[bots]

if you watch the American comedy shows, any of the topical shows, they are all ridiculing Trump for all its worth, some are even dedicating 50%+ of their shows to it. They are so one sided and bias in their condemnation, its shocking.

Both Hilary and Donald are dreadful candidates, but the establishment machine is working at 200% to sway the vote for their preferred choice. Is that really a democracy to use as an example to others?

I don't care how bad a candidate Trump is, a democracy should provide balance and perspective on both candidates equally, and nothing could be further from reality.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

if you watch the American comedy shows, any of the topical shows, they are all ridiculing Trump for all its worth, some are even dedicating 50%+ of their shows to it. They are so one sided and bias in their condemnation, its shocking.

Both Hilary and Donald are dreadful candidates, but the establishment machine is working at 200% to sway the vote for their preferred choice. Is that really a democracy to use as an example to others?

I don't care how bad a candidate Trump is, a democracy should provide balance and perspective on both candidates equally, and nothing could be further from reality.

Probably because there's no upsides to Donald Trump unless you're a bigot. It's not like Hillary hasn't been getting bad press though

it's probably too difficult to try to put a positive spin on anything Trump related and to do so would be just as manipulative as making him out to be the terrible candidate that he is. At least the latter is factual.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Probably because there's no upsides to Donald Trump unless you're a bigot. It's not like Hillary hasn't been getting bad press though

it's probably too difficult to try to put a positive spin on anything Trump related and to do so would be just as manipulative as making him out to be the terrible candidate that he is. At least the latter is factual.

THANK YOU.

You have just PROVED me RIGHT on what I have claimed in posts on several different threads.

So ANYONE who does not believe in being so simplistic and naive as to agree that Trump is The Devil Incarnate - 100% ALL BAD and without one redeeming feature - is a BIGOT.

Yeah, OK.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

THANK YOU.

You have just PROVED me RIGHT on what I have claimed in posts on several different threads.

So ANYONE who does not believe in being so simplistic and naive as to agree that Trump is The Devil Incarnate - 100% ALL BAD and without one redeeming feature - is a BIGOT.

Yeah, OK.

It's funny that he's only become The Devil since running for the presidency. I don't remember him being The Devil when he presented The Apprentice.

I think it's only because he's running against a woman, if he was running against another man, I don't think many on here would be that bothered.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

THANK YOU.

You have just PROVED me RIGHT on what I have claimed in posts on several different threads.

So ANYONE who does not believe in being so simplistic and naive as to agree that Trump is The Devil Incarnate - 100% ALL BAD and without one redeeming feature - is a BIGOT.

Yeah, OK.

Dezzy just likes calling people bigots, it gives him a feeling of superiority.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

THANK YOU.

You have just PROVED me RIGHT on what I have claimed in posts on several different threads.

So ANYONE who does not believe in being so simplistic and naive as to agree that Trump is The Devil Incarnate - 100% ALL BAD and without one redeeming feature - is a BIGOT.

Yeah, OK.

He literally only got as far as he did because of his comments on immigrants and muslims. If he never made those statements then he wouldn't have made the ticket.

People only like Trump for three reasons, he appeals to their bigoted opinions, or they are generally ignorant and believe that he should be president because he's 'different and not a politician' or, like many users on this site, they support him because they think it's funny to do so.

The rest of your post is pure exaggeration and silliness. I don't know what your problem is lately Kirk but sort it out.

[Yuki Maru Hoshi]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

He literally only got as far as he did because of his comments on immigrants and muslims. If he never made those statements then he wouldn't have made the ticket.

People only like Trump for three reasons, he appeals to their bigoted opinions, or they are generally ignorant and believe that he should be president because he's 'different and not a politician' or, like many users on this site, they support him because they think it's funny to do so.

The rest of your post is pure exaggeration and silliness. I don't know what your problem is lately Kirk but sort it out.

Kirk makes a good point. I think you may be too entrenched in your views to see the forest for the trees. Most of your posts have been heavily influenced by emotion and tinged with anger/outrage. Clearly others in this section have the same issue as well, but you are intelligent and do have a point a lot of times. However, It’s just impossible to argue with anyone when it comes to how they feel.

Feelings are specifically personal to you and your experiences as a person. I notice when people argue with your viewpoints, you take it as them deconstructing you as a person than hearing your views. You hold your views and so close to your heart, it makes it very difficult to separate you from them. You’ve shown a thin skin at times when people try to bring up the flaws in your argument and it's a shame. Not just kirk, but I and others have casually or not so casually have tried to have conversations with you, but you often take it very personally. Usually that results in you going the moral/self-righteous route, rather than taking in what others have said to you as something valid and worth listening to and recognizing. Maybe you don’t value their viewpoint, but it can come off as mean-spirited to use up their time with arguments if you don’t actually care to have one from any other POV. What you feel doesn't have to change…

Anyway… back on the point which kirk made, not everything in life is so black and white. If I had a choice to vote for a candidate that didn't engender any of the qualities I find abhorrent in a human being, I would no ****ing question vote them in and spread the word. However, the people we often have a choice of vetting are often not even remotely close to what we envision as being best for America. Maybe their smoke and mirrors campaign makes you feel that way... but again, it's feeling... when they're voted in, the real facts show that to not be the case. They have their own interests and they put those issues first.

So instead, we have to vote for those who are most likely to represent our interests and put them first.

Speaking on Trump's positions, I don't fully understand the phenomenon tbqh. Even I didn't take him seriously for a long time because I thought it was a reality TV villain posing as an actual political candidate... I didn't even think he'd win the primary.

Now here we are, he's a menace, but then this campaign has become gone downhill on so many levels, that not only is Trump's face covered in mud, but the media, Hillary and various other groups... Trump has fully and skillfully trolled the entire US political system. That said, I see some of Hillary's responses and manipulation of the viewpoints that have so many voters engaged (from Trump's demographics), that I get pissed off... every single one of those mother ****ers, Trump, Hillary, media, everyone... is trying to paint with broad brushstrokes and really have no ****ing clue the ire they've tapped into.

I don't think most people know what a status quo even looks like in the US. Every election cycle feels like a cognitive dissonance for me. I know other voters who feel the same. We are just so disenchanted with our govt... this has been going on for so long too. We had a gridlocked Congress when Obama when was voted in, as you recall... Republicans blocked Democrats... Democrats block Republicans.... same song and dance.

Some people are just fed up they are more than willing to vote the nuclear option. I guess because the political dogma here is so banal and low-level that Trump's sexism and overt disdain of certain demographics in this country really pale in comparison... most political stories now are all about scandals, self-victimization, throwing people under the bus, sex scandals with Congressional pages, booty on the side... you name it... we have become so desensitized. I think some people will hold onto even the mildest hope that Donald Trump can shake up this broken country (though I disagree and agree with you, he's just trash)... but that just isn't the way everyone feels here at home. If we could Build-A-Bear a politician straight into office, we would do it in a heartbeat over the likes of Hillary or Trump...

Look at the primary voting %’s at some point if you ever have a chance. I think it was NYT’s that mentioned that only 9% of the total population voted Donald Trump/Clinton onto the ticket. 9%. It’s hilarious to me that people are ranting and raging on the telly about how they can’t believe once again the status quo left them with such a **** ticket when almost no one votes in primaries…

To put it in perspective, in my county, Harris (which is the largest pop in TX) encompasses most of Houston and surrounding areas, Hillary Clinton received 156,729 votes… Trump received 147,721 votes… Harris County’s population is 4.3 million… their combined vote, 304450… That’s 14% of the total pop which is quite dismal. I vote in primaries and thankfully Cruz won my state.

Perhaps if Trump wins and royally screws everybody over, people will wake up and we will se a surge in primary participate. However, so many minorities and especially minority female voters opt out of getting involved entirely for “personal reasons”. Which is quite sad because these groups are being already under-represented.

So that said, it’s very hard to paint with such broad brushstrokes when considering the polls. We have such a poor showing at primaries and even some generals have this issue. I know some people that only vote every 8 years and will vote straight ticket the rest of the ballot. They stay home with the assumption during the midterms and always assume that the incumbent will be re-elected… I really don’t understand that kind of voter.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Maru

Kirk makes a good point. I think you may be too entrenched in your views to see the forest for the trees. Most of your posts have been heavily influenced by emotion and tinged with anger/outrage. Clearly others in this section have the same issue as well, but you are intelligent and do have a point a lot of times. However, It’s just impossible to argue with anyone when it comes to how they feel.

Feelings are specifically personal to you and your experiences as a person. I notice when people argue with your viewpoints, you take it as them deconstructing you as a person than hearing your views. You hold your views and so close to your heart, it makes it very difficult to separate you from them. You’ve shown a thin skin at times when people try to bring up the flaws in your argument and it's a shame. Not just kirk, but I and others have casually or not so casually have tried to have conversations with you, but you often take it very personally. Usually that results in you going the moral/self-righteous route, rather than taking in what others have said to you as something valid and worth listening to and recognizing. Maybe you don’t value their viewpoint, but it can come off as mean-spirited to use up their time with arguments if you don’t actually care to have one from any other POV. What you feel doesn't have to change…

Anyway… back on the point which kirk made, not everything in life is so black and white. If I had a choice to vote for a candidate that didn't engender any of the qualities I find abhorrent in a human being, I would no ****ing question vote them in and spread the word. However, the people we often have a choice of vetting are often not even remotely close to what we envision as being best for America. Maybe their smoke and mirrors campaign makes you feel that way... but again, it's feeling... when they're voted in, the real facts show that to not be the case. They have their own interests and they put those issues first.

So instead, we have to vote for those who are most likely to represent our interests and put them first.

Speaking on Trump's positions, I don't fully understand the phenomenon tbqh. Even I didn't take him seriously for a long time because I thought it was a reality TV villain posing as an actual political candidate... I didn't even think he'd win the primary.

Now here we are, he's a menace, but then this campaign has become gone downhill on so many levels, that not only is Trump's face covered in mud, but the media, Hillary and various other groups... Trump has fully and skillfully trolled the entire US political system. That said, I see some of Hillary's responses and manipulation of the viewpoints that have so many voters engaged (from Trump's demographics), that I get pissed off... every single one of those mother ****ers, Trump, Hillary, media, everyone... is trying to paint with broad brushstrokes and really have no ****ing clear the ire they've tapped into.

I don't think most people know what a status quo even looks like in the US. Every election cycle feels like a cognitive dissonance for me. I know other voters who feel the same. We are just so disenchanted with our govt... this has been going on for so long too. We had a gridlocked Congress when Obama when was voted in, as you recall... Republicans blocked Democrats... Democrats block Republicans.... same song and dance.

Some people are just fed up they are more than willing to vote the nuclear option. I guess because the political dogma here is so banal and low-level that Trump's sexism and overt disdain of certain demographics in this country really pale in comparison... most political stories now are all about scandals, self-victimization, throwing people under the bus, sex scandals with Congressional pages, booty on the side... you name it... we have become so desensitized. I think some people will hold onto even the mildest hope that Donald Trump can shake up this broken country (though I disagree and agree with you, he's just trash)... but that just isn't the way everyone feels here at home. If we could Build-A-Bear a politician straight into office, we would do it in a heartbeat over the likes of Hillary or Trump...

Look at the primary voting %’s at some point if you ever have a chance. I think it was NYT’s that mentioned that only 9% of the total population voted Donald Trump/Clinton onto the ticket. 9%. It’s hilarious to me that people are ranting and raging on the telly about how they can’t believe once again the status quo left them with such a **** ticket when almost no one votes in primaries…

To put it in perspective, in my county, Harris (which is the largest pop in TX) encompasses most of Houston and surrounding areas, Hillary Clinton received 156,729 votes… Trump received 147,721 votes… Harris County’s population is 4.3 million… their combined vote, 304450… That’s 14% of the total pop which is a quite dismal. I vote in primaries and thankfully Cruz won my state.

Perhaps if Trump wins and royally screws everybody over, people will wake up and we will se a surge in primary participate. However, so many minorities and especially minority female voters opt out of getting involved entirely for “personal reasons”. Which is quite sad because these groups are being already under-represented.

So that said, it’s very hard to paint with such broad brushstrokes when considering the polls. We have such a poor showing at primaries and even some generals have this issue. I know some people that only vote every 8 years and will vote straight ticket the rest of the ballot. They stay home with the assumption during the midterms and always assume that the incumbent will be re-elected… I really don’t understand that kind of voter.

You are a very smart, wise, and observant lady Maru. You put most of that in the first couple of paras a lot more kindly and sensitively than I would have! I hope it's received well. I fear not.

[Yuki Maru Hoshi]

Originally Posted by jaxie

You are a very smart, wise, and observant lady Maru. You put most of that in the first couple of paras a lot more kindly and sensitively than I would have! I hope it's received well. I fear not.

Hope for the best, expect the worst. My husband's motto at work

[bots]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Probably because there's no upsides to Donald Trump unless you're a bigot. It's not like Hillary hasn't been getting bad press though

it's probably too difficult to try to put a positive spin on anything Trump related and to do so would be just as manipulative as making him out to be the terrible candidate that he is. At least the latter is factual.

Its difficult to tell with Trump, some of his policies are good, others ridiculous, others plain fantasy. Hilary's under examination, while she may have considered the policies and issues in greater depth, it doesnt make them any more meritful (new made up word alert) in the scheme of things, it just depends where your political beliefs sit.

Both candidates have mountains of crap that can be thrown at them ... they have both been around for years, its there for anyone to see. That's not been reflected in the televised debates, and its not being reflected in the media coverage.

I think there is a real danger of Trump winning because of this clear unfairness. It will consolidate his support, but whether he wins or loses, the USA needs to go back to the drawing board on its method of presidential selection as it has become a laughing stock.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Alf

It's funny that he's only become The Devil since running for the presidency. I don't remember him being The Devil when he presented The Apprentice.

I think it's only because he's running against a woman, if he was running against another man, I don't think many on here would be that bothered.

I guess people hold more importance to the character of someone running for president than they do someone who presents a reality TV show.

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

if you watch the American comedy shows, any of the topical shows, they are all ridiculing Trump for all its worth, some are even dedicating 50%+ of their shows to it. They are so one sided and bias in their condemnation, its shocking.

Both Hilary and Donald are dreadful candidates, but the establishment machine is working at 200% to sway the vote for their preferred choice. Is that really a democracy to use as an example to others?

I don't care how bad a candidate Trump is, a democracy should provide balance and perspective on both candidates equally, and nothing could be further from reality.

I don't know about american shows but I'd agree that there's been more negative attention focused on Trump. I do think that it's his own doing though and not a conspiracy or anything like that. When things like that tape happens, and people coming forward and accusing him of assault, of course they're going to cover it. Just like when Hillary's email scandal happened that was covered too. And tbh, he's just an easier target for parody. Nothing to do with politics, just as a person and those shows are out to entertain.

Russell Brand made a video about the recent debate that's actually really funny and he makes fun out of both of them, he's just kind of mocking the whole election and makes some really good/funny points so I'd recommend it to people...

Youtube video