[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's just my opinion.

In my experience of certain individuals who happen to hold certain beliefs that could be described as religious in nature, those individuals become very emotionally uncomfortable when faced with the prospect of an in-depth discussion on the nature of faith. I don't know if that applies to all religious people. Just the ones that I, in my personal experience, happen to have encountered.

"An in-depth discussion on the nature of faith".

Do you think that's what this has been so far?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I was not replying to you Marsh


Now this thread is making you paranoid

Yeah, you quoting me and using the word "morsh".

My goodness, you were clearly talking to Kizzy.

Silly me.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Livia

"An in-depth discussion on the nature of faith".

Do you think that's what this has been so far?

we have tried but the "religious people" keep taking offence

Only Kirk tries to debate, to his great credit

[Crimson Dynamo]

and kaz to be fair

[Marsh.]

So why don't you debate in return LT?

It's your thread after all?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

Or... maybe they're just well aware of how it'll turn out. All the atheists getting together to accuse people with faith that they're pretty stupid really. Read through this thread, if you're honest about it you'll see what I mean.

In your opinion. In my opinion, certain individuals take needless personal offense and I can't help but wonder why that is. No one is questioning your intelligence, Livia.

You assume people are repressed, you assume a lot... the thing you never assume is that it's none of your business what people believe and knowing the thread will descend into this kind of meaningless nonsense maybe some of us prefer to keep our faith to ourselves. Pretty rich to expect people to justify themselves for your entertainment when all you want to do really is argue. That's not a debate.

I don't expect anything from anyone. I express my opinions openly on any thread that interests me and accept that any other member is free to do that also. Or not, if they're not comfortable with it, are bored by it, or simply think the thread is stupid. That's entirely their business. I don't care who replies to what . In my opinion, I would LIKE it if lots of people responded to all sorts of threads because it makes them more interesting... you know... because in my opinion, a discussion forum is a fun distraction to muse over various issues and pass the time. Not an emotional investment. Not that it's any of my business if others DO take personal offense / become emotionally invested in things, either, of course. I just happen not to.

[billy123]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

So why don't you debate in return LT?

It's your thread after all?

If the last few pages of this thread have proved anything it is that there are a few very angry people on here that are only interested in trying to offend rather than debate. When i as an atheist get told to stop forcing religion on people you know theres being an extra dose of daft sprinkled on the thread.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

0/10. Must try harder next time.

But, whether that's your opinion or not, it doesn't apply to this thread in particular. Started by a certain atheist to mock people who believe in a God or Gods.

in your opinion!

But I would like to see where, exactly, in these 26 pages there's been an "in-depth discussion on the nature of faith". The foundation of this discussion isn't even interested in that.

No no no, and to Livia as well, I didn't say that THIS was an in-depth discussion on the nature of faith. I said that, in my past experience of religious people when these topics are addressed, there is a strong aversion that stems from complex emotional involvement. Those past experiences are what have lead me to the OPINION that religious people don't make religious threads because they want to avoid that.

But like I said - I could be totally wrong because I obviously haven't met all 6-billion-or-so religious people in the world. So it's just my opinion based on my experiences

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

No no no, and to Livia as well, I didn't say that THIS was an in-depth discussion on the nature of faith. I said that, in my past experience of religious people when these topics are addressed, there is a strong aversion that stems from complex emotional involvement. Those past experiences are what have lead me to the OPINION that religious people don't make religious threads because they want to avoid that.

But like I said - I could be totally wrong because I obviously haven't met all 6-billion-or-so religious people in the world. So it's just my opinion based on my experiences

I am so glad you added that last sentence.

We don't need people returning to these pages in a few hours and getting hot and bothered over baseless generalisations.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by bobnot

If the last few pages of this thread have proved anything it is that there are a few very angry people on here that are only interested in trying to offend rather than debate. When i as an atheist get told to stop forcing religion on people you know theres being an extra dose of daft sprinkled on the thread.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

In your opinion. In my opinion, certain individuals take needless personal offense and I can't help but wonder why that is. No one is questioning your intelligence, Livia.



I don't expect anything from anyone. I express my opinions openly on any thread that interests me and accept that any other member is free to do that also. Or not, if they're not comfortable with it, are bored by it, or simply think the thread is stupid. That's entirely their business. I don't care who replies to what . In my opinion, I would LIKE it if lots of people responded to all sorts of threads because it makes them more interesting... you know... because in my opinion, a discussion forum is a fun distraction to muse over various issues and pass the time. Not an emotional investment. Not that it's any of my business if others DO take personal offense / become emotionally invested in things, either, of course. I just happen not to.

..I agree, I think many of us want that/it's the whole interesting part of discussion/debate but that can only happen..(imho of course....)...if things are actually discussed with respect and if people themselves aren't mocked...otherwise the person who is mocking is the one closing the discussion/debate down and making it less likely for any future thread participation...

[Ammi]

..actually just going back to Marsh, TS because I read your post about mis-interpreting...(which was lovely btw..)...one thing I do know with Marsh in his time on the forum, if he were to generalise..?...then he would own that generalisation completely, he's definitely not a 'back'peddlar' person..if it's his intention to say something then he totally stands by it and I think with no exception that I can recall atm..

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I agree, I think many of us want that/it's the whole interesting part of discussion/debate but that can only happen..(imho of course....)...if things are actually discussed with respect and if people themselves aren't mocked...otherwise the person who is mocking is the one closing the discussion/debate down and making it less likely for any future thread participation...

I'll tentatively agree that mocking can start to go too far... but I think it's fairly obvious that I personally like my discussions to be a little heated, and to involve a little bit of pigtail-pulling on both sides. I honestly believe that the most interesting and revealing opinions don't even start to come out until a little bit of the guard has been dropped. The challenge is finding the sweet spot between guards being dropped, and defenses going up .

Just a thought though - if thread participation is inversely proportional to level of mockery... how do you explain this thread having 27 pages?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..actually just going back to Marsh, TS because I read your post about mis-interpreting...(which was lovely btw..)...one thing I do know with Marsh in his time on the forum, if he were to generalise..?...then he would own that generalisation completely, he's definitely not a 'back'peddlar' person..if it's his intention to say something then he totally stands by it and I think with no exception that I can recall atm..

Thank you.

I don't have the reputation in TiBB Towers for being someone to shy away from what I think.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Just a thought though - if thread participation is inversely proportional to level of mockery... how do you explain this thread having 27 pages?

Well when the majority of those 27 pages isn't even discussing the topic posed by the thread itself?

[Ninastar]

My god, I'm not religious at all, but the way some of you are treating religious people is disgusting. Why can't you just leave them alone? Fair enough you don't believe but to patronize and act all high and mighty... There is just no need. Live and let live, seriously.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by bobnot

If the last few pages of this thread have proved anything it is that there are a few very angry people on here that are only interested in trying to offend rather than debate. When i as an atheist get told to stop forcing religion on people you know theres being an extra dose of daft sprinkled on the thread.

Originally Posted by bobnot : "What on earth are you jibbering on about now?. "


------

sigh, yes bob when we need a moral headteacher in this thread you are our go to guy

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

My god, I'm not religious at all, but the way some of you are treating religious people is disgusting. Why can't you just leave them alone? Fair enough you don't believe but to patronize and act all high and mighty... There is just no need. Live and let live, seriously.

really?

can you provide the thread post numbers where it has been disgusting?


just the numbers would be fine

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

In your opinion. In my opinion, certain individuals take needless personal offense and I can't help but wonder why that is. No one is questioning your intelligence, Livia.



I don't expect anything from anyone. I express my opinions openly on any thread that interests me and accept that any other member is free to do that also. Or not, if they're not comfortable with it, are bored by it, or simply think the thread is stupid. That's entirely their business. I don't care who replies to what . In my opinion, I would LIKE it if lots of people responded to all sorts of threads because it makes them more interesting... you know... because in my opinion, a discussion forum is a fun distraction to muse over various issues and pass the time. Not an emotional investment. Not that it's any of my business if others DO take personal offense / become emotionally invested in things, either, of course. I just happen not to.

I have a faith. If you don't think my intelligence has been questioned in this thread then you haven't read it properly. No one's singled me out but I do belong to the group that is continually being accused of being gullible and stupid.

You can't expect to rudely, and without any more evidence than I have, debunk someone religion and culture and not have people take offence. I have taken offence at several comments in this thread because I have found them offensive. That is my prerogative. I like a fun debate too, I don't enjoy feeling defensive, which is what happens when the debate becomes offensive.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

really?

can you provide the thread post numbers where it has been disgusting?


just the numbers would be fine

I'll start....

Post Number 1.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I'll start....

Post Number 1.

i am being serious

too many posts saying "this is an attack" etc and no evidence

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

i am being serious

too many posts saying "this is an attack" etc and no evidence

I'm being serious.

Would you call the opening post to this "serious debate" actually serious, posing any sort of debate? I wouldn't.
It begins the mocking tone of the majority of the thread.

The first response was laughing smileys. That says it all.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'll tentatively agree that mocking can start to go too far... but I think it's fairly obvious that I personally like my discussions to be a little heated, and to involve a little bit of pigtail-pulling on both sides. I honestly believe that the most interesting and revealing opinions don't even start to come out until a little bit of the guard has been dropped. The challenge is finding the sweet spot between guards being dropped, and defenses going up .

Just a thought though - if thread participation is inversely proportional to level of mockery... how do you explain this thread having 27 pages?

...you're only looking at this one thread though and of course we've just finished CBB/the start of the off season etc and trying to get more threads going in all parts of the forum...you're not looking at future threads, God sees the bigger picture TS, the grand plan, type thing/he's most wise.....



..(I actually don't have a faith in any religion/my faith is in people but intolerance of any kind doesn't sit well with me, including of religions/faiths/beliefs and non religion and intolerance has been show in this thread (at times and by some), I feel..)...

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...you're only looking at this one thread though and of course we've just finished CBB/the start of the off season etc and trying to get more threads going in all parts of the forum...you're not looking at future threads, God sees the bigger picture TS, the grand plan, type thing/he's most wise.....



..(I actually don't have a faith in any religion/my faith is in people but intolerance of any kind doesn't sit well with me, including of religions/faiths/beliefs and non religion and intolerance has been show in this thread (at times and by some), I feel..)...

I think some feel that religion should be shown some deference and others and i include myself dont

so therefore you get some hurt feelings


ultimately this thread is not compulsory

[Crimson Dynamo]

Youtube video

This is a good watch and relates to the thread