[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

When does "wary" become "shoot him lots just incase"? The police are supposed to stay cool, rational and professional in these situations... That is what they are paid for and - importantly - that is what they signed up to be. We're not talking about a civilian protecting himself or his family... Being a police officer is a job that has certain inherent risks when it comes to doing it properly and those risk are accepted by implication when someone chooses the job. "Yeah I signed up but I'm going to be on the super-safe side and shoot first ask questions later just incase" is not a valid defense here.

Neither is "but he was a bad guy anyway", to be clear. Laying down justice is, as you are so fond of saying, up to a court of law. No one should be advocating judge dredd style trigger happy cops where anything goes so long as the victims are "baddies", it is a terrible idea.

Not to mention, no matter what this guy may have done, there was a 4 year old child in the car as well, totally innocent of anything

[Crimson Dynamo]

The Dallas incident will just make Law Enforcement Officers more cautious

I feel sorry for all the Police and their families

[Northern Monkey]

It's unfortunately a vicious circle of death and i can't see how it can end.The police are scared of the black guys and the black guys are scared of the police and everyone's got guns at the ready.Scary stuff.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

The Dallas incident will just make Law Enforcement Officers more cautious

I feel sorry for all the Police and their families

Of course it will. NM is right when he says it's mainly about fear. These kids join the police and straight away are bombarded with "horror stories" that make them fear for their lives and that sinks in so they start seeing any black face as having the potential to be their own horror story. Make no mistake though; the fact that it is fear based does NOT mean it isn't racism!

So they treat people like a lethal threat from the word go and end up twitchy, shooting first, further alienating groups of people, which leads to more violence, which is used to confirm the horror stories ("see? Didn't I warn you about them?") and so next time, the Cop has even more prejudice and is even more likely to shoot first and fast.

It is a cycle of violence but the professionals HAVE TO be the ones to put an end to it. They can be better trained, they can be better picked in the first place, they can be better prepared to resolve situations without violence whenever possible. It HAS to lie with the cops. You can't try to make the responsibility to end the cycle lie with random civilians who are NOT hired or trained or prepared, it's madness.

[Jack_]

I don't know why people entertain LT's BS when he doesn't believe a word he's saying

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Of course it will. NM is right when he says it's mainly about fear. These kids join the police and straight away are bombarded with "horror stories" that make them fear for their lives and that sinks in so they start seeing any black face as having the potential to be their own horror story. Make no mistake though; the fact that it is fear based does NOT mean it isn't racism!

So they treat people like a lethal threat from the word go and end up twitchy, shooting first, further alienating groups of people, which leads to more violence, which is used to confirm the horror stories ("see? Didn't I warn you about them?") and so next time, the Cop has even more prejudice and is even more likely to shoot first and fast.

It is a cycle of violence but the professionals HAVE TO be the ones to put an end to it. They can be better trained, they can be better picked in the first place, they can be better prepared to resolve situations without violence whenever possible. It HAS to lie with the cops. You can't try to make the responsibility to end the cycle lie with random civilians who are NOT hired or trained or prepared, it's madness.

True.I don't think cops are literally going out saying 'lets go shoot some black guys' but they are scared and twitchy af when they do pullover or stop a black guy.As for who is to blame for this cycle well black communities have been shooting the crap out of each other for decades and the police have been racist in the past so who knows but it needs to be calmed down by the proffessionals.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I don't know why people entertain LT's BS when he doesn't believe a word he's saying

Incorrect

Thankfully I can watch a video and realise that it is one view and it may be fictional

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Incorrect

Thankfully I can watch a video and realise that it is one view and it may be fictional

Whatever you say LT

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

This poor sista was just talking why the swat team? :rollseyes: https://twitter.com/thereaibanksy/st...89375706099713

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Ithinkiloveyoutoo

This poor sista was just talking why the swat team? :rollseyes: https://twitter.com/thereaibanksy/st...89375706099713

twitter

brilliant

[Tom4784]

The only sources that are applicable are sources that support LT's argument.

[Ninastar]

bringing this from the other thread because the other one is about the police officers

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The difference is that they were more likely to be lawful shootings, given how the phrase 'Black Lives Matter' causes certain white people to froth at the mouth in rage how do you think they'd react if a white person was executed by the police in a similar fashion to these killings? There'd be riots.

If what happened to Tamir Rice happened to a white child there'd be calls for blood.

There's an imbalance here, I'm not against lawful killings if there's no other way but considering it feels like there's a new incident like this happening every other week it feels foolish to deny there's a problem. Nothing will change if we bury our heads in the sand but if the american people take a stand against Police Brutality then it benefits everyone.

"The difference is that they were more likely to be lawful shootings,"

I don't believe that for a second. To assume that a white officer would just kill someone because they are black is absolutely ridiculous. If you look at all those killed by the police this year, more white people have been killed than black/mexican people combined. Just because we don't have recordings of white people being shot 'for no reason' doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

"given how the phrase 'Black Lives Matter' causes certain white people to froth at the mouth in rage how do you think they'd react if a white person was executed by the police in a similar fashion to these killings? There'd be riots. "

I don't think there would be. Social media tends to be quite biased in the favour of minorities (I'm not saying thats a bad thing) and I don't think that there'd be anywhere near as bad a reaction if a white person was killed 'for no reason'

"If what happened to Tamir Rice happened to a white child there'd be calls for blood. "

I'm not going to talk about this because it opens a new argument which I will probably upset people with.

"There's an imbalance here, I'm not against lawful killings if there's no other way but considering it feels like there's a new incident like this happening every other week it feels foolish to deny there's a problem."

I can understand why you feel this way, I really do. I just don't think this is being reported fairly and whilst I do feel bad for the families, I think that most of the people who have been killed by police could have had it prevented if they had just listened.

I think this woman gets the point across better than me. I know its about Mike Brown but the point still stands (towards the end more so)

Youtube video

"Nothing will change if we bury our heads in the sand but if the american people take a stand against Police Brutality then it benefits everyone."

Again I can totally see why you'd think this, but again I don't think 'police brutality' is any where near as bad as the media makes it out to be. I'm going to pinch Maru's post because she summed it up perfectly and we all know I'm not good with words.

"National media is basically tabloids disguised as real news on TV 24/7. It is 95% entertainment, 4.9% headlines, .1% facts. 100% of the coverage is Donald Trump, BLM, evil law enforcement, dead people, mass shootings and constant coverage of celebrity deaths (like Anna Nicole Smith, who cares ). Donald Trump gets more coverage than the superbowl. A racist self-absorbed prick's opinion is more important than delivering the facts around majorly important issues. Ok.

If you listened to national media all day you would think our society has gone insane, but it's a major distortion of life here that people eat it up because it adds color and meaning to their otherwise mundane lives. Disenfranchised people want other people to blame. Businesses want other parties to be responsible for their failures. The public hear that actual effort won't fix the issues, but getting attention and promoting violence will (by suggesting people will arm themselves or go to the streets)."

This makes me sound like an awful, naive, uneducated person but I'm not, lol. Being a minority myself, I'd hate to see another minority being treated unfairly because of who they are. I just don't think that in most cases the media is talking about is actually what the media tells us.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The only sources that are applicable are sources that support LT's argument.

I mean, videos themselves are best proof.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

bringing this from the other thread because the other one is about the police officers




"The difference is that they were more likely to be lawful shootings,"

I don't believe that for a second. To assume that a white officer would just kill someone because they are black is absolutely ridiculous. If you look at all those killed by the police this year, more white people have been killed than black/mexican people combined. Just because we don't have recordings of white people being shot 'for no reason' doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

"given how the phrase 'Black Lives Matter' causes certain white people to froth at the mouth in rage how do you think they'd react if a white person was executed by the police in a similar fashion to these killings? There'd be riots. "

I don't think there would be. Social media tends to be quite biased in the favour of minorities (I'm not saying thats a bad thing) and I don't think that there'd be anywhere near as bad a reaction if a white person was killed 'for no reason'

"If what happened to Tamir Rice happened to a white child there'd be calls for blood. "

I'm not going to talk about this because it opens a new argument which I will probably upset people with.

"There's an imbalance here, I'm not against lawful killings if there's no other way but considering it feels like there's a new incident like this happening every other week it feels foolish to deny there's a problem."

I can understand why you feel this way, I really do. I just don't think this is being reported fairly and whilst I do feel bad for the families, I think that most of the people who have been killed by police could have had it prevented if they had just listened.

I think this woman gets the point across better than me. I know its about Mike Brown but the point still stands (towards the end more so)

Youtube video

"Nothing will change if we bury our heads in the sand but if the american people take a stand against Police Brutality then it benefits everyone."

Again I can totally see why you'd think this, but again I don't think 'police brutality' is any where near as bad as the media makes it out to be. I'm going to pinch Maru's post because she summed it up perfectly and we all know I'm not good with words.

"National media is basically tabloids disguised as real news on TV 24/7. It is 95% entertainment, 4.9% headlines, .1% facts. 100% of the coverage is Donald Trump, BLM, evil law enforcement, dead people, mass shootings and constant coverage of celebrity deaths (like Anna Nicole Smith, who cares ). Donald Trump gets more coverage than the superbowl. A racist self-absorbed prick's opinion is more important than delivering the facts around majorly important issues. Ok.

If you listened to national media all day you would think our society has gone insane, but it's a major distortion of life here that people eat it up because it adds color and meaning to their otherwise mundane lives. Disenfranchised people want other people to blame. Businesses want other parties to be responsible for their failures. The public hear that actual effort won't fix the issues, but getting attention and promoting violence will (by suggesting people will arm themselves or go to the streets)."

This makes me sound like an awful, naive, uneducated person but I'm not, lol. Being a minority myself, I'd hate to see another minority being treated unfairly because of who they are. I just don't think that in most cases the media is talking about is actually what the media tells us.

I don't believe that for a second. To assume that a white officer would just kill someone because they are black is absolutely ridiculous. If you look at all those killed by the police this year, more white people have been killed than black/mexican people combined. Just because we don't have recordings of white people being shot 'for no reason' doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

It would be ridiculous if you re not part of a certain demographic or haven't experienced it yourself. But having said that it's not that ridiculous because this has been going on for long time, people are only talking about it more now thanks t the help of social media. When you have tapes like MARK FURHMAN where he admits to targeting black people and planting evidence against them, it's not a far fetched concept that this sort of thing goes on.
Those numbers are debatable, there's different numbers everywhere. But the thing is if continuous unlawful killings happened to whites you can bet your ass the families wouldn't stay quiet, there would be world wide support and generally when things happen to white people new laws or acts are written in. This is why white people favor cops rather than blacks, they mostly have to deal with the police if they deserve it.

''I don't think there would be. Social media tends to be quite biased in the favour of minorities (I'm not saying thats a bad thing) and I don't think that there'd be anywhere near as bad a reaction if a white person was killed 'for no reason' ''

White people have a voice on twitter too. If it happened to them unlawfully on a regular basis we would hear about, simple.

'' I do feel bad for the families, I think that most of the people who have been killed by police could have had it prevented if they had just listened. ''

Eric Garner had his hands up, Alton Sterlin was pinned down, Philando Castille was reaching for his ID, Rodney king was beaten repeatedly by 4 cops as he lay on the ground...

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The only sources that are applicable are sources that support LT's argument.

excuse me if I discount social media from proper evidence

I tend to be wary of evidence that starts "just cops making up for being bullied as kids"

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Oh regarding Mike Brown stealing, this lady needs to be informed and not only go with what the media says. There is a video of Mike Brown paying.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Ithinkiloveyoutoo

It would be ridiculous if you re not part of a certain demographic or haven't experienced it yourself. But having said that it's not that ridiculous because this has been going on for long time, people are only talking about it more now thanks t the help of social media. When you have tapes like MARK FURHMAN where he admits to targeting black people and planting evidence against them, it's not a far fetched concept that this sort of thing goes on.
Those numbers are debatable, there's different numbers everywhere. But the thing is if continuous unlawful killings happened to whites you can bet your ass the families wouldn't stay quiet, there would be world wide support and generally when things happen to white people new laws or acts are written in. This is why white people favor cops rather than blacks, they mostly have to deal with the police if they deserve it.

''I don't think there would be. Social media tends to be quite biased in the favour of minorities (I'm not saying thats a bad thing) and I don't think that there'd be anywhere near as bad a reaction if a white person was killed 'for no reason' ''

White people have a voice on twitter too. If it happened to them unlawfully on a regular basis we would hear about, simple.

'' I do feel bad for the families, I think that most of the people who have been killed by police could have had it prevented if they had just listened. ''

Eric Garner had his hands up, Alton Sterlin was pinned down, Philando Castille was reaching for his ID, Rodney king was beaten repeatedly by 4 cops as he lay on the ground...

just taking one item here:

Philando Castille was reaching for his ID

can you tell me and the thread

1. apart from his girlfriend saying so how you know this is true?
2. how you know he had id in his pocket?
3. how you know he did not have a gun in his pocket and was going for that?


I am making no call either way in this case as I have no clue what went on but I would welcome your reply as you seem to have more information than what I have seen

[Crimson Dynamo]

A suburban Minnesota police officer who shot and killed a black motorist was reacting to the man's gun, not his race, the officer's attorney said Saturday


Philando Castile failed to comply with a "do not move" order, which lead to Yanez opening fire.

In addition, police scanner audio appears to indicate Yanez telling Dispatch he was pulling the car over because Castile fit the description of a wanted suspect in a armed robbery that took place a few days prior. The officer briefly describes Castille before exiting his cruiser.

Kelly told Fox News that if Yanez pulled Castille over that day because he believed him to fit the description of a wanted armed robbery suspect, the officer was doing "good police work and approved police work." He called this a "standard investigatory stop."

Castile's girlfriend Diamond Reynolds was in the car and streamed the immediate aftermath of the shooting live on Facebook. She has said Yanez shot Castile several times after he told the officer he had a gun and a permit for it and then reached for his wallet.

Yanez "was reacting to the actions of the driver," Kelly said. "This had nothing to do with race. This had everything to do with the presence of a gun."

A clearly distraught person who appears to be a police officer stands at the car's window, tells her to keep her hands up and says: "I told him not to reach for it. I told him to get his hand out."

Court records show the traffic stop was at least the 52nd time Castile, a 32-year-old school cafeteria supervisor, had been pulled over in the Minneapolis-St. Paul area since 2002.


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/07/10...wyer-says.html

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I don't know why people entertain LT's BS when he doesn't believe a word he's saying

Breath taking stance from a "liberal"

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Breath taking stance from a "liberal"

Elaborate

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Elaborate

liberal
ˈlɪb(ə)r(ə)l/
adjective
1.
willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas.


Dismissing someone's views as trolling is as far from liberal as you can get

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Cherie

liberal
ˈlɪb(ə)r(ə)l/
adjective
1.
willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas.


Dismissing someone's views as trolling is as far from liberal as you can get

Not exactly, do I accept that there are people who don't believe police brutality and institutionalised racism in the US is a problem? Obviously. But LeatherTrumpet isn't one of them, nor does he really believe Kate McCann is some wonderful woman either

He's entitled to post what he wants, that is being a liberal. And I'm entitled to say I believe he's being disingenuous, that's also liberal

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

bringing this from the other thread because the other one is about the police officers




"The difference is that they were more likely to be lawful shootings,"

I don't believe that for a second. To assume that a white officer would just kill someone because they are black is absolutely ridiculous. If you look at all those killed by the police this year, more white people have been killed than black/mexican people combined. Just because we don't have recordings of white people being shot 'for no reason' doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

"given how the phrase 'Black Lives Matter' causes certain white people to froth at the mouth in rage how do you think they'd react if a white person was executed by the police in a similar fashion to these killings? There'd be riots. "

I don't think there would be. Social media tends to be quite biased in the favour of minorities (I'm not saying thats a bad thing) and I don't think that there'd be anywhere near as bad a reaction if a white person was killed 'for no reason'

"If what happened to Tamir Rice happened to a white child there'd be calls for blood. "

I'm not going to talk about this because it opens a new argument which I will probably upset people with.

"There's an imbalance here, I'm not against lawful killings if there's no other way but considering it feels like there's a new incident like this happening every other week it feels foolish to deny there's a problem."

I can understand why you feel this way, I really do. I just don't think this is being reported fairly and whilst I do feel bad for the families, I think that most of the people who have been killed by police could have had it prevented if they had just listened.

I think this woman gets the point across better than me. I know its about Mike Brown but the point still stands (towards the end more so)

Youtube video

"Nothing will change if we bury our heads in the sand but if the american people take a stand against Police Brutality then it benefits everyone."

Again I can totally see why you'd think this, but again I don't think 'police brutality' is any where near as bad as the media makes it out to be. I'm going to pinch Maru's post because she summed it up perfectly and we all know I'm not good with words.

"National media is basically tabloids disguised as real news on TV 24/7. It is 95% entertainment, 4.9% headlines, .1% facts. 100% of the coverage is Donald Trump, BLM, evil law enforcement, dead people, mass shootings and constant coverage of celebrity deaths (like Anna Nicole Smith, who cares ). Donald Trump gets more coverage than the superbowl. A racist self-absorbed prick's opinion is more important than delivering the facts around majorly important issues. Ok.

If you listened to national media all day you would think our society has gone insane, but it's a major distortion of life here that people eat it up because it adds color and meaning to their otherwise mundane lives. Disenfranchised people want other people to blame. Businesses want other parties to be responsible for their failures. The public hear that actual effort won't fix the issues, but getting attention and promoting violence will (by suggesting people will arm themselves or go to the streets)."

This makes me sound like an awful, naive, uneducated person but I'm not, lol. Being a minority myself, I'd hate to see another minority being treated unfairly because of who they are. I just don't think that in most cases the media is talking about is actually what the media tells us.

You are good with words, don't put yourself down, there's no need too.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

liberal
ˈlɪb(ə)r(ə)l/
adjective
1.
willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas.


Dismissing someone's views as trolling is as far from liberal as you can get

Not if it is legitimately trolling.

That said I don't think LT is (always) trolling, he has his moments but mostly he just has a few "sticky points" that he adheres to with bizarre stubbornness.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I feel like the guy in a wheelchair and people are talking to my carer and not me