[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

be interesting to hear your solutions?

Better integration and increased TRUE multiculturalism to combat the segregation and alienation that leads to a population of people who are easily radicalised.

We're moving swiftly in the opposite direction, though.

[Northern Monkey]

Just listening to a bloke on TV saying they adopted this tactic from Hamas who use cars as weapons in Israel.They mow people down at bus stops.Been using this for a while.I bet we could start seeing more of this style of attack.Scary to think you can be just at a social event or even walking down a pavement on a busy street and a car or lorry may possibly come and hit anyone and their family.
It's a kind of attack that doesn't need much planning at all.Just a vehicle

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Just listening to a bloke on TV saying they adopted this tactic from Hamas who use cars as weapons in Israel.They mow people down at bus stops.Been using this for a while.I bet we could start seeing more of this style of attack.Scary to think you can be just at a social event or even walking down a pavement on a busy street and a car or lorry may possibly come and hit anyone and their family.

ISIS called for this months ago, for lone wolves to use any means including vehicles to maim and kill, Lee Rigby was mown down before being attacked

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Seclusion and division is not going to solve this problem, it's going to compound it. How is it that people are failing to understand this?

Because people like to try to justify their prejudices. They're short sighted people that know they're in the wrong but desperately want to feel vindicated in their views.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

be interesting to hear your solutions?

How about we don't revert to the segregation of the 50's out of pure fear and ignorance?

[Liberty4eva]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Better integration and increased TRUE multiculturalism to combat the segregation and alienation that leads to a population of people who are easily radicalised.

We're moving swiftly in the opposite direction, though.

You could just submit to Sharia Law. That would stop the conflict.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

You could just submit to Sharia Law. That would stop the conflict.

I wouldn't though would I because, unlike you, I am not a religious nor a political extremist.

[Liberty4eva]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I wouldn't though would I because, unlike you, I am not a religious nor a political extremist.

I have never told you or anyone here my religion (or lack of). I'm just saying that for the 42% of young French Muslims who support suicide bombing, if you want them to feel more integrated and not alienated, you ought to submit to Sharia Law. I'm just trying to be helpful.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

I have never told you or anyone here my religion (or lack of).

I said I'm neither a religious nor a political extremist, something which you...

if you want them to feel more integrated and not alienated, you ought to submit to Sharia Law

...exemplified here, again.

[arista]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Do you think ISIS gives two pins for your pathetic hashtags, prayers and candles? Stop waiting to be slaughtered and demand our leaders DO something!

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4EVW8vzyu

LT the French President has sent another WarShip
to the Syria Coast.

[the truth]

it is 100% the fault of the insane illogical immoral march of political correctness and the unelected unaccountable EU....Millions of people passing through 30 odd nations unchecked , guess what some of them are criminals and some are terrorists and the EU rules have made it impossible to catch them, stop them in time...the first rule of government is to protect the people...the eu simply dont care about the people. their power obsession and masterplan comes above everything

[Liberty4eva]

Originally Posted by the truth

it is 100% the fault of the insane illogical immoral march of political correctness and the unelected unaccountable EU....Millions of people passing through 30 odd nations unchecked , guess what some of them are criminals and some are terrorists and the EU rules have made it impossible to catch them, stop them in time...the first rule of government is to protect the people...the eu simply dont care about the people. their power obsession and masterplan comes above everything

Common Sense. The thing that disturbs me more than anything is the image of thousands of young people protesting leaving the EU. To think that they could brainwash that many people.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by the truth

it is 100% the fault of the insane illogical immoral march of political correctness and the unelected unaccountable EU....Millions of people passing through 30 odd nations unchecked , guess what some of them are criminals and some are terrorists and the EU rules have made it impossible to catch them, stop them in time...the first rule of government is to protect the people...the eu simply dont care about the people. their power obsession and masterplan comes above everything

Very true
Security should be priority over everything else.Even the idealistic dream of some borderless free moving utopia.

[Liberty4eva]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I said I'm neither a religious nor a political extremist, something which you...



...exemplified here, again.

Funny you should call me an extremist. If I was to make a list of the people with the most extreme views you would be at the top.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

Funny you should call me an extremist. If I was to make a list of the people with the most extreme views you would be at the top.

I'm an extremist for believing in a middle ground of peaceful coexistence, whilst you insist that the two options are either:

"no integration at all, put an end to multiculturalism"

or

"just submit to Sharia law!!!1!".

OK . You are the very definition of extremist.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm an extremist for believing in a middle ground of peaceful coexistence, whilst you insist that the two options are either:

"no integration at all, put an end to multiculturalism"

or

"just submit to Sharia law!!!1!".

OK . You are the very definition of extremist.

Believing in "in a middle ground of peaceful coexistence" is a worthy ideal T.S. - one held by billions of aspirants since the 'year dot', but the reality is, that from that 'year dot' the human animal that is man has killed man by the billions.
'
Most individual races cannot even 'peacefully coexist' with each other in their OWN native countries, and never have done, due to irrevocable differences in Religious and Political ideologies - among other things - and the sickening examples of 'man's inhumanity to man', which is a consequence of those irrevocable differences, are splashed across EVERY page of history in dark red blood.

I am bemused and slightly frightened by the very real fact, that so many people in this country either do not understand the meaning of the word 'Control', or they understand it but fear it.

There is NOTHING wrong or inhumane, or xenophobic, or racist in wanting to control immigration, because without control we have chaos - exactly what is occurring now throughout a lot of countries in the world, but more specifically in Europe and certainly across the Middle East.

Peaceful coexistence - like 'integration' - requires cooperation between all relevant parties, and there are some immigrants who do not want to integrate or peacefully coexist, but rather specifically have the aims of - usurpation and subjugation.

To deny this, is to absolutely deny reality; the reality which is splashed across the Front Pages of the World's press and across the world's TV screens - on an almost daily basis - every time another atrocity is broadcast where 'home grown' immigrant terrorists have murdered the innocent citizens of their adoptive countries in cold blood through extreme ideology.

Liberty4Eva's contention that 42% of French Muslims think suicide bombing is justified is not compatible with Western society is correct. How can such a murderous facet of extreme ideology be compatible in a civilised country?

Being correct, then she is also correct in proposing what a lot of us - who are NOT in a state of denial - already know to be a tenet; that, like a pandemic disease, the problem of terrorism due to raging Islamic Extremism cannot be eradicated overnight, but there are short term measures that we can employ to contain it and inhibit its spread, and that is Immigration control.

That is; 'CONTROL' - not total ban T.S.

Control - limiting the numbers of immigrants. More rigorous vetting of immigrants. Actual implementation of the existing Immigration Laws which we already have - something, alas, which is scandalously neglected by the authorities.

Control - not murder, chaos and anarchy.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Believing in "in a middle ground of peaceful coexistence" is a worthy ideal T.S. - one held by billions of aspirants since the 'year dot', but the reality is, that from that 'year dot' the human animal that is man has killed man by the billions.
'
Most individual races cannot even 'peacefully coexist' with each other in their OWN native countries, and never have done, due to irrevocable differences in Religious and Political ideologies - among other things - and the sickening examples of 'man's inhumanity to man', which is a consequence of those irrevocable differences, are splashed across EVERY page of history in dark red blood.

I am bemused and slightly frightened by the very real fact, that so many people in this country either do not understand the meaning of the word 'Control', or they understand it but fear it.

There is NOTHING wrong or inhumane, or xenophobic, or racist in wanting to control immigration, because without control we have chaos - exactly what is occurring now throughout a lot of countries in the world, but more specifically in Europe and certainly across the Middle East.

Peaceful coexistence - like 'integration' - requires cooperation between all relevant parties, and there are some immigrants who do not want to integrate or peacefully coexist, but rather specifically have the aims of - usurpation and subjugation.

To deny this, is to absolutely deny reality; the reality which is splashed across the Front Pages of the World's press and across the world's TV screens - on an almost daily basis - every time another atrocity is broadcast where 'home grown' immigrant terrorists have murdered the innocent citizens of their adoptive countries in cold blood through extreme ideology.

Liberty4Eva's contention that 42% of French Muslims think suicide bombing is justified is not compatible with Western society is correct. How can such a murderous facet of extreme ideology be compatible in a civilised country?

Being correct, then she is also correct in proposing what a lot of us - who are NOT in a state of denial - already know to be a tenet; that, like a pandemic disease, the problem of terrorism due to raging Islamic Extremism cannot be eradicated overnight, but there are short term measures that we can employ to contain it and inhibit its spread, and that is Immigration control.

That is; 'CONTROL' - not total ban T.S.

Control - limiting the numbers of immigrants. More rigorous vetting of immigrants. Actual implementation of the existing Immigration Laws which we already have - something, alas, which is scandalously neglected by the authorities.

Control - not murder, chaos and anarchy.

great post

unlimited immigration is madness
but in europe its even madder
this is unchecked undocumented immigration and movement of people across continents withouut knowing any thing about them and 1000s of these people are criminals and moving wepaons across endless border lines and the authorities are powerless to even check them, let alone stop them and arrest them.

The longer this insanity goes on the more and more europe will turn into the worst most violent war zones of the middle east
ANGELA MERKEL HAS GOT TO GO, SHE IS A COMPLETE POWER CRAZED CONTROL FREAK AND ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE BLOOD BATHS IN EUROPE AND SIMPLY ENORMOUS RISE IN TERRORISM IN EUROPE AND THE 100000S OF PEOPLE DROWNING AT SEA MAKING THE HAZARDOUS JOURNEY PAYING HUMAN TRAFFIKERS AND SLAVE TRADERS

[Anaesthesia]

My best friend at work is a German lady, who married an Iranian Muslim. His family moved to Germany when he was 10, and he fully integrated into the country he was brought into; his mother did not. She refused to learn German, after 28 years she refuses to even try and can use only the most basic phrases. She hates my colleague, and frequently at family get-togethers suggests one or another friend or cousin born into the faith as his next wife...notwithstanding they have been together for 19 years, my friend converted to Islam as a gesture to his family, and they have 2 teenage, european, multicultural children together. The mother in law does not hesitate to say this in front of my friend.

My friend and her family have been living and working in the UK for 5 years now. Her opinion is, if you wish to emigrate, at least pick a country that reflects what you want to be and how the general populace act. Do not move to a secular country if your religious and cultural wishes override all and do not reflect the new country. For the same reason, she (my friend) would not emigrate to Iran to be subjugated. If we would have to dress appropriately for living in an Islamic country, they should expect rules upon (eg) the veil, such as in (secular) France.

Incidentally they left Germany because of a rise in hate attacks against people in mixed marriages.



This is not political correctness, it is about being fully part of your chosen country and accepting their rules and morals. That's not racist. It's bloody common sense.

[Shaun]

I would absolutely agree with refusing entry to anyone who withholds extremist beliefs but surely the problem is identifying them? It just seems like a bit of a nightmare trying to say "this muslim: fine, that one: nope" with anything other than a hunch.

[empire]

my brothers friend is dating a british born iraqi girl and they have been togather for three years, and he is white and she's very westernised, and not very religious, her parents are bigots and hate white people, the hypocrisy is that they escaped iraq and moved here and hate are way of life, and they don't know about her white english boyfriend, one time they went into a market that was mostly a muslim enclave, the males would spit on the ground very close to her, and making death stare looks at her, the problem is that you get an immigrant population that mark their territory and make enclave's and ghetto's in towns and cities, and it causes huge problems, and it will kick off in france, the 2005 riots marked that france made the biggest mistake in the 50s and 60s, what happened in bradford and oldham here proved that the multicultuaralism experiment failed, and what have we been doing from then and now is, well we have been sugar coating it, same thing with sweden and germany, that's why countries in the east of europe have rejected the multiculturalism experiment, and the history of fighting the ottoman empire played at the back of there minds just made them understand,

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by empire

my brothers friend is dating a british born iraqi girl and they have been togather for three years, and he is white and she's very westernised, and not very religious, her parents are bigots and hate white people, the hypocrisy is that they escaped iraq and moved here and hate are way of life, and they don't know about her white english boyfriend, one time they went into a market that was mostly a muslim enclave, the males would spit on the ground very close to her, and making death stare looks at her, the problem is that you get an immigrant population that mark their territory and make enclave's and ghetto's in towns and cities, and it causes huge problems, and it will kick off in france, the 2005 riots marked that france made the biggest mistake in the 50s and 60s, what happened in bradford and oldham here proved that the multicultuaralism experiment failed, and what have we been doing from then and now is, well we have been sugar coating it, same thing with sweden and germany, that's why countries in the east of europe have rejected the multiculturalism experiment, and the history of fighting the ottoman empire played at the back of there minds just made them understand,

...you just went though from a hearsay thing of 'I heard a story'/someone told me/the friend of a relative etc and this is what happened to them...to 'they hate us/our way of life'..to 'it all kicks off in France'...to the 'failure' of multi-culture in many countries...I mean, this is it though, isn't it...the build up of fears of Muslims as a whole that are completely unfounded because they're isolated incidents...these fears are what prejudices/intolerances etc are built on...and it's how easily they grow and grow...if we heard something about a non-Muslim, a hearsay thing...'oh the guy down the road' etc did this and behaved like that..we wouldn't stereotype or even begin to stereotype whole communities from that...I mean it's a dumb and stupid/vicious circle isn't it...because maybe there is not always the inclination to integrate, when such prejudice and stereotyping is shown...because you've just jumped to 'world problems' from an isolated and 'hearsay' incident...

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Shaun

I would absolutely agree with refusing entry to anyone who withholds extremist beliefs but surely the problem is identifying them? It just seems like a bit of a nightmare trying to say "this muslim: fine, that one: nope" with anything other than a hunch.

its not impossible just have a green card system, where people qualify to get into a country and qualify over time to become a citizen... like so many other developed nations, australia, new zealand, canada , america etc etc

well with the schengen and the eu anyone goes anywhere unchecked...its absolutely insane..amongst the millions there are many.illegals, there are some thieves, there are some murderers, there are some terrorists etc thats just a fact and we dont know who is who....how the heck can cops catch them all with no checks and no border controls?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Anaesthesia

My best friend at work is a German lady, who married an Iranian Muslim. His family moved to Germany when he was 10, and he fully integrated into the country he was brought into; his mother did not. She refused to learn German, after 28 years she refuses to even try and can use only the most basic phrases. She hates my colleague, and frequently at family get-togethers suggests one or another friend or cousin born into the faith as his next wife...notwithstanding they have been together for 19 years, my friend converted to Islam as a gesture to his family, and they have 2 teenage, european, multicultural children together. The mother in law does not hesitate to say this in front of my friend.

My friend and her family have been living and working in the UK for 5 years now. Her opinion is, if you wish to emigrate, at least pick a country that reflects what you want to be and how the general populace act. Do not move to a secular country if your religious and cultural wishes override all and do not reflect the new country. For the same reason, she (my friend) would not emigrate to Iran to be subjugated. If we would have to dress appropriately for living in an Islamic country, they should expect rules upon (eg) the veil, such as in (secular) France.

Incidentally they left Germany because of a rise in hate attacks against people in mixed marriages.



This is not political correctness, it is about being fully part of your chosen country and accepting their rules and morals. That's not racist. It's bloody common sense.

Great post.

[user104658]

Not sure if people realise that what they're describing is not "multiculturalism". It's a complete failure to properly implement multiculturalism.

It CAN and DOES work if people are willing to put in the work but the most important factor is acceptance and integration. The reason it has ended up failing so badly in so many areas, the reasons that ghettos and divisions end up forming, has as much to do with lack of acceptance as it does the desire of those who end up there.

Look back over the last 50/60 years, or since WW2 really, and tell me that Britain (average Bob in the average British town) opened his arms and accepted other cultures?

Rejection leads to alienation leads to resisting integration. The exact OPPOSITE of multiculturalism.