[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Not a good idea to bring Diane Abbott to fight your corner.
Her head is stuck that far up her own backside she can't see daylight, never mind a point of view.
Contradicting herself once again.

Why is that then who would you have preferred, John Mann? This is all clever deflection, look at the recent comments made by Boris Johnson towards the president of the USA are they having an inquiry into that?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Marr wasn't making his comments from a place of ignorance. He has been close to MP's for many, many years. Its his job to provoke reaction and he has clearly done it. I have a lot of time for Marr, if he is ruffling feathers, there will be good reason for it

He's a tory stooge, that wasn't ruffling feathers that was an out and out attack, part of operation oust corbyn.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Marr wasn't making his comments from a place of ignorance. He has been close to MP's for many, many years. Its his job to provoke reaction and he has clearly done it. I have a lot of time for Marr, if he is ruffling feathers, there will be good reason for it

I used to enjoy Marr a lot,not this week and not only in talking to Labour politicians either.

I think in interviewing you have to be really balanced and careful not to group all members of a party together and more to the point make general judgements as to a whole party of members.

I felt he grouped all Labour party members together here and crossed a line,just as those saying the left, not some of the left but the whole left are making the same mistake,wile of course ignoring past racism of some of the right.

I do not believe in generalising and grouping together everyone on one side or the other when any controversy rears its head.
So for me Marr crossed a line,whether people like Diane Abbott or not,she went on the programme and for me the one thing she was right on, was to challenge him at his inference that all Labour members have a problem with antisemitism, that is a disgrace.

Oddly enough I too have Jewish friends,their MUM makes in my view the most fantastic cheese straws and while most of them do not vote Labour,even they see a problem with Livingstone and the MP Shah,not however with the whole left of Labour or indeed the whole left of politics.
The few who were going to vote Labour are still going to on Thursday as they disagree that antisemitism is a big problem in the party.

Diane fell down trying to in any way justify Livingstone's comments the way he put them,he has been around a long time, maybe too long ad should know what wording to use so no offence is caused to Jews or anyone else.
The MP as I have said, this was not a whim while a teenager, this was in 2014, the year before she was likely selected to stand as an MP.
No excuses fro her and Livingstone at all in my book,or anyone else this inquiry may root out and find have made or shared any such views.

However as in all prejudice and racism,things have to be taken in full context and not just brand anyone who disagrees with ISRAEL as being antisemitic, even many citizens of Israel are against their govts actions at times and even most of the time.

However I do now feel some of the media and parts of the Labour party are going to use this to discredit all they can Corbyn's leadership.
I still say all parties need a rooting out of any in a small part admittedly,racism or prejudice in their parties,none are whiter that white,the Conservatives party in London where a good number are dismayed at the tones in Zac Goldsmiths campaign, should have questions to answer too as to their real thinking.
UKIP too have had issues with their ranks as indeed other parties with isolated incidents have as well

Labour has acted, I agree with you this inquiry may end up being worthless but I also think that will be the case as much as because there is probably very little of substance to be found as to genuine anti-semitism in the party as anything else.

Wrong in my view to term the whole left of a party as likely being antisemitic and that as now someone more on the left than the right as to myself, was came across from Marr in his interviewing yesterday morning.
Unnecessary and unacceptable to generalise that way and he had to be pushed to make any kind of backing down on that by Diane Abbott too when she challenged him on that.

It never helps to inflame an unsavoury situation by then turning personal prejudice onto whole groups of other people as some are trying to achieve as to all on the left of politics.
They do not say 'some on the left'. they say 'the left',inferring the lot of them whoever they are,well there are as many really decent and people against any prejudice and racism on the left just as there will be on the right.

To use any tense and delicate scenario to spout that prejudice is as wrong as any other prejudice in my view anyway.

[Kizzy]

“The left needs to root out anti-Semitism in its ranks and the right needs to weed out its Islamophobes... Dog-whistle nasty politics is damaging the UK."

Comment by Baroness Warsi on Zac Goldsmiths article.

Where's the inquiry?...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7009126.html

[arista]

Today
A Labour councillor has been suspended for posting comments suggesting Israel should be relocated to the US.


Labour councillor Ilyas Aziz

http://news.sky.com/story/1688489/an...llor-suspended

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by arista

Today
A Labour councillor has been suspended for posting comments suggesting Israel should be relocated to the US.

That's old news arista and one of the things that started all of this.

[arista]

Anti-Semitism Row: Now Two Councillors Suspended
http://news.sky.com/story/1688489/an...lors-suspended

[smudgie]

Oh dear..it is all getting rather messy.
All these pesky councillors etc playing silly beggars on Twitter etc.
Still, it's only 14 or 15 in the past 4 months, heaven forbid if everyone's Twitter account gets checked over.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Oh dear..it is all getting rather messy.
All these pesky councillors etc playing silly beggars on Twitter etc.
Still, it's only 14 or 15 in the past 4 months, heaven forbid if everyone's Twitter account gets checked over.

With respect though smudgie,even if it ran to hundreds,which I firmly believe it will never do,hundreds out of hundreds of thousands of even just alone Labour members,that is still a tiny minority.
Hardly an epidemic of a problem and easily eradicated as to that minority.

I am also pretty sure that checking the twitter and facebook accounts of all members of 'all' other parties too,may also bring some further probably unsavoury and surprising but again, 'tiny minority' of negative results.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

With respect though smudgie,even if it ran to hundreds,which I firmly believe it will never do,hundreds out of hundreds of thousands of even just alone Labour members,that is still a tiny minority.
Hardly an epidemic of a problem and easily eradicated as to that minority.

I am also pretty sure that checking the twitter and facebook accounts of all members of 'all' other parties too,may also bring some further probably unsavoury and surprising but again, 'tiny minority' of negative results.

I would advise all politicians and. Councillors to give Twitter a wide berth, you never know when something can come back and bite you.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by smudgie

I would advise all politicians and. Councillors to give Twitter a wide berth, you never know when something can come back and bite you.

You are right again,I would add facebook to that too.

[bitontheslide]

I don't think its too much to ask of our MP's that they behave in a respectful way, for me that's the crux of the matter. We can all lose our rag from time to time, there is no need to write every notion that enters your head on social media ... its crazy

[arista]

Now its 50 Suspended

[DemolitionRed]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...emitic-and-ra/

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by arista

Now its 50 Suspended

For an organisation that was supposed to champion anti-discrimination and equal rights, that's a substantial number

[joeysteele]

'IF' true, 50 out of hundreds of thousands is really next to nothing and also wait and see, they have bee suspended, that does not yet mean there is anything proven as to being anti-semitic,if there is, it will be investigated and they will be gone.
Any that are actually 'proven' to have been anti-semitic will have to go for good.

I say again, wait and see because it now seems like we are heading into very dangerous waters where anyone who says something about an Islamist Country that is negative is is committing prejudice and anyone against Israel is anti-semitic.

We really make great rods for own backs if we cannot define the difference and end up erring taking action against anyone just expressing a view.

How odd it is not wrong however to label and inflame suspicion and dislike against a democratically elected leader of a party,some of his Cabinet, a legitimate section of politics in the UK re-the left and part members as either red nazis or supporters of same,anti Jewish and supporters of terrorists.
That terminology can be perfectly acceptable,not so, not in any shape or form for me it isn't.

The calculator assessing 50 out of at least hundreds of thousands would have a likely load of noughts after the point to even register a figure of any even miniscule amount.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

'IF' true, 50 out of hundreds of thousands is really next to nothing and also wait and see, they have bee suspended, that does not yet mean there is anything proven as to being anti-semitic,if there is, it will be investigated and they will be gone.
Any that are actually 'proven' to have been anti-semitic will have to go for good.

I say again, wait and see because it now seems like we are heading into very dangerous waters where anyone who says something about an Islamist Country that is negative is is committing prejudice and anyone against Israel is anti-semitic.

We really make great rods for own backs if we cannot define the difference and end up erring taking action against anyone just expressing a view.

How odd it is not wrong however to label and inflame suspicion and dislike against a democratically elected leader of a party,some of his Cabinet, a legitimate section of politics in the UK re-the left and part members as either red nazis or supporters of same,anti Jewish and supporters of terrorists.
That terminology can be perfectly acceptable,not so, not in any shape or form for me it isn't.

The calculator assessing 50 out of at least hundreds of thousands would have a likely load of noughts after the point to even register a figure of any even miniscule amount.

Except its not 50 out of hundreds of thousands, its 50 out of those with active job roles within the party. If it was 50 out of the total of labour MP's ... it would be a hell of a lot.

I do agree that we are in danger again of political correctness going mad, but labour set themselves up for this by taking the higher PC ground in the first place. One can't force standards on others and then not follow it yourselves. That's why its a real problem for the Labour party. What this is highlighting is that people are human. They say things from time to time that aren't acceptable. Does that make someone a bad person, no, not unless its persistent and partnered with hate. Maybe, just maybe, this will bring back a bit of common sense to the whole issue.

[DemolitionRed]

The left is no more or less anti-Semitic than any other section of society. Whilst I agree that such behaviour should be challenged wherever it rears its ugly head, why now... just days before the elections?

Because despite all their efforts, the right wing media are looking at being proved massively wrong on Thursday as Corbyn's popularity energises the Labour party for the first time in a generation, so this issue has been shoved in everyone's faces as a final last desperate attempt at smearing a party which has less racism all round than the Tories.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

The left is no more or less anti-Semitic than any other section of society. Whilst I agree that such behaviour should be challenged wherever it rears its ugly head, why now... just days before the elections?

Because despite all their efforts, the right wing media are looking at being proved massively wrong on Thursday as Corbyn's popularity energises the Labour party for the first time in a generation, so this issue has been shoved in everyone's faces as a final last desperate attempt at smearing a party which has less racism all round than the Tories.

That's not true at all though - Labour are going to have a disaster in Thursday's polls. They're going to lose huge numbers of seats in England and Wales and they're even at risk of falling to 3rd in Scotland behind the Tories - that's unprecedented. And all after the Corbynites said that he would win Scotland back for Labour!

The only success for Labour is going to be Sadiq Khan's likely victory in London which will be a nice symbolic win to calm some of the negative headlines but make no mistake that Thursday is not going to be a good night for the Labour party.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Except its not 50 out of hundreds of thousands, its 50 out of those with active job roles within the party. If it was 50 out of the total of labour MP's ... it would be a hell of a lot.

I do agree that we are in danger again of political correctness going mad, but labour set themselves up for this by taking the higher PC ground in the first place. One can't force standards on others and then not follow it yourselves. That's why its a real problem for the Labour party. What this is highlighting is that people are human. They say things from time to time that aren't acceptable. Does that make someone a bad person, no, not unless its persistent and partnered with hate. Maybe, just maybe, this will bring back a bit of common sense to the whole issue.

Nope, just party members.
It could well be a few of the tories that paid their Ł3 to vote Corbyn in?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by MTVN

That's not true at all though - Labour are going to have a disaster in Thursday's polls. They're going to lose huge numbers of seats in England and Wales and they're even at risk of falling to 3rd in Scotland behind the Tories - that's unprecedented. And all after the Corbynites said that he would win Scotland back for Labour!

The only success for Labour is going to be Sadiq Khan's likely victory in London which will be a nice symbolic win to calm some of the negative headlines but make no mistake that Thursday is not going to be a good night for the Labour party.

So true... let's all meet back here on Friday to look at their losses.

I agree about Sadiq Khan. I also agree with the comments he made about Corbyn over the whole anti-Semitism question. He shows up the old guard to be the bigots they are.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Nope, just party members.
It could well be a few of the tories that paid their Ł3 to vote Corbyn in?

lol, again the inference toward the Tory party, I think you need to remove some blinkers. Its clearly related to active labour party members.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

The left is no more or less anti-Semitic than any other section of society. Whilst I agree that such behaviour should be challenged wherever it rears its ugly head, why now... just days before the elections?

Because despite all their efforts, the right wing media are looking at being proved massively wrong on Thursday as Corbyn's popularity energises the Labour party for the first time in a generation, so this issue has been shoved in everyone's faces as a final last desperate attempt at smearing a party which has less racism all round than the Tories.

The left is not as you say any more anti-semitic just as the right are not racist,some on the left may be so and some on the right may be deemed racist but to term the whole of one section with inflammatory and hateful undertones as anti semitic or racist.anti Jewish or being red nazis has no place and should have no place in the UK in my view.

Where there are any they need to be found and removed, that has been the problem of all parties that they fail to check with the fullest scrutiny those they select as candidates to represent them.
There is the added problem too of the diverse cultures in the UK now too,more and more and rightly so, are being chosen from other cultures than just from the former UK culture to stand for election.

Differing cultures will view the World and other Countries of the World not the same at times as the UK generally would.
They will have different grievances with some areas of the World than we have.

That is why,if little else comes from this investigation,some newer guidelines on terminology that is not in any way acceptable should be made.
Obviously with new strict enforcement of same to those seeking election to any office in the UK.
Also yes, maybe the UK does need some educating as to what is right and wrong on the issue too as it seems even our leaders don't know enough now.

As to the elections this week,well it will be a wonder if many turn out since we could be forgiven for thinking there were none with the EU issue dominating all the news.

However yes,I expect Labour to do less than as well it might have this week.
As for Scotland,there will be no move back to Labour as long as the SNP are as strong as they are at present and with a new possible independence referendum on the horizon if we vote to leave the EU,the SNP will rule supreme.
Even Ruth Davidson,one of the best Conservative leaders in Scotland for ages in my view, has said,Labour has gone over to the SNP and it will take the SNP to start losing support for Labour to come back, but that they will in time.

These elections will I feel start the ball rolling more, even if Khan wins the London Mayor office,to find a way to remove Corbyn.
However many of his policies are right so if that comes about I hope many of his polices remain with any successor.

This anti-semitism issue is what needs sorting out and if bad losses this week make it all the more sure this is done right and thoroughly,then that will be a positive thing.

If however the losses are tolerable and not as bad as everyone who hates Labour is hoping to see,then I will applaud the electorate,the Lib Dems, supported all the cuts to council funding,so why should they fare any better now, the Conservative govt is still hammering councils and even has its own up in arms on several issues.

So UKIP are the likely real beneficiaries as to winning seats from both,we saw the chaos after one UKIP council was elected so fun and games this time round.

The whole state of UK politics is bad,from the electoral system we have right down to how parties conduct themselves,in and out of govt,all of them.
I guess bullying as is being investigated in the Conservative party takes a back seat now and is acceptable over any 'perceived' prejudice of anti-semitism, yet often bullying stems from or even leads to prejudice.

Lets see what happens on Thursday, those who hate Labour will no doubt ring their hands with glee if they do really badly and maybe set out more to label it an anti-semitic party.
Rubbishing the investigation into same while ignoring other faults of the other parties at the same time who will also have their minority problems too as to anti semitism, prejudice and racism.
That is why I think there should now be a full independent scrutiny of all parties and their representation,local or National.

I myself have not found the anti-semitism issue a major issue raised on doorsteps while leafleting and canvassing,however after the general election I take much of what is said there with a pinch of salt now.
So over to the voters now.

The present opinion polls have the Conservatives ahead of Labour by at least 5 or 6 points,so they should do really good in these local elections from the low base the Conservatives and Lib dems fell to last time in 2012.
Wales will I feel see a likely UKIP surge with Labour remaining the largest party however there.

If Labour were not to be the largest party and failed to be able to lead as to governing the assembly in Wales, that will certainly be the time for Corbyn to really assess his position.
There is one way for him not to be elected again and that is if he did not stand for leader again and stood down.
I am a great believer in if someone cannot win voters round,then they need to recognise that and hand over to someone who can.

As to the anti-semitism row,Thursday will decide if the voters think Corbyn has done enough already as to dealing with it or if he has clouded the issue further rather than cleared most of the mist over it.

[Kizzy]

Seems my theory is echoed here,

'Norman G. Finkelstein, the American Jewish author of The Holocaust Industry whose family members were almost all murdered in the Nazi holocaust, also believes it’s time for the media smears on the Labour party to stop. Insisting that the comments made last week by former Mayor of London Ken Livingstone were not antisemitic, he says:

Livingstone maybe wasn’t precise enough, and lacked nuance… [But he] is more or less accurate about this – or, as accurate as might be expected from a politician speaking off the cuff.
He also speaks about the supposed ‘antisemitism crisis’ that the corporate media claims is engulfing the Labour party today:

It has nothing whatsoever to do with the factual situation; instead, a few suspect cases of antisemitism – some real, some contrived – are being exploited for an ulterior political motive… it’s transparently a smear campaign.'

http://www.thecanary.co/2016/05/03/j...mitism-smears/

[Kizzy]

'Accusations of anti-Semitism should never be used as cover for these atrocities, which at their core are based on racist and nationalistic ideologies about the place of Arabs and Palestinians in the HLIP.

At the heart of the anti-Semitism maelstrom engulfing the Labour party, with the enthusiastic participation of the mainstream media, is the fact that Jeremy Corbyn has always taken a strong and principled stance on the rights of Palestinians. It didn’t take long for accusations of anti-Semitism to emerge against him, and when they failed to stick supporters and allies were targeted instead.

In a speech to Friends of Palestine after becoming leader he made two promises. One was that Britain would join 136 other countries (70% of the UN) in recognising Palestine as a sovereign state. Another was that he would change official UK policy towards Israeli settlement in the West Bank, recognising them as illegal under international law.

http://www.thecanary.co/2016/05/03/b...-palestinians/