[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I am not a supporter of Nigel Farage but I do admire and respect enormously his never changing position as to his view of the EU and leaving the EU.
So I am glad he is being given this high profile lead as to representing the no side, since really without Nigel Farage, there would never have likely been a EU referendum at all.

At least his sincerity and commitment to the issue cannot be justifiably questioned unlike the turncoats of the likes of Boris Johnson who are using the referendum to achieve further ambitions,not really about the EU at all.

Equally Gove is a good choice for the other one.
My guess is the PM will slay all that come against him on the EU anyway and hopefully the voters will see that the PM,on this issue, is guiding them on the right and better path to stay on.

You recently responded to me saying... I think for myself and make my own mind up on matters. This has to be admired 100%. But also on the other side of the EU argument with you being pro remain it does fly against your own quotes/personal beliefs. Remaining in the EU will mean you will not be allowed to make your own mind up, it will be decided for you from afar by someone un elected and this is what you ( by voting to remain ) is giving up. I hope that you realize this and acknowledge what you are willing to give up to remain within the EU.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

You recently responded to me saying... I think for myself and make my own mind up on matters. This has to be admired 100%. But also on the other side of the EU argument with you being pro remain it does fly against your own quotes/personal beliefs. Remaining in the EU will mean you will not be allowed to make your own mind up, it will be decided for you from afar by someone un elected and this is what you ( by voting to remain ) is giving up. I hope that you realize this and acknowledge what you are willing to give up to remain within the EU.

I don't see it that way, voters elected govts of both main parties who after being elected signed up to all we have as to the EU and therefore helped form it as it is.

So I see that as the voters sanctioning same by repeatedly electing govts that did so.

Now however no further transfer of powers can take place,or even any new treaty signed without the UK electorate being asked in a referendum.

So I do not feel I am losing anything however I do feel as a nation both as to status and economically, the UK could lose a lot by leaving.
If I knew for sure,nothing would be lost and I was hearing from the EU that they will look favourably on the UK after it leaves.
Also if I could hear any non EU Nations saying they will vastly increases their trade with the UK if it leaves the EU.
Then I would feel the out side had a credible case.

Sadly as I say almost every day off here,I hear nothing at all as to that or that it is even likely.

I am not looking at this for just myself, I am thinking of the whole economic picture for the UK, short term and long term, I am looking at my Nephews and Nieces and thinking of their futures.

Lots of issues and elements involved in making my mind up,and although I do make my own mind up, it is when I have the whole picture, and have also considered everyone else I share the UK with too overall,rather than just myself.

This will possibly be dismissed as rubbish by you again however this is my view and in part how I came to support staying in,so because I followed my own thinking as to research and others needs as well as the benefits and problems of the EU too, I am happy with my choice.

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I don't see it that way, voters elected govts of both main parties who after being elected signed up to all we have as to the EU and therefore helped form it as it is.

So I see that as the voters sanctioning same by repeatedly electing govts that did so.

Now however no further transfer of powers can take place,or even any new treaty signed without the UK electorate being asked in a referendum.

So I do not feel I am losing anything however I do feel as a nation both as to status and economically, the UK could lose a lot by leaving.
If I knew for sure,nothing would be lost and I was hearing from the EU that they will look favourably on the UK after it leaves.
Also if I could hear any non EU Nations saying they will vastly increases their trade with the UK if it leaves the EU.
Then I would feel the out side had a credible case.

Sadly as I say almost every day off here,I hear nothing at all as to that or that it is even likely.

I am not looking at this for just myself, I am thinking of the whole economic picture for the UK, short term and long term, I am looking at my Nephews and Nieces and thinking of their futures.

Lots of issues and elements involved in making my mind up,and although I do make my own mind up, it is when I have the whole picture, and have also considered everyone else I share the UK with too overall,rather than just myself.

So you are happy to hand over any power to un elected people in another country to whom you do not know and to let them make decisions for you? This is what i mean... You believe in making up your own mind on issues yet are so blinkered right now that you cannot see that you will have far less of an opinion if any at all by remaining in the failed EU.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

So you are happy to hand over any power to un elected people in another country to whom you do not know and to let them make decisions for you? This is what i mean... You believe in making up your own mind on issues yet are so blinkered right now that you cannot see that you will have far less of an opinion if any at all by remaining in the failed EU.

I am very happy with the deal, trade and otherwise the UK now has with the EU yes.

No more powers can be transferred without the UK electorates permission in a referendum.
We never need to join the euro.
We do not have to be part of any further political integration with the EU after the PMs deal this year.

I have made my own mind up on that definitely and I have further made my own mind up on that I doubt very much that the UK could get anything like the deal it has with the EU now, even just on trade, that is already has.

I also think,not just as to myself but that the UK the Nation I was born in and live in, will also have little more than just an opinion around the world rather than influence, overall, 'if' it leaves the EU.

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I am very happy with the deal, trade and otherwise the UK now has with the EU yes.

No more powers can be transferred without the UK electorates permission in a referendum.
We never need to join the euro.
We do not have to be part of any further political integration with the EU after the PMs deal this year.

I have made my own mind up on that definitely and I have further made my own mind up on that I doubt very much that the UK could get anything like the deal it has with the EU now, even just on trade, that is already has.

I also think,not just as to myself but that the UK the Nation I was born in and live in, will also have little more than just an opinion around the world rather than influence, overall, 'if' it leaves the EU.

The EU has the lowest growth in the world and you are happy with that?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

The EU has the lowest growth in the world and you are happy with that?

Things fluctuate, actually the eurozone is growing again now anyway.
It has been strong before, it has had problems and is growing again now, with countries lining up to get trading deals with it.

Can you tell me exactly what growth the UK will have if it leaves the EU, will it be better, the same or worse.

Ian Duncan Smith stated there would be a 2 year downturn for the UK with lower growth than had we stayed in, for at least 2 years.

Can you state that we would,how we would, and how long afterwards it would take, to make that lost ground up once alone, after that 2 years and just get back to even where we are now.

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Things fluctuate, actually the eurozone is growing again now anyway.
It has been strong before, it has had problems and is growing again now, with countries lining up to get trading deals with it.

Can you tell me exactly what growth the UK will have if it leaves the EU, will it be better, the same or worse.

Ian Duncan Smith stated there would be a 2 year downturn for the UK with lower growth than had we stayed in, for at least 2 years.

Can you state that we would,how we would, and how long afterwards it would take, to make that lost ground up once alone, after that 2 years and just get back to even where we are now.

I will be happy to answer all of your questions when you actually answer any one of mine which you have failed to do and continue to avoid. Why is anyone's guess.

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I don't see it that way, voters elected govts of both main parties who after being elected signed up to all we have as to the EU and therefore helped form it as it is.

So I see that as the voters sanctioning same by repeatedly electing govts that did so.

Now however no further transfer of powers can take place,or even any new treaty signed without the UK electorate being asked in a referendum.

So I do not feel I am losing anything however I do feel as a nation both as to status and economically, the UK could lose a lot by leaving.
If I knew for sure,nothing would be lost and I was hearing from the EU that they will look favourably on the UK after it leaves.
Also if I could hear any non EU Nations saying they will vastly increases their trade with the UK if it leaves the EU.
Then I would feel the out side had a credible case.

Sadly as I say almost every day off here,I hear nothing at all as to that or that it is even likely.

I am not looking at this for just myself, I am thinking of the whole economic picture for the UK, short term and long term, I am looking at my Nephews and Nieces and thinking of their futures.

Lots of issues and elements involved in making my mind up,and although I do make my own mind up, it is when I have the whole picture, and have also considered everyone else I share the UK with too overall,rather than just myself.

This will possibly be dismissed as rubbish by you again however this is my view and in part how I came to support staying in,so because I followed my own thinking as to research and others needs as well as the benefits and problems of the EU too, I am happy with my choice.

Your own thinking is exactly my point. You won't have it.

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I don't see it that way, voters elected govts of both main parties who after being elected signed up to all we have as to the EU and therefore helped form it as it is.

So I see that as the voters sanctioning same by repeatedly electing govts that did so.

Now however no further transfer of powers can take place,or even any new treaty signed without the UK electorate being asked in a referendum.

So I do not feel I am losing anything however I do feel as a nation both as to status and economically, the UK could lose a lot by leaving.
If I knew for sure,nothing would be lost and I was hearing from the EU that they will look favourably on the UK after it leaves.
Also if I could hear any non EU Nations saying they will vastly increases their trade with the UK if it leaves the EU.
Then I would feel the out side had a credible case.

Sadly as I say almost every day off here,I hear nothing at all as to that or that it is even likely.

I am not looking at this for just myself, I am thinking of the whole economic picture for the UK, short term and long term, I am looking at my Nephews and Nieces and thinking of their futures.

Lots of issues and elements involved in making my mind up,and although I do make my own mind up, it is when I have the whole picture, and have also considered everyone else I share the UK with too overall,rather than just myself.

This will possibly be dismissed as rubbish by you again however this is my view and in part how I came to support staying in,so because I followed my own thinking as to research and others needs as well as the benefits and problems of the EU too, I am happy with my choice.

I am 1000% certain that if in the morning Boris Johnson was made PM you would be in here and have a massive issue with it. Yet you have no issue with un elected people in another country running the UK. Explain? Please explain why you are in favor of strangers running the UK from over seas over UK residents?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

I am 1000% certain that if in the morning Boris Johnson was made PM you would be in here and have a massive issue with it. Yet you have no issue with un elected people in another country running the UK. Explain? Please explain why you are in favor of strangers running the UK from over seas over UK residents?

What??

If the UK votes to leave and by some backwards miracle the Conservative party elects Boris as leader and PM then I equally have to accept that.
Only in a general election can I express my dissatisfaction and vote for another party but yes I would be moaning that he was PM as I do not feel he deserves to be in any way.

Others however,wouldn't agree and would welcome that taking place.

I don't see anyone overseas running the UK,I see 28 Nations making decisions,with the UK being one of them, and it likely getting harder for the unelected element to influence more as to EU matters now.

I simply do not myself see the negatives of the EU as you do,just as you cannot see the positives to it either.
Although at least I can and do accept there are both positives and negatives as to its make up.

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

What??

If the UK votes to leave and by some backwards miracle the Conservative party elects Boris as leader and PM then I equally have to accept that.
Only in a general election can I express my dissatisfaction and vote for another party but yes I would be moaning that he was PM as I do not feel he deserves to be in any way.

Others however,wouldn't agree and would welcome that taking place.

I don't see anyone overseas running the UK,I see 28 Nations making decisions,with the UK being one of them, and it likely getting harder for the unelected element to influence more as to EU matters now.

I simply do not myself see the negatives of the EU as you do,just as you cannot see the positives to it either.
Although at least I can and do accept there are both positives and negatives as to its make up.

As a member of the EU you will not have that choice. I rest my case.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

As a member of the EU you will not have that choice. I rest my case.

You are joking, you are trying to say we will not have general elections in the UK and not be able to vote for other Parties,if we stay in now.
Now I really think you are wasting my time.

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

You are joking, you are trying to say we will not have general elections in the UK and not be able to vote for other Parties,if we stay in now.
Now I really think you are wasting my time.

No... You will NOT have the choice of who runs the EU.