[Livia]

Women generally are more vulnerable to attack than men, the statistics show that. And while men are robbed and raped, it's usually women and in a lot of cases, had the woman taken more care of her own personal safety, ie, not been drunk and incapable, it might have turned out differently. Rape is a dreadful, disgusting crime and there are some horrible people in the world... so look after yourself and if you MUST get paralytic, make sure you're with some trustworthy mates.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Women generally are more vulnerable to attack than men, the statistics show that. And while men are robbed and raped, it's usually women and in a lot of cases, had the woman taken more care of her own personal safety, ie, not been drunk and incapable, it might have turned out differently. Rape is a dreadful, disgusting crime and there are some horrible people in the world... so look after yourself and if you MUST get paralytic, make sure you're with some trustworthy mates.

What do you suggest? Chaperones.. 2 drink maximum.. anti spiking spray ( not sure if exists) .. chastity belts..tasers..burqas?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

What do you suggest? Chaperones.. 2 drink maximum.. anti spiking spray ( not sure if exists) .. chastity belts..tasers..burqas?

I'd suggest not walking around alone at night especially when drunk - however, that's good advice for anyone, especially young / Uni age people. Lone young men are actually more likely to be "opportunity" mugged for things like wallets and smartphones than girls. There are plenty of rough guys around, not actually specifically out to rob people, who will chance their luck at grabbing an iPhone from a lone teenage lad but would find it unthinkable to attack a female.

I think there's a tendency to have the snap judgement of "oh no victim blaming!" when suggesting that people can do things to minimise risk... But it's really not that at all. It's not about saying it's anyone's fault, or that any attacker isn't abhorrent scum... It's just about accepting that these people DO exist, there ARE risks on a night out, and there simply always will be.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'd suggest not walking around alone at night especially when drunk - however, that's good advice for anyone, especially young / Uni age people. Lone young men are actually more likely to be "opportunity" mugged for things like wallets and smartphones than girls. There are plenty of rough guys around, not actually specifically out to rob people, who will chance their luck at grabbing an iPhone from a lone teenage lad but would find it unthinkable to attack a female.

I think there's a tendency to have the snap judgement of "oh no victim blaming!" when suggesting that people can do things to minimise risk... But it's really not that at all. It's not about saying it's anyone's fault, or that any attacker isn't abhorrent scum... It's just about accepting that these people DO exist, there ARE risks on a night out, and there simply always will be.

There appears to be the presumption that all victims are wandering around waiting to be raped...
Heard of a roofie?
Read all the leading questions asked of the victim in her letter? No let's not make snap judgements.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

There appears to be the presumption that all victims are wandering around waiting to be raped...
Heard of a roofie?
Read all the leading questions asked of the victim in her letter? No let's not make snap judgements.

No one is saying it would never happen, it's not about making snap judgements either, it's not about judgement at all... It's about taking precautions to reduce risk. Same as safety features in cars... Power steering, ABS, etc... They reduce the risk of anything bad happening, but bad things will still happen despite that. That doesn't mean you should just remove all of those safety features.

E.g. With being drugged - it's much less likely to end badly if people stay with friends and look out for each other. Not impossible, people lose track of each other, people are attacked by those who were the very ones they were trusting, etc, but it still makes it less likely and so is still good advice. No blaming, no judgement, just an effort for everyone to be safer.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

No one is saying it would never happen, it's not about making snap judgements either, it's not about judgement at all... It's about taking precautions to reduce risk. Same as safety features in cars... Power steering, ABS, etc... They reduce the risk of anything bad happening, but bad things will still happen despite that. That doesn't mean you should just remove all of those safety features.

E.g. With being drugged - it's much less likely to end badly if people stay with friends and look out for each other. Not impossible, people lose track of each other, people are attacked by those who were the very ones they were trusting, etc, but it still makes it less likely and so is still good advice. No blaming, no judgement, just an effort for everyone to be safer.

Right so using your car analogy if you are driving a car without ABS or power steering and someone deliberately drives their car repeatedly into your cars back end is it your fault?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Right so using your car analogy if you are driving a car without ABS or power steering and someone deliberately drives their car repeatedly into your cars back end is it your fault?

No but I've repeatedly and specifically said it's not about fault or blame, it's about minimising risk. In a perfect world there wouldn't be scumbags out to attack or take advantage of vulnerable people. Sadly, as you know, we don't live in a perfect world... We live in a ****ty one where these people exist, and are always going to exist. When they prey on someone, they are the only person at fault. They are the only person to blame. But what does that really matter to the victim when it's already happened?

One of the main reasons for having safety features on a car is because there are idiots on the road, and it doesn't matter how safe YOU are, if YOU do everything right... Someone else's actions can end in disaster, through no fault of your own.

You are less likely to be sexually assaulted if you go out in a group, and everyone watches out for each other and makes sure no one gets left behind. Can it still happen? Yes. But it's far less likely. Is it right or fair that people have to stick together in groups to be safe? Nope! It's crappy. To reiterate: the world is ****.