[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah like those suicide bombers, what a waste of life by being so brain washed into thinking that this wasn't "the real life" and if this isn't "the real life" why bother with all the fighting and trying to convert people in the name of God anyway?

...many of those are victims, aren't they, as much as those that are their targets..the victims of those who hate to an extreme but aren't brave enough to take their own lives, religion is just a tool for them, a tool of hate...extreme hate would exist without any religion, it would just have to find another tool...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

On the flip side, you've got countless volunteers with the Red Cross and the Red Crescent, going into war zones to help people. The Salvation Army raising money for refugees, the Church Army doing the same... No one's all good or all bad, human beings are a bit of both, whether they're religious or not.

Yeah that wasn't really my point though, I think people who were that way inclined would help out people in need regardless of whether they were doing it in the name of God or not, I'm not sure so many people would volunteer to blow themselves up unless they truly believed in their cause though and that they would be rewarded in Heaven for it

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

Hitler wasn't particularly religious. Religious people don't have the monopoly on badness... I think you'll find that's humans in general.

I agree with that but, the thing is, I think it will continue to be humans in general until we start to attain some higher form of clarity, a less chaotic concept of existence based on logic and reason and not faith, superstition and fear. It's not that all bad people necessarily "are people of faith" - but they are products of a world that is intellectually stifled BY widespread faith.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Livia

On the flip side, you've got countless volunteers with the Red Cross and the Red Crescent, going into war zones to help people. The Salvation Army raising money for refugees, the Church Army doing the same... No one's all good or all bad, human beings are a bit of both, whether they're religious or not.

...yeah exactly, religious/non religious, most people in the world have balance, it's only the very few extremes that can cause hateful things..and again, whether having a religious faith or not...

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Livia

Hitler wasn't particularly religious. Religious people don't have the monopoly on badness... I think you'll find that's humans in general.

..also with that, I definitely wouldn't say that the Jewish people in those concentration camps were anything like people of weak spirit, which some believe of those with religious faith../for them to endure what they did and for those who survived, the very opposite of 'weakness' in humans/mental weakness...

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah that wasn't really my point though, I think people who were that way inclined would help out people in need regardless of whether they were doing it in the name of God or not, I'm not sure so many people would volunteer to blow themselves up unless they truly believed in their cause though and that they would be rewarded in Heaven for it

Kamikaze pilots in WW2 blew themselves up for the Emperor.

Some people are good, some people are bad. Religion is not the root of all evil on earth. Humans are.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

Kamikaze pilots in WW2 blew themselves up for the Emperor.

Some people are good, some people are bad. Religion is not the root of all evil on earth. Humans are.

Yes but Religion was created by humans though, just seems like a good way to control the masses to me. So many rules that make little to no sense...all man made in "Gods" name

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

Religion is not the root of all evil on earth. Humans are.

This is somewhat meaningless if you believe that religion is an entirely human construct.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

What I've never understood about religion/God (mainly a religious God I guess) is why he/she/it would want people to believe in him/her/it based on faith and some ancient unreliable stories? If he/she/it created us as relatively intelligent beings why would he want people to waste the life he/she/it gave us worshiping him/her/it blindly and fighting over who is right or wrong or whatever or wasting our lives trying to prove or disprove their existence?

The way I see it Niamh is we were given free will,what we chose to do with that free will is entirely our doing,I believe in God but I am not on my knees every hour praying,I do try and live a good life,it doesn't always work,I curse and swear and have been a swine in my time,I don't go to church every week,I do pray,but quietly to myself. I think we chose to believe in God,not him wanting us to believe,and I am sure God must be sighing in disbelief at some of the atrocities we are committing on the planet,and whether you believe or not if you look at the 10 commandments surely that cant be a bad way to live,if people kinda followed that the world would be a much better place,I don't think I am wasting my life believing in God,God is just there.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

This is somewhat meaningless if you believe that religion is an entirely human construct.

and of course it is

Its a convenient way that us clever humans have constructed to use as a get out of jail free card


just shout alah snackbar and bobs your uncle

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah that wasn't really my point though, I think people who were that way inclined would help out people in need regardless of whether they were doing it in the name of God or not, I'm not sure so many people would volunteer to blow themselves up unless they truly believed in their cause though and that they would be rewarded in Heaven for it

Humans blow themselves up as they have been brainwashed by other humans,to believe they will be rewarded.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

The way I see it Niamh is we were given free will,what we chose to do with that free will is entirely our doing,I believe in God but I am not on my knees every hour praying,I do try and live a good life,it doesn't always work,I curse and swear and have been a swine in my time,I don't go to church every week,I do pray,but quietly to myself. I think we chose to believe in God,not him wanting us to believe,and I am sure God must be sighing in disbelief at some of the atrocities we are committing on the planet,and whether you believe or not if you look at the 10 commandments surely that cant be a bad way to live,if people kinda followed that the world would be a much better place,I don't think I am wasting my life believing in God,God is just there.

That's absolutely fair enough Kazanne. The 10 Commandments were written by man though imo

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

and of course it is

Its a convenient way that us clever humans have constructed to use as a get out of jail free card


just shout alah snackbar and bobs your uncle

I don't think humans are that clever are they LT ? we are slowly destroying the very place we live.

[Crimson Dynamo]

You shall have no other Gods but me. - bit controlling and no way to start a relationship
You shall not make for yourself any idol, nor bow down to it or worship it. - again with the control
You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God. - thats 3 you have wasted now with "all about me " demands
You shall remember and keep the Sabbath day holy. - what does that mean ffs
Respect your father and mother. - yes thats better and a bit obvs
You must not commit murder. - no sh1t sherlock, that is a given
You must not commit adultery. - good again but lets face it, its not gonna happen for lots
You must not steal. - yes that is a good one but I think us humans have worked that one out
You must not give false evidence against your neighbour. - again its good but for the sake of a harmonious life we kind of worked that out
You must not be envious of your neighbour's goods. - well being a wee bit envious he has a better car is gonna happen so soz
You shall not be envious of his house nor his wife, nor anything that belongs to your neighbour. - yeah we covered that in 9




I mean there is a couple of good one but frankly its stuff most humans worked out a long time ago before middle eastern religious cults

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

That's absolutely fair enough Kazanne. The 10 Commandments were written by man though imo

It depends what you believe again Niamh whoever wrote them came from a good place,some also believe they were the word of God,there are things that scientists cannot prove and one of them is what caused the 'big bang' that supposedly created the universe, scientists cant make a single blade of grass.so someone/something had to , if science hasn't got an answer,what is it?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

It depends what you believe again Niamh whoever wrote them came from a good place,some also believe they were the word of God,there are things that scientists cannot prove and one of them is what caused the 'big bang' that supposedly created the universe, scientists cant make a single blade of grass.so someone/something had to , if science hasn't got an answer,what is it?

I have absolutely no idea..............and neither does anyone else but what i do know is that the universe is so big we don't even know where it begins or ends or if it does ever end and so i think it's a bit naive to think that in the grand scheme of things we're actually that important. I have often heard you say that us humans are awful/animals are better etc so if you think that why would you think a God/Gods views us as something so special? More special than anything else that might be out there?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

It depends what you believe again Niamh whoever wrote them came from a good place,some also believe they were the word of God,there are things that scientists cannot prove and one of them is what caused the 'big bang' that supposedly created the universe, scientists cant make a single blade of grass.so someone/something had to , if science hasn't got an answer,what is it?

And so we come to what humans have done throughout the ages... the explanation for primitive Sun gods, Rain gods, Thunder gods, and moving onwards to more modern Gods...

"If you don't know the answer, just make something up."

Human scientists are primitive and limited by what I can only assume is a very limited human intelligence. Yes, we're the most intelligent life-forms on this planet. In universal terms, I think it's safe to assume that we're not all that intelligent at all.

In other words, the fact that human minds don't have the scientific answers to immensely complex questions (yet, or possibly ever) does not automatically mean that god - ANY god - is real. It certainly doesn't mean that a pre-defined God described in a human book is real.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Livia

Kamikaze pilots in WW2 blew themselves up for the Emperor.

Some people are good, some people are bad. Religion is not the root of all evil on earth. Humans are.

..the intolerance of humans..?...

[Crimson Dynamo]

GMO grass is a reality

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I have absolutely no idea..............and neither does anyone else but what i do know is that the universe is so big we don't even know where it begins or ends or if it does ever end and so i think it's a bit naive to think that in the grand scheme of things we're actually that important. I have often heard you say that us humans are awful/animals are better etc so if you think that why would you think a God/Gods views us as something so special? More special than anything else that might be out there?

I think there is a test in life as to whether we are special or not , some people are special, but a lot aren't they are greedy , cruel and nasty all of their own choosing , those are the people I prefer animals to, and I am sure God is not happy with the way we have abused our power , I am sure when we pop our clogs we will get suitably chastised

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I think there is a test in life as to whether we are special or not , some people are special, but a lot aren't they are greedy , cruel and nasty all of their own choosing , those are the people I prefer animals to, and I am sure God is not happy with the way we have abused our power , I am sure when we pop our clogs we will get suitably chastised

hhmmm ok then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that

[Marsh.]

Yeah because those commandments were so obvious to mankind thousands of years ago.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Yeah because those commandments were so obvious to mankind thousands of years ago.

they were to the Celts the Greeks the Romans and the Chinese

even a caveman knew how to look after his family and that killing neighbours was probably going to lead to reprisals


common sense innit

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

they were to the Celts the Greeks the Romans and the Chinese

even a caveman knew how to look after his family and that killing neighbours was probably going to lead to reprisals


common sense innit

He was always coveting his neighbours Club though

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

He was always coveting his neighbours Club though

Niamh! There is nothing wrong with a caveman coveting his neighbour's "club"! They were progressive and it was considered perfectly acceptable, they weren't held back by the dubious moral contraints of organised religion.