[arista]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

What we are seeing i think is a form of copy catting. Those not particularly stable see events on the news and think ... hey, i could do that. All it takes is someone a bit mentally vulnerable. I too don't take what I hear as fact, its not like the police are proven to be 100% accurate in their summation of situations in the past. For me, it was still a terrorist attack, albeit not clear if it was related to ISIS or not, it was still a terrorist attack and should be viewed as such.

Bang On Right
b.o.t.s.

He will go to Court soon
and more will come out.
Also I hate BBC saying he is from Norway
(and now not mentioning he is
originally from Somali)


I thank LBC Global Radio
for sticking with the Full story

[user104658]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

What we are seeing i think is a form of copy catting. Those not particularly stable see events on the news and think ... hey, i could do that. All it takes is someone a bit mentally vulnerable. I too don't take what I hear as fact, its not like the police are proven to be 100% accurate in their summation of situations in the past. For me, it was still a terrorist attack, albeit not clear if it was related to ISIS or not, it was still a terrorist attack and should be viewed as such.

It's pure conjecture; you could just as easily say that this was caused by xenophobia in the wake of Brexit. Maybe this mentally unstable individual who is not a UK native experienced higher levels of hostility / xenophobia in the wake of Brexit and that was enough to push him over the edge and start attacking people.

Is that what happened? I have absolutely no idea, it's a total guess, but it's just as likely a scenario as it being a terrorist copycat attack.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

What we are seeing i think is a form of copy catting. Those not particularly stable see events on the news and think ... hey, i could do that. All it takes is someone a bit mentally vulnerable. I too don't take what I hear as fact, its not like the police are proven to be 100% accurate in their summation of situations in the past. For me, it was still a terrorist attack, albeit not clear if it was related to ISIS or not, it was still a terrorist attack and should be viewed as such.

My thoughts exactly, I understand the need for people to retain perspective but let's not just shrug our shoulders and call mental illness the police won't have had time to make an informed judgement on that. He was 19, what brought him to London from Norway, who did he live with, was he under medical supervision all questions I would like to get an answer to,

[Cherie]

Also, how long was he here, who funded his trip and how was he supporting himself, I have a lot of questions, that's not xenophobia that's common sense

[bots]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's pure conjecture; you could just as easily say that this was caused by xenophobia in the wake of Brexit. Maybe this mentally unstable individual who is not a UK native experienced higher levels of hostility / xenophobia in the wake of Brexit and that was enough to push him over the edge and start attacking people.

Is that what happened? I have absolutely no idea, it's a total guess, but it's just as likely a scenario as it being a terrorist copycat attack.

Someone that goes wild with a knife attacking members of the public, is terrorising them. Do you think the people being attacked were not frightened?

Therefore, by definition, it is a terrorist attack. No jumping to conclusions necessary, its a fact.

As i said, we don't know if it was directly related to ISIS, but at a minimum, it is a copycat of similar ISIS inspired events. We haven't had brexit random stabbings, so again, with respect, please don't attribute my statements to lacking coherence and clarity.

The details will no doubt come out over time, but I share Cherie's concern that it is being swept under the carpet when it should most certainly not be.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Someone that goes wild with a knife attacking members of the public, is terrorising them. Do you think the people being attacked were not frightened?

Therefore, by definition, it is a terrorist attack. No jumping to conclusions necessary, its a fact.

On a technicality yes, but... That is not what most people mean when they say "terrorist attack", it is not what the media means when it talks of terrorist attacks, and it is not the connotation of the term (which is vital) so for the sake of clarity, in my opinion, it should be avoided in the case of random rage-fuelled attacks that are not politically motivated.

As i said, we don't know if it was directly related to ISIS, but at a minimum, it is a copycat of similar ISIS inspired events.

There is absolutely no evidence at all of this? These sorts of attacks have been going on a Ince long before ISIS / Islamic terrorism and you could just as easily assume that it's a "copycat" of Columbine, or any number of similar mass attacks.

Are mentally disturbed people increasingly lashing out and attacking? Yes, potentially... I don't know the actual stats, it may just be that it sells papers these days do is being reported on a larger scale... But anyway, if it IS true that it's on the rise, what they are being inspired by is an atmosphere of chaos and violence that is being furthered and encouraged by PEOPLE and THE MEDIA.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

On a technicality yes, but... That is not what most people mean when they say "terrorist attack", it is not what the media means when it talks of terrorist attacks, and it is not the connotation of the term (which is vital) so for the sake of clarity, in my opinion, it should be avoided in the case of random rage-fuelled attacks that are not politically motivated.



There is absolutely no evidence at all of this? These sorts of attacks have been going on a Ince long before ISIS / Islamic terrorism and you could just as easily assume that it's a "copycat" of Columbine, or any number of similar mass attacks.

Are mentally disturbed people increasingly lashing out and attacking? Yes, potentially... I don't know the actual stats, it may just be that it sells papers these days do is being reported on a larger scale... But anyway, if it IS true that it's on the rise, what they are being inspired by is an atmosphere of chaos and violence that is being furthered and encouraged by PEOPLE and THE MEDIA.

..there's definitely felt as though there has been a rise in 'random' attacks that have caused deaths/serious injuries etc ..and yes, it could be questioned 'are they terrorist group inspired' ..?...but in thinking about it, I think it's also possible that funding is so dire in mental health care and people with mental health issues/serious ones, not getting the care they should be so a link there as well, maybe..?....

[Ammi]

...we don't give the funding that is needed and is this what we get..?..death of random innocents....

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...we don't give the funding that is needed and is this what we get..?..death of random innocents....

He s a 19 year old Norwegian national, and the UK should be funding his mental health issue? how long was he in the country? We could apply this theory to the Leytonstone slasher, not sure it applies here though

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..there's definitely felt as though there has been a rise in 'random' attacks that have caused deaths/serious injuries etc ..and yes, it could be questioned 'are they terrorist group inspired' ..?...but in thinking about it, I think it's also possible that funding is so dire in mental health care and people with mental health issues/serious ones, not getting the care they should be so a link there as well, maybe..?....

The funding is dire for mental health and has been for years, my dad is/was very actively involved in campaigning around it, he was a mental health professional for 25 years and then worked for the RCN council for another 10 (retired now). Essentially, it's under-funded and just generally not taken as seriously as "real" (physical) elements of healthcare. The thinking is totally backwards, though... if they doubled mental health funding, they would save twice as much again (or probably FAR more) in other areas, as properly funded mental health service would dramatically reduce drug / especially alcohol related illness, which costs untold billions. The UK has a massive alcohol dependency problem and it's firmly rooted in depression/anxiety and self-medication.

Apparently Scotland has recently renewed focus on mental health and there's a drive to have it at the core of services (rather than handing out prescription pills like they're tictacs), but frankly I can't see that extending to the rest of the UK, with the way things are going south of the border.

[Cherie]

Some huge leaps being made here by the same person saying we shouldn't leap to conclusions, we know nada about the guy apart from his nationality, let's see how long he was in the country before we start blaming UK mental health services which is underfunded but may be of no consequence in this case

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Some huge leaps being made here by the same person saying we shouldn't leap to conclusions, we know nada about the guy apart from his nationality, let's see how long he was in the country before we start blaming UK mental health services which is underfunded but may be of no consequence in this case

Are there? Where? I went a bit off topic, which I'll apologise for, I was really just responding to the part about mental health services being under-funded which is true. You're correct that - just as with terrorism - we have no idea whether or not it's relevant to this specific case at this point.

Apparently assuming that it's terrorism related is OK, though. We shouldn't make any assumptions, unless that assumption is " ISIS!", because Terrorists.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Are there? Where? I went a bit off topic, which I'll apologise for, I was really just responding to the part about mental health services being under-funded which is true. You're correct that - just as with terrorism - we have no idea whether or not it's relevant to this specific case at this point.

Apparently assuming that it's terrorism related is OK, though. We shouldn't make any assumptions, unless that assumption is " ISIS!", because Terrorists.

As I've said previously I'm not assuming anything, after the Leytonstone incident the guys family came out quickly in his defence and could prove they were trying to get him help with his mental health, nevertheless less his actions were inspired by ISIS, the seems a bit different and until I hear more I am not discounting anything, I don't think the police do anyone any favours by immediately jumping on mental health as a motive.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

As I've said previously I'm not assuming anything, after the Leytonstone incident the guys family came out quickly in his defence and could prove they were trying to get him help with his mental health, nevertheless less his actions were inspired by ISIS, the seems a bit different and until I hear more I am not discounting anything, I don't think the police do anyone any favours by immediately jumping on mental health as a motive.

No they don't but the police (or others - usually it *is* others - the public and the media) not only "do no favours" but actively cause harm by jumping on terrorism as a motivation.

[Kizzy]

The mental health issue could just as well be due to substance abuse? It seems the increased armed presence has had the opposite effect, far from making those in the capital feel safer it has ramped up the pressure to feel vulnerable to immediate attack.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The mental health issue could just as well be due to substance abuse? It seems the increased armed presence has had the opposite effect, far from making those in the capital feel safer it has ramped up the pressure to feel vulnerable to immediate attack.

I don't know anyone that feels like that Kizzy, police presence on the streets is reassuring as it would be in any City

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I don't know anyone that feels like that Kizzy, police presence on the streets is reassuring as it would be in any City

A police presence yes...an armed presence no.

I felt like that, I was in London recently and the armed presence was unnerving.
Of course I'm just another northern monkey.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

A police presence yes...an armed presence no.

I felt like that, I was in London recently and the armed presence was unnerving.
Of course I'm just another northern monkey.

Soft Northerners, you need to toughen up

[Liberty4eva]

Brexit was really only half the battle. The other half is to hold the UK politician's feet to the fire and stop this scum from going to your country.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Soft Northerners, you need to toughen up

Toughen up for what... walk around like a coiled spring? no thanks

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Toughen up for what... walk around like a coiled spring? no thanks

It really doesn't bother me at all

[bots]

armed police are necessary in order to be able to react effectively to the threats the UK currently faces, or are people actually saying the UK isn't vulnerable at the moment? Cause that seems to be the notion in this thread.

When we had the 7/7 attacks, I was very happy to see an increased armed police presence, and everyone working and living in London echoed that sentiment.

Perhaps the Jeremy Corbyn pacifist approach of ... don't do that again is seen as the better option?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I'm the last person anyone could accuse of paranoia, this is the second knife attack on the public in London in recent months that has been attributed to mental health, I have lived in London for years so I'm entitled to ask questions as to whether we are being told the truth, the streets were flooded with armed police only the day before the attack even though the UK has been in high alert for years and yes TS killings have been going on for years blah blah but random knife attacks on members of the public in crowded areas are not as common as you north of the border might assume. I agree that people should wait for the facts before assuming terror, that said I don't think we need to lap up every thing we are told either.

"At 8.20am we were called to the first stabbing and that man went to hospital where he is in a serious but stable condition.
"Forty-five minutes later other calls came in to other stabbings in the area. One of those people stabbed has died.
"The stabbings were random and there appears to be no link between the victims. They were also a cross-section in terms of ethnicity.

Us north of the border get the same news as the south... There have always been random attacks, I do feel that with the recent attacks in Europe, our armed response and the media there is a slight urge to presume a link whilst maintaining the perspective that there is still going to be unrelated violent crime as there was before.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-attacks.html

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

"At 8.20am we were called to the first stabbing and that man went to hospital where he is in a serious but stable condition.
"Forty-five minutes later other calls came in to other stabbings in the area. One of those people stabbed has died.
"The stabbings were random and there appears to be no link between the victims. They were also a cross-section in terms of ethnicity.

Us north of the border get the same news as the south... There have always been random attacks, I do feel that with the recent attacks in Europe, our armed response and the media there is a slight urge to presume a link whilst maintaining the perspective that there is still going to be unrelated violent crime as there was before.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-attacks.html

Most people killed in terrorist attacks are random, and aren't linked so I'm not sure what that comment is meant to prove

[Livia]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

armed police are necessary in order to be able to react effectively to the threats the UK currently faces, or are people actually saying the UK isn't vulnerable at the moment? Cause that seems to be the notion in this thread.

When we had the 7/7 attacks, I was very happy to see an increased armed police presence, and everyone working and living in London echoed that sentiment.

Perhaps the Jeremy Corbyn pacifist approach of ... don't do that again is seen as the better option?

And we're back to the "we don't live in dangerous times" comment. There was a whole swathe of people who agreed with that... and apparently that still do. It's like, if they ignore it, it'll go away. I suppose it's not close enough to home for some people.

Like I said in another thread armed police are everywhere on the continent, Paris was littered with them well before the terrorist incidents but the Parisians managed to carry on without buckling. The USA the same... I spend a bit of time in Israel every year and everyone's armed there, including primary school teachers... and people still live a normal life.

Something about this incident that's annoyed me from the start... they keep saying he's Norwegian of Somalian descent. He is not. He is Somalian with Norwegian citizenship.