[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by arista

Its all up in the Air.

We Need 2 hour Debates
On all these channels
BBC ,ITV , Sky, Ch5, Ch4

I agree Arista. We need more public question time debates.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Thank God we opted out of the Schengen agreement; if we hadn't I'm convinced that we would have had at least one Paris/Brussels style atrocity here. Border control is the biggest topic, as far as I can see, that makes people want to leave the EU. And I know a large proportion of terrorist recently have been home grown, but not exclusively and more IS people are arriving every day in the guise of refugees. If I was leading IS, I'd make sure that as many of my people as possible were among the refugees. And look at the freedom that Salah Abdeslam had to move backwards and forwards between Belgium and France. In a time of high terrorist risk, to continue to have open borders is r i d i c u l o u s.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...em-today-video

[MTVN]

It's a fair point whether Schengen has made extremists work easier but then we're not a part of Schengen so its all academic in our relationship to the EU. So atm we avoid the murkiness of open borders while having the huge benefits of shared intelligence and cross border collaboration on security which is largely a product of the EU. I know which vote in June will make me feel safer.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

Forum rules state not to get personal. Please stick to the forum rules.
If you want to vote to stay in then by all means do so. That is your choice. But why post over and over again the same thing asking for guarantees when you already know the answer and your gonna vote to stay in regardless? Also come the 24th June the day after the vote and we stay IN who is to say that the EU will not come out with more demands for more money from the UK? Can YOU guarantee that the EU won't? No you can't. So banging on about wanting guarantees is all well and good but the reality is that there are NO guarantees whichever way it goes.

Excuse me,I am fully aware of forum rules and to my knowledge I have never broken any or been told I have by any moderator,perhaps one or more of them would enlighten me as to how I have here with you since you,in my view, unjustly accuse me of same..
I am responding to you as you have to me so it is personal and no way have I even made the slightest insult towards yourself whatsoever.

In answer to your question,no I could not guarantee the EU may ask for more funds although the PM you admire so greatly has stated we will be likely in real terms paying less in the future.
Whether he is right on that I cannot guarantee.

However,even if we did some time in the future pay more to the EU, which I think and hope we will not. I do know we will still be as successful and maybe even more than we are now as full members and that any difficulties economically that may arise will be worked through together with the EU.

I also know for sure that there will be no tariffs on our trade and no other conditions as to that trade or any other conditions because we are still full members.
I can guarantee that because that is how it has been for us as members these last decades and so it will continue, no reason at all for it not to.

I can also guarantee no further treaty deals with the EU that the UK does not want since our Parliament has put into law that any new treaty from the EU cannot be signed unless the UK voters agree to it in a referendum.
We on the in side can also, on the PMs word,guarantee the UK will not be expected to nor will join the Euro.

That is quite a fair amount of guarantees the in side can point to and happily be able to give,now with respect again, where are yours?

As to repeating myself over and over, well on this thread there is a lot of that on both sides. it is a debate after all and that happens as in politics,serious issues and even general elections the same message hammered home time and time again.

You were on about no guarantees from anywhere and also not the in side, so again for your benefit, I listed the ones I have pointed out time and time again over this thread and as I do to many people I talk to off tibb too.
I also don't understand why the out side get so edgy over being asked for assurances for our future out of the EU, surely they should at least have some concrete ideas.
I do keep asking those questions however as I have had no answers yet and one day someone may just offer some that are credible if I keep asking.

That I doubt however is actually breaking forum rules but then that is for a moderator to advise me on I would respectfully say.

[the truth]

The European nations are all going bankrupt apart from Germany Austria, even france is struggling with 11% unemployment. the rest is a disaster,the EU is a disaster for all businesses , part from corporations. that's why majority of small businesses utterly crucified by insane layers of rules, red tape, burocracy and laws...want to leave and the corporations want us to stay. We are not safer in the EU , its amirage, are greece safer, Iceland, Belgium? france? Italy who had their democratically elected government replaced by the german chancellor? we are in greater danger than ever, decisions can never be made, you have to run it past 500+ million and 30 nations, everytime you want to change a light bulb....TTIB and NAFTA are merging to take over Europe and we are letting them, simple as that. THE EU enslaves us forever.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by MTVN

It's a fair point whether Schengen has made extremists work easier but then we're not a part of Schengen so its all academic in our relationship to the EU. So atm we avoid the murkiness of open borders while having the huge benefits of shared intelligence and cross border collaboration on security which is largely a product of the EU. I know which vote in June will make me feel safer.

It's well-known that the UK does not share all our intelligence with the EU and that our Security Services refer to the EU security system as a colander, ie: it leaks.

[Kizzy]

I'd say that's an out moded view, how would our security services function as effectively without the European arrest warrant?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I'd say that's an out moded view, how would our security services function as effectively without the European arrest warrant?

I'm talking about the security services not just the police.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Livia

It's well-known that the UK does not share all our intelligence with the EU and that our Security Services refer to the EU security system as a colander, ie: it leaks.

Absolutely, they would never jeapordise their own operations. Any shared security details wrt terrorists will be related to globally known terrorists only

[kirklancaster]

"QUITTING EU WOULD MAKE BRITAIN SAFER SAYS FORMER MI6 CHIEF "

Sir Richard Dearlove suggests Brexit would make it easier to deport terrorists and control our borders. The former head of MI6 demolished the security case for staying in the EU. Sir Richard Dearlove said Brexit would make it easier to deport terrorists and added that British intelligence services 'give much more' than they get in return.

Washington was a more important counter-terror ally than the EU, he said.

WHO KNOWS BEST - THE 'REMAIN IN' GUESS MERCHANTS? OR THE FORMER HEAD OF MI6?

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz43qdOwF1i

IF YOU VALUE YOUR FUTURE AND THIS COUNTRY'S FUTURE - VOTE OUT.

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

"QUITTING EU WOULD MAKE BRITAIN SAFER SAYS FORMER MI6 CHIEF "

Sir Richard Dearlove suggests Brexit would make it easier to deport terrorists and control our borders. The former head of MI6 demolished the security case for staying in the EU. Sir Richard Dearlove said Brexit would make it easier to deport terrorists and added that British intelligence services 'give much more' than they get in return.

Washington was a more important counter-terror ally than the EU, he said.

WHO KNOWS BEST - THE 'REMAIN IN' GUESS MERCHANTS? OR THE FORMER HEAD OF MI6?
]

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz43qdOwF1i

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...errorists.html

IF YOU VALUE YOUR FUTURE AND THIS COUNTRY'S FUTURE - VOTE OUT.

I value my future and will vote out to protect myself and my loved ones.

[Kizzy]

Getting rid of the Human Rights Act would be a prerequisite then naturally?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

I'm talking about the security services not just the police.

How would either function effectively?

[joeysteele]

If that is how this former MI6 chief feels and sees it, he has every right to say his piece and make his contribution to the debate.

However times have moved on since he was in such a position,certainly as to the likes of IS,and my guess would be of those in the know 'now' few would likely support his position.

I personally don't disagree with him totally and wouldn't dismiss all he says as he clearly has had great experience.
These are people I would give some attention to.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Livia

It's well-known that the UK does not share all our intelligence with the EU and that our Security Services refer to the EU security system as a colander, ie: it leaks.

Maybe so and I'm sure that would always be the case, but I also don't think it can be denied that the EU has facilitated closer cross-border collaboration on security through the intelligence that we do share and through organisations like Europol

[Kizzy]

as seen today not sharing information is risky too, it must be quite frustrating to find out after a terrorist attack that there was intelligence on individuals that was not shared?

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Livia

It's well-known that the UK does not share all our intelligence with the EU and that our Security Services refer to the EU security system as a colander, ie: it leaks.

Also intelligence sharing is based in bi-lateral agreements with individual countries and nothing to do with the EU(according to The Daily Politics).These would continue in or out of the EU.

[DemolitionRed]

Well blow me down with a feather, the Americans project of fear has started
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-35808955

[Kizzy]

Well it could, if we're not sharing intelligence efficiently whilst in the EU then NATO is within it's rights to question whether that could worsen if we leave.

[arista]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

"QUITTING EU WOULD MAKE BRITAIN SAFER SAYS FORMER MI6 CHIEF "

Sir Richard Dearlove suggests Brexit would make it easier to deport terrorists and control our borders. The former head of MI6 demolished the security case for staying in the EU. Sir Richard Dearlove said Brexit would make it easier to deport terrorists and added that British intelligence services 'give much more' than they get in return.

Washington was a more important counter-terror ally than the EU, he said.

WHO KNOWS BEST - THE 'REMAIN IN' GUESS MERCHANTS? OR THE FORMER HEAD OF MI6?

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz43qdOwF1i

IF YOU VALUE YOUR FUTURE AND THIS COUNTRY'S FUTURE - VOTE OUT.

Yes Kirk the MI6 man
is top guy.
He spoke the truth.

[arista]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Well blow me down with a feather, the Americans project of fear has started
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-35808955

Its None of their Fecking Business

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by arista

Its None of their Fecking Business

Looks like they are making it their business Arista.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

Its None of their Fecking Business

I think since we have companies from the USA investing in jobs and bases here in the UK in order to gain access to the EU then the USA has a right in that instance to at least say what its view is of what they see as the better decision for them as to this referendum.

I said before, the Indian leader has said the UK should stay in the EU as I understand China has too.
So I see no issue with the USA,our supposed closest ally making its view known.

That said any major possible interference in the process is not acceptable.

[bots]

I think its important to be aware of the facts so that voters can make an informed decision, and that includes facts related to future foreign country investment. However, we need to make sure that their comments are related to our best interests, not theirs, and that's a more difficult area to get a clear view of

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I think its important to be aware of the facts so that voters can make an informed decision, and that includes facts related to future foreign country investment. However, we need to make sure that their comments are related to our best interests, not theirs, and that's a more difficult area to get a clear view of

I wholeheartedly agree but I don't think the U.S. have our best interest at heart...not for a moment. In fact, if anything, this will sway my vote in the other direction.