[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Drew.

I don't believe in gods or religions but that's not really a valid example. Thats like comparing believing in Aliens to believing in a god. Nodody worships or dedicates their life sacrificing things for Aliens or the Loch Ness monster.

people sacrifice and dedicate their lives to all sorts of things. I would imagine that there are millions of star wars fans who are far more dedicated and know about their subject better than most anglicans for example

I bet the average train spotter knows a lot more about trains than say the average uk christian knows about the bible.

I have seen far more dedication in football fans than i ever did when i was involved in the church.

How you demonstrate your belief is not my point and just because you are pious, dedicated or devoted does not make it any more real

[user104658]

Originally Posted by the truth

So its subjective to insult religious people, but offensive to offend other people? total hypocrisy. Theres nothing constructive or respectful about this or any other Christian or religion bashing thread, its shameful. threads mocking homosexuality would soon be pulled down. Respect works both ways.

No, it's wrong to make comments to someone with the direct intention of causing that person offense.

It is acceptable to debate and converse and express one's thoughts, and not have to censor oneself, in fear that those comments will indirectly cause someone offense.

My advice, in full, to anyone who finds themselves upset or offended by any online debate about something they happen to like or believe... Is to either grow a thicker skin, or avoid discussions where they might find themselves "offended".

I flat out refuse to consider certain topics of conversation "off limits" incase they "hurt someone's feelings". We're not 5 years old, ffs. We can surely handle it. If we can't, we have bigger problems to worry about.

[Drew.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

people sacrifice and dedicate their lives to all sorts of things. I would imagine that there are millions of star wars fans who are far more dedicated and know about their subject better than most anglicans for example

I bet the average train spotter knows a lot more about trains than say the average uk christian knows about the bible.

I have seen far more dedication in football fans than i ever did when i was involved in the church.

How you demonstrate your belief is not my point and just because you are pious, dedicated or devoted does not make it any more real

You're taking away the worshiping and mental side to it all and just focusing on the sacrificing/dedication part.. if we're talking about dedication alone then that could be compared to anything. I'm a huge football fan but it's more of an obsession and a love towards the game rather than a personal belief.. my love and obsession for a game can't be compared to a religion. My knowledge on religions isn't good by all means but i have friends who believe in certain things and its not a hobby to them like sports/movies or whatever else, it's a way of life for them.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

No i've confused you

But which is the real true religion A(many gods) or B(one almighty god) both cannot be the answer.They are a contradiction.There is either one or many.I believe there are non but for a believer either A or B can only be correct not both.So if A is wrong then why can't B also be wrong?This is why i'm not religious.All religions past and present are equal in authenticity to me.It is the most logical outcome.

No, no. You're the one confusing yourself.

Who said both are "true"? Respecting someone else's right to their own beliefs is not a contradiction, no more than respecting someone's different opinion to your own.

For a believer either A or B can only be correct? Yes, that's why most religious people tend to follow one religion. Have you met a Hindu Christian or something?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

people sacrifice and dedicate their lives to all sorts of things. I would imagine that there are millions of star wars fans who are far more dedicated and know about their subject better than most anglicans for example

I bet the average train spotter knows a lot more about trains than say the average uk christian knows about the bible.

I have seen far more dedication in football fans than i ever did when i was involved in the church.

How you demonstrate your belief is not my point and just because you are pious, dedicated or devoted does not make it any more real

There's a lot of generalisations in this post.

I could quite easily say.... I've seen far more violence and anger in football fans than any religious person I've ever met. But that doesn't really add much to this discussion.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

There's a lot of generalisations in this post.

I could quite easily say.... I've seen far more violence and anger in football fans than any religious person I've ever met. But that doesn't really add much to this discussion.

no football fan has resorted to a suicide vest to say their team is better...

[DemolitionRed]

It doesn't make it real to you LT but whilst you can't accept its real you must accept that you can't lambaste those who do believe into not believing.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Oh Marsh he's going to take that as some kind of compliment you know

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

why thankyou

I didn't mean your penis is a monster.

I meant because of your bald head.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

no football fan has resorted to a suicide vest to say their team is better...

No but drunkenly beating the sh*t out of each other and abusing disabled children who support the opposite team is par for the course. Just read an article on the latter ten minutes ago actually. Humans can be despicable.

But, yes, we can talk about extreme examples of a vast number of people all day long doesn't make it relevant at all.

The football thugs don't represent every single person on the planet who enjoys football/sport anymore than your example of a terrorist represents the religion they misinterpret.

[the truth]

[QUOTE=Toy Soldier;8507466]No, it's wrong to make comments to someone with the direct intention of causing that person offense.

This whole thread is designed to cause offence , there is nothing constructive or sincere about it.
It is acceptable to debate and converse and express one's thoughts, and not have to censor oneself, in fear that those comments will indirectly cause someone offense.

This isn't a debate its mockery


My advice, in full, to anyone who finds themselves upset or offended by any online debate about something they happen to like or believe... Is to either grow a thicker skin, or avoid discussions where they might find themselves "offended".

does that apply equally to other groups? gay people? feminists? disabled people? Muslims? I don't think so, people go after feminism on here and they get banned.
I flat out refuse to consider certain topics of conversation "off limits" incase they "hurt someone's feelings". We're not 5 years old, ffs. We can surely handle it. If we can't, we have bigger problems to worry about

Ok then lets hear you mock feminism, gay rights, etc etc

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

No but drunkenly beating the sh*t out of each other and abusing disabled children who support the opposite team is par for the course. Just read an article on the latter ten minutes ago actually. Humans can be despicable.

But, yes, we can talk about extreme examples of a vast number of people all day long doesn't make it relevant at all.

The football thugs don't represent every single person on the planet who enjoys football/sport anymore than your example of a terrorist represents the religion they misinterpret.

good points

[Crimson Dynamo]

Not Marsh and The Truth singing from the same hymn sheet

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

No, no. You're the one confusing yourself.

Who said both are "true"? Respecting someone else's right to their own beliefs is not a contradiction, no more than respecting someone's different opinion to your own.

For a believer either A or B can only be correct? Yes, that's why most religious people tend to follow one religion. Have you met a Hindu Christian or something?

...Marsh....this really is it though/respect ..a tolerance of different faiths and beliefs, and obviously including non beliefs...and respect for those who have those beliefs/not being mocking or belittling of them...(and a few posts in here have been anything but indirectly belittling/mocking but exteremely directly so ..).....because respect leads to tolerance and less prejudices, whether the subject be religion or not...

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by the truth

good points

I'm printing this out RIGHT NOW

[user104658]

Originally Posted by the truth

No, it's wrong to make comments to someone with the direct intention of causing that person offense.

This whole thread is designed to cause offence , there is nothing constructive or sincere about it.
It is acceptable to debate and converse and express one's thoughts, and not have to censor oneself, in fear that those comments will indirectly cause someone offense.

This isn't a debate its mockery


My advice, in full, to anyone who finds themselves upset or offended by any online debate about something they happen to like or believe... Is to either grow a thicker skin, or avoid discussions where they might find themselves "offended".

does that apply equally to other groups? gay people? feminists? disabled people? Muslims? I don't think so, people go after feminism on here and they get banned.
I flat out refuse to consider certain topics of conversation "off limits" incase they "hurt someone's feelings". We're not 5 years old, ffs. We can surely handle it. If we can't, we have bigger problems to worry about

Ok then lets hear you mock feminism, gay rights, etc etc

I didn't make the thread.

And yes, it applies across the board, although like I said, it's not "mocking" to argue against something. Obviously I'm not going to argue against gay rights, as I fully believe in gay rights, but if you scout around a little I'm sure you'll find quite a few threads where I am vocally against modern feminism.

I also don't particularly understand your point about Muslims. This thread is not about Christians or Christianity - it's about any and all religions. That includes Islam.

[user104658]

Can I also just say in reference to a lot of the above... Respecting someone's right to their opinion does not necessitate accepting that opinion as fact or possibility. You can respect someones right to HAVE an opinion and beliefs, whilst at the same time unambiguously stating that you think those beliefs are incorrect.

To flip Truth's logic around: if we must respect everyone's right to believe in religion x, y or z... Must we not then also respect the beliefs of terrorists? White supremacists? Trump supporters?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...Marsh....this really is it though/respect ..a tolerance of different faiths and beliefs, and obviously including non beliefs...and respect for those who have those beliefs/not being mocking or belittling of them...(and a few posts in here have been anything but indirectly belittling/mocking but exteremely directly so ..).....because respect leads to tolerance and less prejudices, whether the subject be religion or not...

So I take it you do not agree with such things as The Life or Brian or Father Ted?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Can I also just say in reference to a lot of the above... Respecting someone's right to their opinion does not necessitate accepting that opinion as fact or possibility. You can respect someones right to HAVE an opinion and beliefs, whilst at the same time unambiguously stating that you think those beliefs are incorrect.

That wasn't really the point I was making. Recap those comments in the context of the conversation I had with the other poster.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Everything always comes back to bloody divorce with you.

I think Kizzy's single so go and make sweet love.

How would this work? I believe in god and he doesn't, did you forget that?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

How would this work? I believe in god and he doesn't, did you forget that?

we can put that to one side and get naked tho

right?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..also with that, I definitely wouldn't say that the Jewish people in those concentration camps were anything like people of weak spirit, which some believe of those with religious faith../for them to endure what they did and for those who survived, the very opposite of 'weakness' in humans/mental weakness...

Wait a minute, I hope this isn't a reference to my comments at the beginning of the thread.
I really hope that isn't a twist on my comments because that isn't what I said at all.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Can I also just say in reference to a lot of the above... Respecting someone's right to their opinion does not necessitate accepting that opinion as fact or possibility. You can respect someones right to HAVE an opinion and beliefs, whilst at the same time unambiguously stating that you think those beliefs are incorrect.

To flip Truth's logic around: if we must respect everyone's right to believe in religion x, y or z... Must we not then also respect the beliefs of terrorists? White supremacists? Trump supporters?

No because terrorists don't respect religion
White supremacists don't have to be religious
Trump supporters come mainly under the category of white supremacists.

[the truth]

Jesus was awesome

[user104658]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

No because terrorists don't respect religion
White supremacists don't have to be religious
Trump supporters come mainly under the category of white supremacists.

Why does that matter, though? Why does "we have to respect the beliefs of others and not say anything about it if we think they're wrong" come with caveats that mean it only applies to SOME beliefs and not others? Who gets to decide which belief systems are damaging and which are benign? It's all completely subjective... so, the only sensible option is to say that it's OK to question and disagree with any or none.

[Kizzy]

Supremacists come under the terrorist umbrella though surely?