[user104658]

Needs an "I am honestly pretty creeped out by all religion" option.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

You "Agreed" with LT about systematically closing mosques down one by one, reason being apparently because you personally don't see a use or reason for them? The councils should not be allowed to open them because you find the idea of a house of God "ridic".

I agreed with a portion of the post, please don't attempt to put words in my mouth.

My statement that houses of god are ridic was not a retort to LTs coment, I agree with the evidence based logic theory, that said there is room for faith... Which I choose to separate from religion.

Have I to issue a disclaimer every time I comment, that these are my own views and are not designed to offend or influence any one else in any way?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I agreed with a portion of the post, please don't attempt to put words in my mouth.

Have I to issue a disclaimer every time I comment, that these are my own views and are not designed to offend or influence any one else in any way?

Well when you simply "agree" after someone's post, people are to assume you agree with the full view if you aren't specifically agreeing with just a portion.

I'm not a mind reader.

[Rob!]

It's as peaceful as any religion that has extremists within it. Compare the 98 year old vicar on his bicycle taking in his wife's jams for the summer fete to a member of the KKK. It's a spectrum with pretty diverse ultimates at each end.

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Livia

Is everyone who thinks Islam is a violent faith "hypocritical and illogical"?

Catholic priests don't abuse children in the name of Christianity, Muslim terrorist do kill in the name of Islam. There isn't much of an analogy there, I'm afraid.

People acting in the name of Islam are on a killing spree right now, across the world. And they don't go for the clean kill, they crucify, they dismember, they skin, they cut babies in half in front of their parents... this isn't movie stuff, this is really happening. I've been to Jordan, I've been to the camps... I've heard the sh1t that goes on and I've heard it first hand.

I'm not going to answer your suggestion that, so long as people are white, then that's okay because frankly it's beneath contempt.

Getting together for a weekend and denouncing violence isn't enough. Moderate Muslims need to step up more because it's mostly THEY who are being slaughtered. Those Muslims living the soft life in the West need to speak up for their brothers and sisters in UN camps right now their homes destroyed and their loved ones dead.

The "extreme minority" of which you speak runs into MILLIONS. And every time anyone suggests Islam is dangerous and violent we have post after post suggesting that the majority of Muslims are peaceful. Well... we know that. And we know that 30,000 Muslims "from across the world" getting together and denouncing violence is like me throwing stones into the sea because there are sharks in there.

one of the best posts I've ever read on here. It's so true.

People do not realise what kind of horrific things go on over there, what they do to families who have a different faith... There are things I've read that have made me physically sick. And I genuinely mean it, i had to stop listening to the interview... if you're squeamish then its best not to read on, but I read that they tie babies legs to each of their parents and pull the parents apart from each other until... you get the picture. And thats not even the worst thing I've heard.

Yes, people of all religions kill, but this is a problem that needs addressing. It's a terrifying thought what they can do if we don't put a stop to it.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Well when you simply "agree" after someone's post, people are to assume you agree with the full view if you aren't specifically agreeing with just a portion.

I'm not a mind reader.

Never assume anything

[Livia]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

it needs to be eradicated from the UK and people "taught" evidence based logic, thought and reality if needs be. Why we tolerate any religion in 2016 is beyond me

and no town council should be allowed to build any mosque, in fact i would systematically close them one by one

or use them for youth clubs and craft fairs

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Agreed, the idea that there is a 'house of god' is ridic.

Who knew you were only agreeing with a part of the post and disagreeing with the rest?

[VanessaFeltz.]

No
No
No
No
No

islam ruins lives..

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Who knew you were only agreeing with a part of the post and disagreeing with the rest?

I have explained that query to marsh, I don't have to reiterate it for you.

[VanessaFeltz.]

Also anyone sitting at home in west thinking "oh we should be the nice ones and tolerate it" should live in middle east for couple of years then talk.

I was thinking the same couple of years ago.. But no they are sucking everything everyone has worked hard in society so THEY should suffer as well. And the muslims who are good people (which is like very low number but exists) shouldnt even be offended by my comment because they know i am right about those people.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I have explained that query to marsh, I don't have to reiterate it for you.

Really? I'm still at a loss to know how you meant the opposite of what you said. But whatever...

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Really? I'm still at a loss to know how you meant the opposite of what you said. But whatever...

Again I have explained it once if you don't understand then it's not my issue, I don't have the time to be repeating myself constantly.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Agreed, the idea that there is a 'house of god' is ridic.

I have NEVER witnessed views as contrary and confused issuing from the same member.

You state on other threads that you do not deny God or some omnipotent 'Spirit' - or words to that effect - then on here you decry as ridiculous any 'House of God'.

Ordinary, rational people in their millions regularly go to purpose built buildings called Cinemas - drawn there by their love of film.

Similar numbers regularly attend purposely designed and erected buildings called Sports Stadiums - drawn there by their love of Football, Rugby, Athletics, and other sports.

Similar numbers attend purposely built or adapted buildings called Theatres - drawn there by their love of drama.

Spiritual people who believe in God - and that includes Buddhists, Christians, Muslims, or Scientologists - LOVE God, so why is it 'ridiculous' that purpose built Churches, Mosques, Temples, and Meeting Houses, should be afforded to them where they can congregate to express and indulge that love?

Why would YOU or ANYONE else deny them that right?

Or does your much heralded and advertised Left leaning advocacy of Liberalism, and belief in Human Rights and Equality, only selectively apply to those doctrines which are a result of Cherry Picking that ideology?

Is NOT 'Religious Tolerance' a major part of Liberalist ideology?

In addition, there are SCIENTIFIC PRINCIPLES behind ALL religious 'HOUSES of GOD' - though just HOW ancient man understand them is another thread subject.

Mosques and Cathedrals are DESIGNED to maximise their acoustic value, and scientists have discovered that singing HAS a tranquilising yet energizing effect on Humans, so it both soothes the nerves and elevates the spirit.

Endorphins - hormones released by the body during singing - are known to be responsible for feelings of pleasure.

Oxytocin, another hormone released by the body during singing, has been proven to not only combat anxiety and stress, but to also stimulate feelings of trust and bonding between groups of singers - such as CHOIRS and CONGREGATIONS of ALL denominations CHANTING or SINGING HYMNS.

In addition to the many benefits which COMMUNAL singing or Chanting in Houses of God bestows on participants, there is a SCIENCE behind the EXTERNAL EFFECTS of such practises - one which involves VIBRATIONS - hence the particular payment to the detail of acoustics on the part of the architects of these 'Houses of God'.

The term, 'Good Vibrations' has its roots in Religious congregational chanting and singing, and in addition, vibration is a KEY part of the rituals of WORSHIP in MAXIMISING the participant's 'Bond With God', and though I have no desire or heart to expound on that here, it involves 'Mathematical Resonance' and the fact that 'the processes by which sound is turned into harmonious music are the same processes that govern all associating vibrations throughout the universe.'

Anyway, NO ONE has THE right to deny anyone else the RIGHT to believe in God or to WORSHIP that God in a House of God - no matter WHO that Worshipper may be, WHAT his Religion may be, or WHAT deity he worships.

In MY opinion of course.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Livia

Is everyone who thinks Islam is a violent faith "hypocritical and illogical"?

Catholic priests don't abuse children in the name of Christianity, Muslim terrorist do kill in the name of Islam. There isn't much of an analogy there, I'm afraid.

People acting in the name of Islam are on a killing spree right now, across the world. And they don't go for the clean kill, they crucify, they dismember, they skin, they cut babies in half in front of their parents... this isn't movie stuff, this is really happening. I've been to Jordan, I've been to the camps... I've heard the sh1t that goes on and I've heard it first hand.

I'm not going to answer your suggestion that, so long as people are white, then that's okay because frankly it's beneath contempt.

Getting together for a weekend and denouncing violence isn't enough. Moderate Muslims need to step up more because it's mostly THEY who are being slaughtered. Those Muslims living the soft life in the West need to speak up for their brothers and sisters in UN camps right now their homes destroyed and their loved ones dead.

The "extreme minority" of which you speak runs into MILLIONS. And every time anyone suggests Islam is dangerous and violent we have post after post suggesting that the majority of Muslims are peaceful. Well... we know that. And we know that 30,000 Muslims "from across the world" getting together and denouncing violence is like me throwing stones into the sea because there are sharks in there.

Christian terrorism is a thing, in fact there's more deaths in the US attributed to Christian Terrorism than there is Islamic Terrorism. Every religion has it's lunatics, to make out that Islam is worse is just plain ignorant especially how you're discounting the fact that millions of Muslims regularly oppose terrorism but that doesn't matter because you said so and that's apparently that.

How would you feel if someone made out that you needed to be apologetic for Israel's frankly shocking civilian casualty ratio against Palestinian civilians just because you're a jew? You'd be outraged and you'd be right to be since why should you be tarred with a brush just because of your religion? Why do you believe this is an acceptable attitude to have towards Muslims?

It's hypocritical and there's no way around it, as for suggesting there's millions of IS supporters, where's the evidence? More Muslims have been murdered by IS than any other denomination or race, Muslims have more reason to oppose IS than anyone else because they've suffered more at their hands.

What are Muslims meant to do if denouncing violence is not enough? What would you have them do? You seem to have all the answers so share with the class. I'm guessing the answer is that nothing will be ever be enough.

[arista]

"Christian terrorism is a thing, in fact there's more deaths in the US attributed to Christian Terrorism than there is Islamic"


but Dezzy 9/11
was Evil Muslim group
who destroyed the safe world

that number is above
local nutters

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I have NEVER witnessed views as contrary and confused issuing from the same member.

You state on other threads that you do not deny God or some omnipotent 'Spirit' - or words to that effect - then on here you decry as ridiculous any 'House of God'.

Ordinary, rational people in their millions regularly go to purpose built buildings called Cinemas - drawn there by their love of film.

Similar numbers regularly attend purposely designed and erected buildings called Sports Stadiums - drawn there by their love of Football, Rugby, Athletics, and other sports.

Similar numbers attend purposely built or adapted buildings called Theatres - drawn there by their love of drama.

Spiritual people who believe in God - and that includes Buddhists, Christians, Muslims, or Scientologists - LOVE God, so why is it 'ridiculous' that purpose built Churches, Mosques, Temples, and Meeting Houses, should be afforded to them where they can congregate to express and indulge that love?

Why would YOU or ANYONE else deny them that right?

Or does your much heralded and advertised Left leaning advocacy of Liberalism, and belief in Human Rights and Equality, only selectively apply to those doctrines which are a result of Cherry Picking that ideology?

Is NOT 'Religious Tolerance' a major part of Liberalist ideology?

In addition, there are SCIENTIFIC PRINCIPLES behind ALL religious 'HOUSES of GOD' - though just HOW ancient man understand them is another thread subject.

Mosques and Cathedrals are DESIGNED to maximise their acoustic value, and scientists have discovered that singing HAS a tranquilising yet energizing effect on Humans, so it both soothes the nerves and elevates the spirit.

Endorphins - hormones released by the body during singing - are known to be responsible for feelings of pleasure.

Oxytocin, another hormone released by the body during singing, has been proven to not only combat anxiety and stress, but to also stimulate feelings of trust and bonding between groups of singers - such as CHOIRS and CONGREGATIONS of ALL denominations CHANTING or SINGING HYMNS.

In addition to the many benefits which COMMUNAL singing or Chanting in Houses of God bestows on participants, there is a SCIENCE behind the EXTERNAL EFFECTS of such practises - one which involves VIBRATIONS - hence the particular payment to the detail of acoustics on the part of the architects of these 'Houses of God'.

The term, 'Good Vibrations' has its roots in Religious congregational chanting and singing, and in addition, vibration is a KEY part of the rituals of WORSHIP in MAXIMISING the participant's 'Bond With God', and though I have no desire or heart to expound on that here, it involves 'Mathematical Resonance' and the fact that 'the processes by which sound is turned into harmonious music are the same processes that govern all associating vibrations throughout the universe.'

Anyway, NO ONE has THE right to deny anyone else the RIGHT to believe in God or to WORSHIP that God in a House of God - no matter WHO that Worshipper may be, WHAT his Religion may be, or WHAT deity he worships.

In MY opinion of course.

I didn't do that... of course.

I don't believe anyone or anywhere is any godlier than anyone or anywhere else is all.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Never assume anything

Make your points clearer Miss Kissy.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Make your points clearer Miss Kissy.

I'll be sure to include the disclaimer with the explanation and a note from my mum in the future Miss Marsha

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I'll be sure to include the disclaimer with the explanation and a note from my mum in the future Miss Marsha

Make sure she signs it.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Christian terrorism is a thing, in fact there's more deaths in the US attributed to Christian Terrorism than there is Islamic Terrorism. Every religion has it's lunatics, to make out that Islam is worse is just plain ignorant especially how you're discounting the fact that millions of Muslims regularly oppose terrorism but that doesn't matter because you said so and that's apparently that.

How would you feel if someone made out that you needed to be apologetic for Israel's frankly shocking civilian casualty ratio against Palestinian civilians just because you're a jew? You'd be outraged and you'd be right to be since why should you be tarred with a brush just because of your religion? Why do you believe this is an acceptable attitude to have towards Muslims?

It's hypocritical and there's no way around it, as for suggesting there's millions of IS supporters, where's the evidence? More Muslims have been murdered by IS than any other denomination or race, Muslims have more reason to oppose IS than anyone else because they've suffered more at their hands.

What are Muslims meant to do if denouncing violence is not enough? What would you have them do? You seem to have all the answers so share with the class. I'm guessing the answer is that nothing will be ever be enough.

Firstly, it's grossly unfair that you should drag Israel into the discussion simply because I'm Jewish. But as you have.... I am REGULARLY put into that position. I'm regularly put into that position on this forum.

I WANT Muslims to stand up and be counted. I don't want them to be the target of Islamophobia... especially as it is their brothers and sisters (their own term) who are being killed. But the fact remains that Islam is the number one biggest threat to the West at the moment. In the best-case scenario, there are millions of radicals in Islam. If that's not a dangerous position to be in, I don't know what is.

I don't have all the answers and it's a childish comment to say I think I have.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Again I have explained it once if you don't understand then it's not my issue, I don't have the time to be repeating myself constantly.

I'm amused that you think I don't understand you.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

I'm amused that you think I don't understand you.

I'm amused you're amused.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

...
... as for suggesting there's millions of IS supporters, where's the evidence? ....

There are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world and it is recognised by security services around the world that around 7% of them are radicalised and in some way supporting terrorism. You work it out.

Of course, I won't be asking you for actual evidence that I'm wrong.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I'm amused you're amused.

No you're not.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

There are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world and it is recognised by security services around the world that around 7% of them are radicalised and in some way supporting terrorism. You work it out.

Of course, I won't be asking you for actual evidence that I'm wrong.

Well TS services have recognised that 95% of all humans are arseholes, which would presumably include Muslims. So if you do the maths, and assuming your 7% figure to be accurate, still only 7.4% of those Muslims are radicalised. That's pretty good going, to be honest.