[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

The problem with Schools is that they take away any of your own expression away from you and try and mold you into what they like (kinda like Simon Cowell actually lol) it's a horrible experience as I'm an individual and I do not like being told off for doing nothing wrong.

And this rules are rules argument that a few people on here are using to defend the head (who's in the wrong) the question I want to ask you is that do you agree with the rules? Because said rules being defended do not serve a single purpose other than to be controlling and make students feel less comfortable with the environment which is surely a bad thing?

I think rules on shoes/hair/colour/style are silly yeah

[Vicky.]

I understand the need for uniform..but whingeing on about what kind of black shoes (unless very OTT black shoes, such as knee high leather boots etc) is stupid.

Certain colours and such, yeah. But dictating exactly which shoes is OTT.

My husbands daughters school has found a way to make sure that overpriced school uniform is bought instead of people getting it cheaper from tesco or whatever. Their 'school colours' are dark green tartan in a specific print. Because of this, it cost just over 200 quid for 2 sets of skirt, top, jumper and trousers. I am quite pissed off with uniform policies at the moment They are allowed any black shoes though..as long as the heel is under 3 inches if they have a heel.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I think rules on shoes/hair/colour/style are silly yeah

Thanks for your honest answer Niamh, it's truly appreciated and I agree with you.

Imo Teachers should only be getting involved if the child is going out of control at School, or they're falling behind in lessons, that's what a School is for, not to be the fashion police.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I understand the need for uniform..but whingeing on about what kind of black shoes (unless very OTT black shoes, such as knee high leather boots etc) is stupid.

Certain colours and such, yeah. But dictating exactly which shoes is OTT.

My husbands daughters school has found a way to make sure that overpriced school uniform is bought instead of people getting it cheaper from tesco or whatever. Their 'school colours' are dark green tartan in a specific print. Because of this, it cost just over 200 quid for 2 sets of skirt, top, jumper and trousers. I am quite pissed off with uniform policies at the moment They are allowed any black shoes though..as long as the heel is under 3 inches if they have a heel.

crazy, mine have a uniform and tracksuit, just the top of the tracksuit in my daughters school is €60

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

crazy, mine have a uniform and tracksuit, just the top of the tracksuit in my daughters school is €60

We got 3 sets of Skyes for 20 quid. All from tesco as her uniform is grey trousers/skirt and white top. Black shoes. Red jumper. We did pay 20 quid for 2 of the schools jumpers as I think it looks better with the logo on those. But they didn't insist on it or anything so could have got two of those for a tenner or so too. Takes the piss when schools insist you get their own stupidly overpriced stuff..

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

We got 3 sets of Skyes for 20 quid. All from tesco as her uniform is grey trousers/skirt and white top. Black shoes. Red jumper. We did pay 20 quid for 2 of the schools jumpers as I think it looks better with the logo on those. But they didn't insist on it or anything so could have got two of those for a tenner or so too. Takes the piss when schools insist you get their own stupidly overpriced stuff..

It's ridiculous, I understand why schools want uniforms etc but not why they have to be so expensive. School is expensive enough as it is (free education.....)

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

The example is in principle. The school make rules, the parents when they send their children agree to adhere to the rules. Reading an A4 piece of paper about uniform is not hard to do.

The school in question was a failing school, the headmaster has a track record of improving schools like this.

and yet the stupid (few) parents think they somehow know better

"Black shoes" if they're not more specific than that they can't complain when some have shiny black shoes, some with a heel, some with velcro, some with lace.

Shoes have more variables than a standard colour.

[arista]

" I understand the need for uniform..but whingeing on about what kind of black shoes (unless very OTT black shoes, such as knee high leather boots etc) is stupid."

Vicky that Stupid Dad
went Live on GMBHD itv and newspapers
saying he was thinking of moving his
girl , out of that school.


So he then became the enemy,
thats the end result of this mess

[arista]

The Stupid Dad
on the right

[Vicky.]

Taking the kid out of school for it is a bit overboard, but I completely understand why he was annoyed. I would have been too. 'Stupid Mum' eh?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Taking the kid out of school for it is a bit overboard, but I completely understand why he was annoyed. I would have been too. 'Stupid Mum' eh?

As would I

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

i don't disagree, but that type of environment is to be encouraged, only after you have repaired what is a flawed school. The first thing to put in place is educational discipline, create a non disruptive environment for learning, then make it fluffy for everyone once its on solid ground

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

it serves 2 purposes. It's the heads way of saying to the education authority .... look ... how can i improve a school as disruptive as this .... it also zooms in on parents likely to be obstructive. They can deal with kids .... parents are more difficult .... and this identifies them on day 1.

..it's not really about 'fluffy' though...that 'solid ground' is difficult to reach if you alienate and he's alienating the very parents/pupils that he so needs to gain the trust of...those 'obstructive' parents are his target really because the less obstructive ones won't be the issue...but target in a positive way and to get on board, not target in a negative way as he's done...it's less also about the shoes themselves for me and more the method...'create a non disruptive environment'...(I believe or it's been reported that the police became involved..)...that's very far from creating a non disruptive environment, it couldn't be further from and he has to take some responsibility there himself because his first 'command' as a new head was to maintain command of a situation that he had initiated...if he couldn't do that then hmmmmm, it's not a good starting point for his new role for me...


...anyways and just on a point that Marsh made as well...the link given in the policy on the school website to what are 'acceptable' shoes are also quite decorative shoes/are not 'plain' at all so it's a very unclear policy and that really is the issue/rather than the parents or the pupils...

[VanessaFeltz.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Incorrect. Its crucial to the education of every child.

------------------------------------------------------

"Perhaps most importantly, a uniform means students don't have to worry about peer pressure when it comes to their clothes. When everyone is dressed the same, worrying about what you look like isn't so important. There is no competition about being dressed in the latest trend, which would put a great deal of financial pressure on students and parents. Potential bullies have one less target for their insults; it's hard to make fun of what someone is wearing when you're dressed exactly the same.


In America, where a majority of schools do not have a uniform, roughly 160,000 children miss school every day due to fear of attack or intimidation by other students. This might not be directly linked to what they're wearing, but having a uniform can be a safety net for many students who might otherwise suffer from bullying. A strict uniform gives the impression that rules are strict too, perhaps helping maintain a sense of order at school.

https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...school-uniform

But being so strict on the uniform also puts pressure on the children and their families and the point was... not to pressure children

[VanessaFeltz.]

Also may i just add how strict schools are in this messy subject, when i was a children they were OBSESSED with the haircut and stuff it just put dumbass pressure on me like it wasnt even that long. Just make everyone wear uniforms but dont freak out about every single **** let them just enjoy their life when they grow up they will face enough sadness anyways

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by MelihV

Also may i just add how strict schools are in this messy subject, when i was a children they were OBSESSED with the haircut and stuff it just put dumbass pressure on me like it wasnt even that long. Just make everyone wear uniforms but dont freak out about every single **** let them just enjoy their life when they grow up they will face enough sadness anyways

Absolutely.

Some great points across the board on this issue on this thread.
Too many to multi quote but Mock, Ammi ( as near always), Marsh, Niamh, Vicky and you yourself MelihV, have said some really good stuff and raised great points.

My school was strict,some of the things they moaned as to to full uniform, just seemed as ridiculous then as this incident does now.

[Livia]

It's brilliant prep for going to work. If you have to wear a uniform for work and decide to express yourself by wearing funky shoes, someone else will be doing your job by the end of the week. You have to follow rules in the workplace, unless you intend to be long-term unemployed, and then you can wear pretty much what you want and express yourself all day long.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

It's brilliant prep for going to work. If you have to wear a uniform for work and decide to express yourself by wearing funky shoes, someone else will be doing your job by the end of the week. You have to follow rules in the workplace, unless you intend to be long-term unemployed, and then you can wear pretty much what you want and express yourself all day long.

They're children though, they will be boring adults for long enough

[bots]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

They're children though, they will be boring adults for long enough

its a serious environment for group learning that must have associated rules with it. No-one will end up learning anything if everyone is allowed to do their own thing. Thats the point really, it is a struggling school, attempting to push up its performance, and very small minority are being disruptive and trying to fight against that aim, supported by their parents. It's wrong on so many levels

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

its a serious environment for group learning that must have associated rules with it. No-one will end up learning anything if everyone is allowed to do their own thing. Thats the point really, it is a struggling school, attempting to push up its performance, and very small minority are being disruptive and trying to fight against that aim, supported by their parents. It's wrong on so many levels

Well, I can't say much more than I already have I guess, we'll only end up going round in circles but I'll just say that I think what they're doing will end up having the opposite effect to what they want to achieve

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

its a serious environment for group learning that must have associated rules with it. No-one will end up learning anything if everyone is allowed to do their own thing. Thats the point really, it is a struggling school, attempting to push up its performance, and very small minority are being disruptive and trying to fight against that aim, supported by their parents. It's wrong on so many levels

I'd agree a little more if they were wearing red shoes, brown shoes, white shoes etc;, since the colour specified is black.
I don't see why it should matter what shoes were worn as long as they were black, as these were.

It is hardly being disruptive in the true meaning of the word in my view anyway.
Perhaps wearing multi coloured shoes would have been nearer that mark

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Well, I can't say much more than I already have I guess, we'll only end up going round in circles but I'll just say that I think what they're doing will end up having the opposite effect to what they want to achieve

I do too for what it's worth.
I would have actually learned as much dressed in a tracksuit as I use my Brain to learn.
I agree a uniform can be a good sort of training as to examples being set but if black shoes are the order of the day, and black shoes are worn, then what should be the issue.

If they then want a special kind of shoe, supply them then.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

They're children though, they will be boring adults for long enough

Yep, good training for them. And people are talking about bringing the voting age down to 16. If teenagers are smart enough to vote, they're smart enough to toe the line. You never hear parents and kids moaning about the strict uniform regimes of some of the top private schools... and they are strict. Parents pay thousands to send their kids and they manage to survive, express themselves and thrive without wearing shoes they've picked themselves. And no one's saying once they're out of school they can't wear whatever they choose and express themselves in any way they want.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

Yep, good training for them. And people are talking about bringing the voting age down to 16. If teenagers are smart enough to vote, they're smart enough to toe the line. You never hear parents and kids moaning about the strict uniform regimes of some of the top private schools... and they are strict. Parents pay thousands to send their kids and they manage to survive, express themselves and thrive without wearing shoes they've picked themselves. And no one's saying once they're out of school they can't wear whatever they choose and express themselves in any way they want.

I don't think you and I are going to agree on this one at all

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by Livia

Yep, good training for them. And people are talking about bringing the voting age down to 16. If teenagers are smart enough to vote, they're smart enough to toe the line. You never hear parents and kids moaning about the strict uniform regimes of some of the top private schools... and they are strict. Parents pay thousands to send their kids and they manage to survive, express themselves and thrive without wearing shoes they've picked themselves. And no one's saying once they're out of school they can't wear whatever they choose and express themselves in any way they want.

I agree 100% Well said Livia!

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I don't think you and I are going to agree on this one at all

If you're not going to agree with me I'm afraid we're going to have to wrestle in the car park.