[Walter White]

I don't agree with him on agnosticism but everything else he said makes sense. I'm an antitheist. Religion is the worst thing that ever happened to this species IMO. I hope to live to see the day when we ALL see sense!

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by RoboCop

I don't agree with him on agnosticism but everything else he said makes sense. I'm an antitheist. Religion is the worst thing that ever happened to this species IMO. I hope to live to see the day when we ALL see sense!

With or without religion human being will still want to **** on one another power, money and status and wanting control are Gods for a lot more people than Religious Deities.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

With or without religion human being will still want to **** on one another power, money and status and wanting control are Gods for a lot more people than Religious Deities.

Yeah, Power really is the root of all evil, organised religion (in my humble opinion of course) is just a tool that humans used to gain power over people, if that goes no doubt something else would replace it

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah, Power really is the root of all evil, organised religion (in my humble opinion of course) is just a tool that humans used to gain power over people, if that goes no doubt something else would replace it

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah, Power really is the root of all evil, organised religion (in my humble opinion of course) is just a tool that humans used to gain power over people, if that goes no doubt something else would replace it

Indeed, as in South Park when Cartman goes to the future, where the United Atheist Alliance is fighting against the Unified Atheist League.

I've sort of come around to that way of thinking with regards to being antitheist... People will always find things to follow with dogma and reasons to **** each other up. Might as well let people have their pretty fairytales if they're inclined to believe them and gain some comfort from them... Even if I know that it's certainly nonsense.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Indeed, as in South Park when Cartman goes to the future, where the United Atheist Alliance is fighting against the Unified Atheist League.

I've sort of come around to that way of thinking with regards to being antitheist... People will always find things to follow with dogma and reasons to **** each other up. Might as well let people have their pretty fairytales if they're inclined to believe them and gain some comfort from them... Even if I know that it's certainly nonsense.

Or you could have just quoted my post as I said more or less the same thing :

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Or you could have just quoted my post as I said more or less the same thing :

I prefer Niamh though

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I prefer Niamh though

I'm so gutted

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I prefer Niamh though

10 more brownie points for TS

[armand.kay]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah, Power really is the root of all evil, organised religion (in my humble opinion of course) is just a tool that humans used to gain power over people, if that goes no doubt something else would replace it

Completely agree with this even science has been used as justification for some of the most heinous acts.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Cherie

With or without religion human being will still want to **** on one another power, money and status and wanting control are Gods for a lot more people than Religious Deities.

The only post I agree with here , spot on

As for gervais hes a brilliant comedy mind, religion is by far his weakest subject as he ends up always going for the cheap shot, the cheap laugh and the obvious cynicism. I really think his thoughts in this area lack and insight and compassion.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by the truth

The only post I agree with here , spot on

As for gervais hes a brilliant comedy mind, religion is by far his weakest subject as he ends up always going for the cheap shot, the cheap laugh and the obvious cynicism. I really think his thoughts in this area lack and insight and compassion.

But where was he wrong?

[the truth]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

But where was he wrong?

his whole attitude and approach is wrong, its judgemental tedious mean spirited on the whole, attention seeking, hypocritical and condescending...he tries to over simplify and put into a box the billions who believe in a God or a greater being.if people want to believe in a God or superior being good for them. what people believe in is none of my business or gervaises. He doesnt come to it from a good place...now billy connolly a man of profound sincerity and a heart the size of texas approaches these subjects differently, he rips the piss out of anything and everything , yet remains open minded and benevolent soul...just seeing him getting highwith the navajo indians and running around naked in the desert was proof enough of that lol....gervais becomes quite sad and cynical when discussing religion. i remmeber well him sneer at kevin kline when discussing religion and beliefs in a greater being and wonderment at creation. its ironic too because gervais is more preachy than any comic ive ever known. hes far better in character playing a smug deluded buffooon...strange how hes soo great at playing that role...leave the real great comedy to billy, louis ck, richard pryor and larry david, etc

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by the truth

his whole attitude and approach is wrong, its judgemental tedious mean spirited on the whole, attention seeking, hypocritical and condescending...he tries to over simplify and put into a box the billions who believe in a God or a greater being.if people want to believe in a God or superior being good for them. what people believe in is none of my business or gervaises. He doesnt come to it from a good place...now billy connolly a man of profound sincerity and a heart the size of texas approaches these subjects differently, he rips the piss out of anything and everything , yet remains open minded and benevolent soul...just seeing him getting highwith the navajo indians and running around naked in the desert was proof enough of that lol....gervais becomes quite sad and cynical when discussing religion. i remmeber well him sneer at kevin kline when discussing religion and beliefs in a greater being and wonderment at creation. its ironic too because gervais is more preachy than any comic ive ever known. hes far better in character playing a smug deluded buffooon...strange how hes soo great at playing that role...leave the real great comedy to billy, louis ck, richard pryor and larry david, etc

This too can be said of many religious people.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

This too can be said of many religious people.

it can be said of loads of idiots regardless of religion

[Maru]

Originally Posted by the truth

his whole attitude and approach is wrong, its judgemental tedious mean spirited on the whole, attention seeking, hypocritical and condescending...he tries to over simplify and put into a box the billions who--

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

This too can be said of many religious people.

I've seen some atheists who are just as intolerant and bigoted as some religious folk. I'm surprised to see it so often coming from the atheist side but admittedly it's helluva a lot easier to troll religious followers than it is to troll most any other group. If you love trolling people and happen to be atheist, then it's a tempting buffet of self-amusement.

Personally, it's easier to just judge people according to what they do and the values they represent through those actions rather than they go what they actually (or claim to) believe or the # of degrees they've obtained. Usually for the sake of flaunting said belief in lieu of various personal flaws...

In the end, what they do or don't believe has no real bearing for me if the actual person is a horrible human being... life is too short to waste time on it. Most people who quit religion or start a religion do so for personal reasons, which is not really our business unless they somehow make it our personal issue. Things like trauma, chronic harassment, mass suicides, war or murder are problems... not trite things like someone said something religious today and you felt funny.

In that vein, I love watching cult documentaries on things like Scientology and the FLDS. Both groups are ****ed up, but even more interesting how they rope people into their cults and shape the beliefs of their followers. How the US still puts up with Scientology's crap, I don't know, but they managed to beat the IRS for non-profit status... even though there's ample evidence it's nothing more than a pyramid scheme to separate people from their money.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Cherie

With or without religion human being will still want to **** on one another power, money and status and wanting control are Gods for a lot more people than Religious Deities.

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah, Power really is the root of all evil, organised religion (in my humble opinion of course) is just a tool that humans used to gain power over people, if that goes no doubt something else would replace it

My thoughts exactly. When people claim that religion causes problems, whilst at the same time saying they aren't religious, there's something that doesn't quite add up there. Because if you're basically saying that religion is man made, but you blame the religion instead of the man for the associated problems, that doesn't make any sense to me. How can a religion tell a man to act violently, if it's the man that has created the religion? Violence or social problems etc that are related to religion... it's essentially just humans being cruel to each other and well, like has been said, take religion out of the equation and we'd just find another excuse to attack each other. It's human nature. The way I see religion (and I'm massively oversimplifying it but) is essentially like a social group, and targeting the group as a whole for problems contained within it and laying blame on the religion itself instead of the people is superfluous. (It also ignores/undermines all the positive aspects of religion which although I'm not religious myself, I do think exist.)

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

My thoughts exactly. When people claim that religion causes problems, whilst at the same time saying they aren't religious, there's something that doesn't quite add up there. Because if you're basically saying that religion is man made, but you blame the religion instead of the man for the associated problems, that doesn't make any sense to me. How can a religion tell a man to act violently, if it's the man that has created the religion? Violence or social problems etc that are related to religion... it's essentially just humans being cruel to each other and well, like has been said, take religion out of the equation and we'd just find another excuse to attack each other. It's human nature. The way I see religion (and I'm massively oversimplifying it but) is essentially like a social group, and targeting the group as a whole for problems contained within it and laying blame on the religion itself instead of the people is superfluous. (It also ignores/undermines all the positive aspects of religion which although I'm not religious myself, I do think exist.)

The violence happens when you create a fictional all powerful being that supersedes human law and scientific knowledge and then use that to justify murder. Telling children that this being is real is the real crime

No one is killing people and shouting Kate Lawler is Great

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

The violence happens when you create a fictional all powerful being that supersedes human law and scientific knowledge and then use that to justify murder. Telling children that this being is real is the real crime

No one is killing people and shouting Kate Lawler is Great

Not the best analogy tbh but if someone did, would you blame the producers of Big Brother or the person who did the killing?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Not the best analogy tbh but if someone did, would you blame the producers of Big Brother or the person who did the killing?

Trick question; people would find a way to blame Bear.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Trick question; people would find a way to blame Bear.

Jim's Fault

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Not the best analogy tbh but if someone did, would you blame the producers of Big Brother or the person who did the killing?

In the religious setting both the religion that teaches children that superhuman beings exist and heaven exists and the idiots who murder believing it are equally culpable

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

In the religious setting both the religion that teaches children that superhuman beings exist and heaven exists and the idiots who murder believing it are equally culpable

Even at the very most basic level... the people who actively carry out acts of violence know - either for certain, or with very high probability - that they are not going to come out of it alive. I am utterly convinced that there would be very few lining up to be the ones with bombs on their chests or AK's on their backs if they realised that they actually get naught after death. Literally nothing. Fin.

Not just jihadists either. Most "legitimate" armed forces across the world have pushed the same angle throughout history, from the Holy Roman Empire to the US Military, and for the same reasons. Convince a soldier that there's an afterlife and he will automatically fight harder.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

My thoughts exactly. When people claim that religion causes problems, whilst at the same time saying they aren't religious, there's something that doesn't quite add up there. Because if you're basically saying that religion is man made, but you blame the religion instead of the man for the associated problems, that doesn't make any sense to me. How can a religion tell a man to act violently, if it's the man that has created the religion? Violence or social problems etc that are related to religion... it's essentially just humans being cruel to each other and well, like has been said, take religion out of the equation and we'd just find another excuse to attack each other. It's human nature. The way I see religion (and I'm massively oversimplifying it but) is essentially like a social group, and targeting the group as a whole for problems contained within it and laying blame on the religion itself instead of the people is superfluous. (It also ignores/undermines all the positive aspects of religion which although I'm not religious myself, I do think exist.)

Absolutely there's been loads of good done under the name of Religion but equally it has been horrendously abused. Speaking specifically for what the Catholic church did in Ireland, the abuse of their power here was unforgivable, thankfully we're finally shaking it off now (although not 100% there yet)

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

My thoughts exactly. When people claim that religion causes problems, whilst at the same time saying they aren't religious, there's something that doesn't quite add up there. Because if you're basically saying that religion is man made, but you blame the religion instead of the man for the associated problems, that doesn't make any sense to me. How can a religion tell a man to act violently, if it's the man that has created the religion? Violence or social problems etc that are related to religion... it's essentially just humans being cruel to each other and well, like has been said, take religion out of the equation and we'd just find another excuse to attack each other. It's human nature. The way I see religion (and I'm massively oversimplifying it but) is essentially like a social group, and targeting the group as a whole for problems contained within it and laying blame on the religion itself instead of the people is superfluous. (It also ignores/undermines all the positive aspects of religion which although I'm not religious myself, I do think exist.)

Agree with all that Jamie