[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Yeah I meant polling. I'm on my tablet typing with thumbs and it likes to auto correct the odd word strangely. On occasion I find this amusing so I haven't turned it off. I wasn't trying to initiate relations of any kind.

As Livia has said it is illegal to mess with the mail. I'm fairly sure it's no less secure to post your vote as it is to do it at the local school.

Did 200,000 votes go missing from a local school?
Are the 'electoral commission' representatives ( such as Livia) not ever present to manage procedures and guard the ballot boxes?

the two are very different in structure and execution therefore they cannot be 'as secure' as one another can they?

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Feel like this is a covert admission that you are in my cult

I just remembered the SNP is between us like a big festering sore.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

As a voter you don't have the kind of information I do as an election agent. That is not setting myself up, nor is it knocking anyone down. It's just the way it is. If someone on here was a professional in a certain area, I'd be interested to hear their opinion, I wouldn't get all huffy because they knew something I didn't.

If you want to continue to trip-trap over my bridge... I won't take that away from you.

If you want to set yourself up as a troll I won't take that away from you.

You haven't stated anything that is not already known by every voter in the UK though... what esoteric knowledge do you have?
You vote at a station the box is sealed and transported with representatives of the electoral commission... You post your vote and it ends up wherever with whoever, as regularly reported.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Did 200,000 votes go missing from a local school?
Are the 'electoral commission' representatives ( such as Livia) not ever present to manage procedures and guard the ballot boxes?

the two are very different in structure and execution therefore they cannot be 'as secure' as one another can they?

You can hand them in to the council offices personally if you are worried.

I am now visualising Livia guarding her ballot box with a well honed knife. Is that how it happens?

[bots]

There is so much conjecture its amazing. Whether there is fraud in it or not really doesn't matter as all sides have the same opportunities to be fraudulent, which makes it a self levelling, balanced system. Fraud comes into play when someone gets an unfair advantage over another through fraud, like holding people at gunpoint at the polling station etc. Mountains out of molehills.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If you want to set yourself up as a troll I won't take that away from you.

You haven't stated anything that is not already known by every voter in the UK though... what esoteric knowledge do you have?
You vote at a station the box is sealed and transported with representatives of the electoral commission... You post your vote and it ends up wherever with whoever, as regularly reported.

I thought Livia was pretty clear and concise in her post back on page 4. Maybe a reread?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

There is so much conjecture its amazing. Whether there is fraud in it or not really doesn't matter as all sides have the same opportunities to be fraudulent, which makes it a self levelling, balanced system. Fraud comes into play when someone gets an unfair advantage over another through fraud, like holding people at gunpoint at the polling station etc. Mountains out of molehills.

Are you saying the representatives of the electoral commission have the potential to act fraudulently?....

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jaxie

You can hand them in to the council offices personally if you are worried.

I am now visualising Livia guarding her ballot box with a well honed knife. Is that how it happens?

Why?... you may as well go cast your vote if you're going to do that :/

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

There's odd we do, maybe the 'officials' are not at thorough as is suggested?

There is less mail now than ever, so that's not really a bona fide excuse for mail going missing.

Maybe..I have never really thought about it before tbh. Didin't even realise this was wrong as its how it as always been done :S

We basically just turn up to the church over the road, give our names and addresses, there are no 'booths' just a kinda stand thing with 2 parts (so 2 people can do theirs at once) then fold and stick into a box. But the people manning the desk have their address/name book in plain view of everyone, and they just tick off whoevers been to vote.

Good thing I have never needed my card as they always go missing by election day

[bots]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Are you saying the representatives of the electoral commission have the potential to act fraudulently?....

anyone can act fraudulently.

If someone fraudulently moved the goalposts closer together at both ends of the football field, its still a balanced game. If someone alters only one set of posts, its still a balanced game because they change direction at half time ...

Saying that a system is open to fraud is not the same thing as a result being affected

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I thought Livia was pretty clear and concise in her post back on page 4. Maybe a reread?

So there is a representative who checks the votes against the electronic signature copy....that wasn't clarified was it?
Also the method of transportation isn't that reliable, for the reasons I specified earlier backed with proof.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

anyone can act fraudulently.

If someone fraudulently moved the goalposts closer together at both ends of the football field, its still a balanced game. If someone alters only one set of posts, its still a balanced game because they change direction at half time ...

Saying that a system is open to fraud is not the same thing as a result being affected

If votes go missing then that has the potential to affect the result regardless of your pointless football analogy.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Maybe..I have never really thought about it before tbh. Didin't even realise this was wrong as its how it as always been done :S

We basically just turn up to the church over the road, give our names and addresses, there are no 'booths' just a kinda stand thing with 2 parts (so 2 people can do theirs at once) then fold and stick into a box. But the people manning the desk have their address/name book in plain view of everyone, and they just tick off whoevers been to vote.

Good thing I have never needed my card as they always go missing by election day

IT is not wrong to vote without your polling card Vicky.
All perfectly legal and above board.
Loads of people lose their cards between it arriving and polling d, I used to put ours away for safe keeping and then come the day, forget where I had put them

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Did 200,000 votes go missing from a local school?
Are the 'electoral commission' representatives ( such as Livia) not ever present to manage procedures and guard the ballot boxes?

the two are very different in structure and execution therefore they cannot be 'as secure' as one another can they?

I do not and have never represented the Electoral Commission.

I have never had anything to do with ballot boxes, as a party agent you are not allowed to touch ballots nor tamper with a ballot box.

Best you learn the structures before you comment on their security.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If votes go missing then that has the potential to affect the result regardless of your pointless football analogy.

in an election, the only place that fraudulent activity affects results is in marginal seats. Consequently, marginal seats are subject to the highest degree of scrutiny across the whole process by all sides involved. The existing system is very good

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

anyone can act fraudulently.

If someone fraudulently moved the goalposts closer together at both ends of the football field, its still a balanced game. If someone alters only one set of posts, its still a balanced game because they change direction at half time ...

Saying that a system is open to fraud is not the same thing as a result being affected

BRILLIANT.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Are you saying the representatives of the electoral commission have the potential to act fraudulently?....

Polling stations are staffed by volunteers approved by your local authority's electoral services department. NOT the Electoral Commission.

Didn't you say that, as a voter, you knew all this stuff?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

I do not and have never represented the Electoral Commission.

I have never had anything to do with ballot boxes, as a party agent you are not allowed to touch ballots nor tamper with a ballot box.

Best you learn the structures before you comment on their security.

'I've worked with the Electoral Commission and my local electoral services on many elections,'

I see, you have worked with them, not for them.

That is still however their role to oversee the voting procedure as it happens.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

'I've worked with the Electoral Commission and my local electoral services on many elections,'

I see, you have worked with them, not for them.

That is still however their role to oversee the voting procedure as it happens.

When you've run out of steam you start with the semantics.

I worked for the Conservative party. It would be a conflict of interest if I also represented the Electoral Commission, don't you think?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Polling stations are staffed by volunteers approved by your local authority's electoral services department. NOT the Electoral Commission.

Didn't you say that, as a voter, you knew all this stuff?

Did I mention polling station volunteers?....

[ChristmasNeeve]

Stay on topic please people, no getting personal/insulting

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

When you've run out of steam you start with the semantics.

I worked for the Conservative party. It would be a conflict of interest if I also represented the Electoral Commission, don't you think?

I haven't run out of anything, you are labouring (lol) this as it detracts from the issue of postal votes I think.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Did I mention polling station volunteers?....

Oh who knows... you said a lot.

I've given you my professional opinion, which is quite different from representing the Electoral Commission. I don't believe postal votes are any less secure than those cast at a polling station. That's it... I have other things to do today.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Now I know people watch you at the polling station because it's a fact from Joey, I'll never be able to go there again without hearing the pink panther theme tune in my head.

Also a bit worried about all these carers and where they may be stuffing disabled people's votes instead of posting them.

Seriously though people at polling stations don't know you from Adam, polling cards don't have a photo ID How can they verify its you and why would they 'watch' you? It's no safer than a postal vote in reality and postal voting would get more people to vote.

You are twisting my words and you are far more reasonable than that.

Fair enough ridicule if you must, all I am saying is,you have to go to the attendants at the desk to get your ballot paper, you have to have a name and address to do so and/or a polling card.

They do not watch you do your vote, you go into a polling booth and mark your ballot paper, then fold it and put it in a sealed ballot box.

What they would see however is if you talked to anyone as to your vote or if anyone tried to influence you,only one person is allowed in the actual booth.

No one is watching you, just making sure the rules of voting in elections are upheld.

That is not however the case in the home and at the time of someone doing a postal vote.

Anyway you join the ridiculing all you like jaxie.

I think I have made my point, officials are there as a fact in the polling stations, they are not in the home with postal votes,they are also not there to see postal votes going into a letter box, as they are there to see the folded votes going into the sealed ballot box at the polling station.
Simple points and maybe in fact all needs tightening up no matter how people vote anyway.
With photo id at the very least.

And well done with your balloon in the post to a ship, I am glad you were successful as all should be with all posted items.
I merely shared with Kizzy that I had seen mail lost on 4 occasions as to mine sent and sent to me,this year already.

No need at all for any cheapening or ridiculing.
Voting in elections etc; to me is a serious issue and I am sure it is to the vast majority of all concerned.
I would like to believe that all votes are secure, however I do have concerns as to postal votes, that is all I am saying.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

You are twisting my words and you are far more reasonable than that.

Fair enough ridicule if you must, all I am saying is,you have to go to the attendants at the desk to get your ballot paper, you have to have a name and address to do so and/or a polling card.

They do not watch you do your vote, you go into a polling booth and mark your ballot paper, then fold it and put it in a sealed ballot box.

What they would see however is if you talked to anyone as to your vote or if anyone tried to influence you,only one person is allowed in the actual booth.

No one is watching you, just making sure the rules of voting in elections are upheld.

That is not however the case in the home and at the time of someone doing a postal vote.

Anyway you join the ridiculing all you like jaxie.

I think I have made my point, officials are there as a fact in the polling stations, they are not in the home with postal votes,they are also not there to see postal votes going into a letter box, as they are there to see the folded votes going into the sealed ballot box at the polling station.
Simple points and maybe in fact all needs tightening up no matter how people vote anyway.
With photo id at the very least.

And well done with your balloon in the post to a ship, I am glad you were successful as all should be with all posted items.
I merely shared with Kizzy that I had seen mail lost on 4 occasions as to mine sent and sent to me,this year already.

No need at all for any cheapening or ridiculing.
Voting in elections etc; to me is a serious issue and I am sure it is to the vast majority of all concerned.
I would like to believe that all votes are secure, however I do have concerns as to postal votes, that is all I am saying.

I was having a little fun Joey because the idea of being watched sounded funny to me. There is a huge difference between poking a little fun and ridiculing someone. It doesn't have to be so serious all the time. And just because someone has a joke with you doesn't mean you have to take it personally. You saw me poke the TS bear, he didn't get upset!

I'm also glad my birthday card and balloon arrived on time as it's nice to hear from the family on your birthday when you are far away from home.