[Parmy]

thought it was obvious that the woman chose drink over her animals. nothing but weakness and selfishness on show, everyone likes to use mental issues as an excuse for her alcoholism when we all know it's the body that is dependent, not the mind.. like i said! to hell with the dogs, i'm pissed.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by parmnion

thought it was obvious that the woman chose drink over her animals. nothing but weakness and selfishness on show, everyone likes to use mental issues as an excuse for her alcoholism when we all know it's the body that is dependent, not the mind.. like i said! to hell with the dogs, i'm pissed.

Awesome, you have aptly demonstrated that you have precisely zero understanding of either alcoholism or mental health. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and so your posts can be comfortably ignored.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Awesome, you have aptly demonstrated that you have precisely zero understanding of either alcoholism or mental health. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and so your posts can be comfortably ignored.

Well by that token,the same could be said about your posts,everyone is entitalled to their opinions yours isn't any more valid than others on here,and don't presume 'WE' have no idea about alcoholism or mental health,I certainly do,you don't know anymore about this case than anyone else,some think she needs help,I think she needs a heffty sentence and a ban for ever keeping animals again,it doesn't take much to open a tin of food and feed an animal.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Well by that token,the same could be said about your posts,everyone is entitalled to their opinions yours isn't any more valid than others on here,and don't presume 'WE' have no idea about alcoholism or mental health,I certainly do,you don't know anymore about this case than anyone else,some think she needs help,I think she needs a heffty sentence and a ban for ever keeping animals again,it doesn't take much to open a tin of food and feed an animal.

Parmnion is not sharing an opinion about this case, but making a broad sweeping statement about alcoholism and mental health in general. Of course you are absolutely entitled to think that those opinions are valid - even if they do go against decades of studies into the causes of alcoholism - that's up to you.

I know that it's bull**** and I also am convinced that it's based on nothing more than his personal prejudice... so I (personally) am entirely comfortable in now disregarding his posts.

[bots]

I have seen alcoholism and depression up close. The lady in question while in a deep state of despair, jobless and about to lose her home, was still capable of feeding and looking after her 4 dogs. So, with my direct experience, I would suggest in this case, this lady was entirely responsible for her actions, which is what its all about when deciding if someone should serve a prison sentence or not.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I have seen alcoholism and depression up close. The lady in question while in a deep state of despair, jobless and about to lose her home, was still capable of feeding and looking after her 4 dogs. So, with my direct experience, I would suggest in this case, this lady was entirely responsible for her actions, which is what its all about when deciding if someone should serve a prison sentence or not.

So have I, as previously mentioned I watched it kill my mother. Yet even at her absolute worst, she treated her dog like a beloved child, cared for it immaculately. Cared for it and looked after it far better than she cared for herself, always.

So again, that's not the point.

Like I said earlier in the thread, these issues are not "one size fits all", in fact, every single case of depression / anxiety / addiction is different. That's why it's so hard to treat. Some people can take a pill and have it make a huge difference, others will be no better on the same pill, or worse. Some are unfixable.

You can not look at one example, or even a hundred examples, and say "well this case should be exactly the same".

It's not chickenpox.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

So have I, as previously mentioned I watched it kill my mother. Yet even at her absolute worst, she treated her dog like a beloved child, cared for it immaculately. Cared for it and looked after it far better than she cared for herself, always.

So again, that's not the point.

Like I said earlier in the thread, these issues are not "one size fits all", in fact, every single case of depression / anxiety / addiction is different. That's why it's so hard to treat. Some people can take a pill and have it make a huge difference, others will be no better on the same pill, or worse. Some are unfixable.

You can not look at one example, or even a hundred examples, and say "well this case should be exactly the same".

It's not chickenpox.

That's a really good post TS,I agree with it all.

More thinking as you do on this would help remove the stigma there still remains to be as to depression and other mental health issues.

We don't know if this woman had mental health issues or if it was plain cruelty but she was hardly even looking after herself.
Like you I just think there are other questions that remain in this case,a case like you I am still horrified at as to the suffering of the animals.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I have seen alcoholism and depression up close. The lady in question while in a deep state of despair, jobless and about to lose her home, was still capable of feeding and looking after her 4 dogs. So, with my direct experience, I would suggest in this case, this lady was entirely responsible for her actions, which is what its all about when deciding if someone should serve a prison sentence or not.

That's like saying "I have seen someone with cancer and having chemo but they were still capable of functioning to do the necessary tasks therefore, if she could do it, everyone with cancer and on chemo must be able to cope".

There are many different types of depression and depression can co-occur and confound other hidden mental conditions. Mix mental illness with alcohol, (which is often used to numb anxiety) and it often is a recipe to disaster.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Livia

Doesn't actually say anywhere that she was diagnosed with a medical illness, so that's an amazing diagnosis you've made there. It says she was "drinking heavily" (although it also said she couldn't afford cleaning material or pet food), that she was "depressed" ( following the loss of her mother (although it didn't say she suffers from depression). Despite the horror of the situation and the real possibility that the woman is just scum, some people knee-jerk to it not being their fault. I'm sure when she was sentenced her mental state would have been taken into account.

and your diagnosis that she wasn't mentally ill is a little baffling, especially you being a lawyer and all. You must be aware of what happened to the "Bradley Report" and surely you are aware of PRT reports on mental health within the prison system.

At least one quarter of women who end up in prison are later shown to be suffering from mental illness and most of those women are not properly diagnosed before a release appointment with a psychiatrist has been made. Its perfectly normal for post sentence assessments of mental health to be made on and after release and not before trial or during prison time.

The judicial system is hugely floored when it comes to mental health and I know this because (and I've mentioned this before) my father is a consultant psychiatrist who comes face to face with previously undiagnosed ex cons on a weekly basis.

[bots]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

and your diagnosis that she wasn't mentally ill is a little baffling, especially you being a lawyer and all. You must be aware of what happened to the "Bradley Report" and surely you are aware of PRT reports on mental health within the prison system.

At least one quarter of women who end up in prison are later shown to be suffering from mental illness and most of those women are not properly diagnosed before a release appointment with a psychiatrist has been made. Its perfectly normal for post sentence assessments of mental health to be made on and after release and not before trial or during prison time.

The judicial system is hugely floored when it comes to mental health and I know this because (and I've mentioned this before) my father is a consultant psychiatrist who comes face to face with previously undiagnosed ex cons on a weekly basis.

That's as maybe. There is a simple principle that is the center of the issue here. Was she responsible for her own actions, yes or no. If she was, then she deserved a prison sentence, if she was not, then she should have gone to a medical facility.

No-one that has contributed to this thread knows that. That is for the judge and the court to decide, and guess what, they did and she went to prison. While its good to have a balanced debate and care for those that are not mentally stable. It should be acknowledged that there are actually some bad people in the world that deserve all they get, and if that means a prison sentence, so be it.

[Kizzy]

A friend of mine who is a dog walker/rescue worker campaigned furiously for months on FB to get her shut down, and to stop donations of pet food to her as she was re- selling it!

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

A friend of mine who is a dog walker/rescue worker campaigned furiously for months on FB to get her shut down, and to stop donations of pet food to her as she was re- selling it!

Well that puts a whole new slant on things Kizzy,I am now convinced she was just a cruel ,heartless bastard,who could look after herself in so much she has her nails polished,her face full of food and booze,maybe she used the money she got for selling her donated dog food,pathetic piece of trash.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

thought it was obvious that the woman chose drink over her animals. nothing but weakness and selfishness on show, everyone likes to use mental issues as an excuse for her alcoholism when we all know it's the body that is dependent, not the mind.. like i said! to hell with the dogs, i'm pissed.

Oh dear, if you really do suffer from depression then some research into mental health would be really beneficial.

Your snobbery and superiority complex is extremely transparent. Let's not pretend this woman was treating herself like royalty whilst abandoning the animals. She too was living in filth and like an animal. No sane person does that.

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

That's as maybe. There is a simple principle that is the center of the issue here. Was she responsible for her own actions, yes or no. If she was, then she deserved a prison sentence, if she was not, then she should have gone to a medical facility.

No-one that has contributed to this thread knows that. That is for the judge and the court to decide, and guess what, they did and she went to prison. While its good to have a balanced debate and care for those that are not mentally stable. It should be acknowledged that there are actually some bad people in the world that deserve all they get, and if that means a prison sentence, so be it.

.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

That's as maybe. There is a simple principle that is the center of the issue here. Was she responsible for her own actions, yes or no. If she was, then she deserved a prison sentence, if she was not, then she should have gone to a medical facility.

No-one that has contributed to this thread knows that. That is for the judge and the court to decide, and guess what, they did and she went to prison. While its good to have a balanced debate and care for those that are not mentally stable. It should be acknowledged that there are actually some bad people in the world that deserve all they get, and if that means a prison sentence, so be it.

There are people in the world who are just bad / corrupt, certainly. The type of people who drink themselves into oblivion and live in filth, however, are mentally unwell. You could make the case that she may well be both, I suppose, but the argument that she is a psychologically normal person? It just falls flat. Psychologically normal people just don't live like that.

Also, just to add... this idea that things are "for the system to decide" and that their decisions are beyond scrutiny / untouchable / not up for debate? Nah. You'll never get me to agree to that, it's authoritarian nonsense. Not only are their decisions fair game for examination and debate... it is the duty of anyone who actually cares about justice to do so. Because whilst our justice system - in global comparison - is still a fairly good one... it is FAR from perfect. A long, long way.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

There are people in the world who are just bad / corrupt, certainly. The type of people who drink themselves into oblivion and live in filth, however, are mentally unwell. You could make the case that she may well be both, I suppose, but the argument that she is a psychologically normal person? It just falls flat. Psychologically normal people just don't live like that.

Also, just to add... this idea that things are "for the system to decide" and that their decisions are beyond scrutiny / untouchable / not up for debate? Nah. You'll never get me to agree to that, it's authoritarian nonsense. Not only are their decisions fair game for examination and debate... it is the duty of anyone who actually cares about justice to do so. Because whilst our justice system - in global comparison - is still a fairly good one... it is FAR from perfect. A long, long way.

Yes absolutely, in fact I'd go so far as to say that scrutiny of the justice system are vital and what made it what it is today and what will help it to evolve as we do

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

There are people in the world who are just bad / corrupt, certainly. The type of people who drink themselves into oblivion and live in filth, however, are mentally unwell. You could make the case that she may well be both, I suppose, but the argument that she is a psychologically normal person? It just falls flat. Psychologically normal people just don't live like that.

Also, just to add... this idea that things are "for the system to decide" and that their decisions are beyond scrutiny / untouchable / not up for debate? Nah. You'll never get me to agree to that, it's authoritarian nonsense. Not only are their decisions fair game for examination and debate... it is the duty of anyone who actually cares about justice to do so. Because whilst our justice system - in global comparison - is still a fairly good one... it is FAR from perfect. A long, long way.

You can say that again.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

[/B]


You can say that again.

Because whilst our justice system - in global comparison - is still a fairly good one... it is FAR from perfect. A long, long way.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Because whilst our justice system - in global comparison - is still a fairly good one... it is FAR from perfect. A long, long way.

You naughty boy Marsh

[DemolitionRed]

Look at the picture and notice amongst the filth are dozens upon dozens of DVD’s The dog food packets don’t contain dog food, they contain more DVD’s.
A high percentage of animal hoarders also hoard other things and depending on how severe the OCD or OCPD is, they often keep all their hoards in a disorganised mess which eventually becomes disorganized filth. People with OCD have addictive personalities and often have alcohol or drug abuse problems.
What starts off as good intensions very often end up in serious neglect and even death of the animals.

Its distressing to see those pictures. The one thing that makes me extremely angry is animal cruelty, in fact the only time I’ve been arrested was for attacking a woman who was being cruel to a horse. Sometimes animals need a voice but those poor animals in this case didn’t have that voice before many of them had suffered from excruciating conditions and even death.

Animal hoarding is a real problem in this country. The RSPCA are always removing large stocks of animals from over crowded homes. The trouble is, this doesn’t address the hoarders condition and no sooner have the animals been removed than they are collecting again. People should always be suspicious if they know someone who’s menagerie of animals is getting bigger and bigger because there’s a good chance they are sinking into mental illness and for the animals sake, that mental illness needs to be addressed sooner than later.

[Marsh.]

The dog food packets don’t contain dog food, they contain more DVD’s.

This tickled me so much.

[Marsh.]

I only just noticed the "Tango" shower gel.

[bots]

Its amazing how many in this thread think they are better judges of character from a few lines in a crappy tabloid that most have deemed not be be given the title of a newspaper in other threads - than the judge that had all the relevant information in front of him ... you must be very clever

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Parmnion is not sharing an opinion about this case, but making a broad sweeping statement about alcoholism and mental health in general. Of course you are absolutely entitled to think that those opinions are valid - even if they do go against decades of studies into the causes of alcoholism - that's up to you.

I know that it's bull**** and I also am convinced that it's based on nothing more than his personal prejudice... so I (personally) am entirely comfortable in now disregarding his posts.

good job i aint got depression anymore.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Its amazing how many in this thread think they are better judges of character from a few lines in a crappy tabloid that most have deemed not be be given the title of a newspaper in other threads - than the judge that had all the relevant information in front of him ... you must be very clever

Yawn. This again?