????

This view is perhaps one of the most worrying I have read on here.

We are AT WAR. A war declared upon humanity by the some of the most insane, barbaric, merciless, cruel and inhuman beasts that we have ever witnessed.

We have secreted in our country, in our communities, unknown numbers of 'Fifth Columnist' terrorists and their supporters -- TRAITORS, in simple terms.

In WARTIME, just as there is a great need for our government AND the media to caution the British Public to be diligent and to look out for traitors, there is also a great NEED for the public to be INFORMED when such TRAITORS are discovered.

WHY should this and other terrorist linked incidents by UK domiciled TRAITORS be kept from the public? It can only AID the terrorist cause and increase the very real danger to innocent British Citizens - peace-loving MUSLIMS included.

The problem is; that these terrorist-linked incidents are far more numerous than is being reported, so the UK public do not REALLY understand the gravity of the problem--

'Individual balloons floating around in the sky' - if you read some of my earlier posts.

But I would be greatly pleased if you would expound on just WHY these incidents should not be reported and just why we should not be free to discuss and debate them on TIBB?

Finally; if you SERIOUSLY consider that TRAITORS to this country are; "otherwise small stories" GOD help us.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

The punishment has to be commensurate with the crime and it was.

OK BOTS. If you feel that three years in a tax-payer funded 5* Hotel with all the home comforts which even most British Pensioners cannot afford , is approprite 'punishment' for treason, then you - like me - are entitled to your opinion.

One thing;

Until this prosecution and sentence, ALL of the traitors who 'fled' (ironic word that eh?) the UK and went to Syria and actually joined ISIS - posing with guns, corpseless heads, happy smiling photos with their 'heroes' whilst wearing the ISIS combat uniform like some 'Badge of Honour' - who have then returned here claiming they were 'misguided' and 'sorry' or simlar, have been ALLOWED re-entry.

But WHAT IF, just SOME of these bastards are REALLY merely following orders from ISIS high command, and returning here fully briefed as 'Fifth Columnists' to clandestinely communicate with other covert terrorist sleeper cells and plot and plan the next huge atrocity which will be in the UK, and initiated when 'the time is right'?

Wouldn't these bastards CLAIM to have been 'misguided' and swear they are now repentant - just as they ALL are claiming?

I mean; they would hardly say:

"Yeah, we detest you British and have now returned to plot and plan your downfall having received training and full instructions from our ISIS warlords".

Would they?

NONE of these twats should have been let back into this country.

NONE.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I agree the comments are way ott :/
You can't counter bloodlust with more bloodlust where will it end?
I wouldn't send her back there, she's back which is a miracle in itself though as if she was to enter the heart of the IS I can't see her getting out alive if she simply said she preferred her westernised life...
She could be important in as much as it could be learnt how this girls are targeted and lured across initially? That information could be invaluable in furthering counter terrorism.

How many of the poor mites do we need to excuse and sympathise with on the pretext of their reasons for becoming traitors 'being 'useful' to us?

She CHOSE to join ISIS because she empathised, sympathised, and identified MORE with THEM than US.

Simple as. Choice made - No LIKEY - NO RETURNEE.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

OK BOTS. If you feel that three years in a tax-payer funded 5* Hotel with all the home comforts which even most British Pensioners cannot afford , is approprite 'punishment' for treason, then you - like me - are entitled to your opinion.

One thing;

Until this prosecution and sentence, ALL of the traitors who 'fled' (ironic word that eh?) the UK and went to Syria and actually joined ISIS - posing with guns, corpseless heads, happy smiling photos with their 'heroes' whilst wearing the ISIS combat uniform like some 'Badge of Honour' - who have then returned here claiming they were 'misguided' and 'sorry' or simlar, have been ALLOWED re-entry.

But WHAT IF, just SOME of these bastards are REALLY merely following orders from ISIS high command, and returning here fully briefed as 'Fifth Columnists' to clandestinely communicate with other covert terrorist sleeper cells and plot and plan the next huge atrocity which will be in the UK, and initiated when 'the time is right'?

Wouldn't these bastards CLAIM to have been 'misguided' and swear they are now repentant - just as they ALL are claiming?

I mean; they would hardly say:

"Yeah, we detest you British and have now returned to plot and plan your downfall having received training and full instructions from our ISIS warlords".

Would they?

NONE of these twats should have been let back into this country.

NONE.

She was sentenced to 6 years for being a member of a banned organisation, not 3 years. The fact that the majority of prisoners don't serve the time allocated is a different subject.

We cannot lock her up on the basis of what she might do, only on what she has done. That's why we have a fair justice system here, something that ISIS will never have.

[DemolitionRed]

@Kirk
Muslims are being portrayed to be the enemy and Cameron hasn’t held back when it comes to the stereotyping of British Muslim communities. Cameron and Theresa May have legitimized racism and propagated resentment and from where I’m sitting its starting to feel like the McCarthyism witch trials.

Even the West Midlands police were concerned enough to make an official complaint about the The Channel 4 Dispatches program, ‘ Muslims Undercover’ because they felt it was a green light to any xenophobic, neo-fascist, racist. Well there are lots of green lights and you only have to listen to the vile spitting venom from people who used to be otherwise unbothered, to see what is happening here.

Fortunately I’m not on my own in sensing that Islam is being criminalized and our concerns are, the more we do this, the more likely people will radicalise; the more we exploit these fears across our nation, the more likely fraction groups will go underground.

What surprises me more than anything else is this sudden mood swing towards OUR Christian nation. I mean, where the hell did all these Christians suddenly appear from.

We are not at war with Islam, we are at war with ISIS.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

@Kirk
Muslims are being portrayed to be the enemy and Cameron hasn’t held back when it comes to the stereotyping of British Muslim communities. Cameron and Theresa May have legitimized racism and propagated resentment and from where I’m sitting its starting to feel like the McCarthyism witch trials.

Even the West Midlands police were concerned enough to make an official complaint about the The Channel 4 Dispatches program, ‘ Muslims Undercover’ because they felt it was a green light to any xenophobic, neo-fascist, racist. Well there are lots of green lights and you only have to listen to the vile spitting venom from people who used to be otherwise unbothered, to see what is happening here.

Fortunately I’m not on my own in sensing that Islam is being criminalized and our concerns are, the more we do this, the more likely people will radicalise; the more we exploit these fears across our nation, the more likely fraction groups will go underground.

What surprises me more than anything else is this sudden mood swing towards OUR Christian nation. I mean, where the hell did all these Christians suddenly appear from.

We are not at war with Islam, we are at war with ISIS.

First of all Red - I NEVER misrepresent members posts, so please refrain from doing so with mine , because I NEVER said or even implied that we were at war with Islam

The subject of this thread is a traitor who left this country to join ISIS, and I stated:

"We are AT WAR. A war declared upon humanity by the some of the most insane, barbaric, merciless, cruel and inhuman beasts that we have ever witnessed."

Islam has not declared war on us or the rest of the world, only ISIS has done that, and given this fact, and the thread subject matter and context - I think it is irrefutably CRYSTAL CLEAR to any honest, rational and impartial reader, that I am referring to ISIS and Islamic terrorists and NOT ISLAM.

Secondly;

"Muslims are being portrayed to be the enemy and Cameron hasn’t held back when it comes to the stereotyping of British Muslim communities. Cameron and Theresa May have legitimized racism and propagated resentment and from where I’m sitting its starting to feel like the McCarthyism witch trials."


The above is just mere repetition of the statements which you made in your original post, and yet again, with NO corroborating evidence to substantiate your claims.

Just how is Cameron 'portraying Muslims as the enemy'?

Is this merely YOUR interpretation of Cameron's policies on Islamic Terrorism? Or has he actually stated definite anti-Muslim sentiments? And when you state that he 'stereotypes British Muslim Communities' - in what way? What has he actually SAID that makes you say this?

These are not 'leading' or 'loaded' questions, I genuinely do not recognize any validity in your claims based upon what I have witnessed Cameron say on this subject.

Similarly; how have "Cameron and Theresa May" "legitimized racism and propagated resentment"?

There will ALWAYS be unsavoury elements of society who will pounce with relish upon any opportunity presented by new laws or regulations - the Human Rights Act' is being constantly misused by opportunists for their own nefarious ends, whether it be career criminals suing the Police because they were bitten by a police dog whilst fleeing the scene of a crime they had just committed, or sinister banned Terrorist groups suing to have the ban overturned - and if racists see an opportunity to use any tougher new laws to help combat terrorism as an excuse to vent their offensive views, then that is not the fault of the government, and I do not for one moment believe that May or Cameron ae actually complicit in such acts.

Indeed, rather than repeal any new anti-terrorist laws because they may inadvertently encourage racists to be more vociferous, all that is needed is for the authorities to clamp down more harshly on such racists.

"Even the West Midlands police were concerned enough to make an official complaint about the The Channel 4 Dispatches program, ‘ Muslims Undercover’ because they felt it was a green light to any xenophobic, neo-fascist, racist. Well there are lots of green lights and you only have to listen to the vile spitting venom from people who used to be otherwise unbothered, to see what is happening here. "

There ARE, always HAVE been, and always WILL BE, TV programmes which are politically slanted by design - whether Documentaries, News, or even Dramas - and whether sympathetic to the Left Wing or Right Wing, or Pro- Immigrant lobby or anti-Immigrant lobby, etc etc. and the Channel 4 Dispatches program is sadly one of such, but for every one of this kind there is another which just as shamelessly and dishonestly is pro-Immigration and pro-Islam.

"Fortunately I’m not on my own in sensing that Islam is being criminalized and our concerns are, the more we do this, the more likely people will radicalise; the more we exploit these fears across our nation, the more likely fraction groups will go underground."

I'm sorry Red, but I will never agree that Islam is being 'criminaiised' because from my perspective only ISLAMIC CRIMINALS are being criminalised - ie; terrorists.

I do not understand what you mean by 'Fraction groups' but for too long in this country pro-Islamic terrorist support groups and Islamic Hate Preachers have been tolerated by our Government and allowed to spit their hate and bile on rostrums in our universities and other seats of learning, and we have allowed radical Islamics to flourish in our society under various guises from tax assisted 'Charity Organisations' to 'Islamic Schools' and it is THIS apathy which has allowed the radicalisation of our young people in unknown numbers, so ANY law which rights this wrong is LONG overdue and does not go far enough in my opinion.

[DemolitionRed]

I'm against Islamic hate groups and I'm against Muslims supporting the ISIS cause and I worry about radicalization but that isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the growing cultural racism in the UK and my comments came from the 'FS' comments after the ops link. I didn't suggest for a moment that you are Islamophobic, I suggested supporting such freedom of speech is wrong and you know what? I also have freedom of speech.

What are you wanting me to prove?
This: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-34138127 and this: http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/fea...054323264.html
or this: http://metro.co.uk/2015/06/19/david-...peech-5253627/
and this:http://www.thejournal.ie/david-camer...55535-Jan2016/
and this:http://news.sky.com/story/1568455/ch...im-hate-crimes of which Cameron paid lip service to the problems and made promises he didn't fulfil.

I don't know where you live Kirk but I live and work in central London and I've seen the changes and I'm very disturbed by them.

I was washing our quilt in a local launderette a few weeks ago when two African women who run the shop started picking on a Muslim couple and told them they couldn't use the machines.
I've stood at the bus stop with an agitated old white woman who cursed loudly about the Muslims in the queue and I've stood behind a woman in my local coop whilst she slated and spat anti-islam venom at the shop assistant. I have a friend who works for an employment agency who's boss now won't employ anyone with a Muslim sounding name and I work with Muslim people who are considering leaving Britain because they no longer feel safe but the biggest thing that bothers me is, when I meet new people, which I inevitably do through my work, how quickly they want to pass on their Islamophobic views about those dirty Muslims and they do it because Islamophobia, at least in my part of London seems to have become an accepted topic.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I'm against Islamic hate groups and I'm against Muslims supporting the ISIS cause and I worry about radicalization but that isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the growing cultural racism in the UK and my comments came from the 'FS' comments after the ops link. I didn't suggest for a moment that you are Islamophobic, I suggested supporting such freedom of speech is wrong and you know what? I also have freedom of speech.

What are you wanting me to prove?
This: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-34138127 and this: http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/fea...054323264.html
or this: http://metro.co.uk/2015/06/19/david-...peech-5253627/
and this:http://www.thejournal.ie/david-camer...55535-Jan2016/
and this:http://news.sky.com/story/1568455/ch...im-hate-crimes of which Cameron paid lip service to the problems and made promises he didn't fulfil.

I don't know where you live Kirk but I live and work in central London and I've seen the changes and I'm very disturbed by them.

I was washing our quilt in a local launderette a few weeks ago when two African women who run the shop started picking on a Muslim couple and told them they couldn't use the machines.
I've stood at the bus stop with an agitated old white woman who cursed loudly about the Muslims in the queue and I've stood behind a woman in my local coop whilst she slated and spat anti-islam venom at the shop assistant. I have a friend who works for an employment agency who's boss now won't employ anyone with a Muslim sounding name and I work with Muslim people who are considering leaving Britain because they no longer feel safe but the biggest thing that bothers me is, when I meet new people, which I inevitably do through my work, how quickly they want to pass on their Islamophobic views about those dirty Muslims and they do it because Islamophobia, at least in my part of London seems to have become an accepted topic.

Of course if our 'prime' minister is using derogatory terms it will filter down and become an acceptable social norm, it's a bit of a double standard to suggest combating hate crime one day and trot out the comments he has of late.