[Kizzy]

Monkey see monkey do.... Won't be long before he stuffs up

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Evasive? not even slightly. Your post that I quoted was obviously referring to the point I made about the uninformed masses then you tried to make out that I called you uninformed even though I didn't because you were looking for a reason to be offended.

It is one thing for one to 'rewrite History' when all records of that history has been 'removed' so no verification of that rewritten history is possible Dezzy, but wholly another to attempt to do so when the history being 'rewritten' is still THERE - recorded for posterity and for all to refer to for verification purposes.

AND the TRUTH of this issue is STILL on this thread and PROVES, that I did NOT refer to you or any post of yours in the "post which you quoted" or ANY other of my posts.

Your statement is a DOWNRIGHT FALSEHOOD.

I quoted Kizzy's post and ONLY Kizzy's post as can CLEARLY be evidenced by referring to post number 126, but duplicated below, anyway:

....................DUPLICATION................... ...................

"Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy View Post
....No. joe public does not have a clue what is about to theoretically knee him in the nads concerning brexit."

And MY comments:

"I am a member of 'Joe Public'and so are DOZENS of my friends and associates as are dozens more of people who I could best term 'acquaintances', and we ALL voted for Brexit.

Among these people are four Company Directors, two Doctors, two Solicitors, several Nurses, three Policemen, several Teachers, and several SME business owners, as well as dozens of 'Blue Collar Workers, several unemployed and quite a few 'Ducker And Divers'.

The one other thing which we all have in common - apart from our Brexit vote - is that ALL of us understand the real issues concerning the EU and our membership of it.

So while you are, of course, entitled to your opinion, you will forgive me if I elect not to pay heed to it, and this is based upon the fact - that in my opinion, which I am as EQUALLY entitled to - it is ALL YOUR posts which are so ill informed and erroneous as to the true facts concerning current affairs, including politics and the EU, that they attest to YOU having the woeful LACK of any REAL understanding of the issues often debated on here, NOT 'Joe Public'."
..........................END OF DUPLICATION....................................

So you see Dezzy, I responded to Kizzy's post NOT any post of yours, and HERE is your LATER RESPONSE to the above post of mine TO KIZZY, which you quoted but which up until then had NOTHING to do with you. YOU invited yourself into the discussion by quoting me and commenting on my post:

............................DUPLICATION........... ................................
"Quote:
Originally Posted by kirklancaster View Post
I am a member of 'Joe Public'and so are DOZENS of my friends and associates as are dozens more of people who I could best term 'acquaintances', and we ALL voted for Brexit.

Among these people are four Company Directors, two Doctors, two Solicitors, several Nurses, three Policemen, several Teachers, and several SME business owners, as well as dozens of 'Blue Collar Workers, several unemployed and quite a few 'Ducker And Divers'.

The one other thing which we all have in common - apart from our Brexit vote - is that ALL of us understand the real issues concerning the EU and our membership of it.

So while you are, of course, entitled to your opinion, you will forgive me if I elect not to pay heed to it, and this is based upon the fact - that in my opinion, which I am as EQUALLY entitled to - it is ALL YOUR posts which are so ill informed and erroneous as to the true facts concerning current affairs, including politics and the EU, that they attest to YOU having the woeful LACK of any REAL understanding of the issues often debated on here, NOT 'Joe Public'."

And YOUR COMMENTS:

"And none of this has any effect on the majority of people on both sides who likely voted what they voted for based on soundbites and sensationalism rather than solid facts."
..........................................END OF DUPLICATION.............................

I THEN and only then, quoted you and responded to you:

......................................DUPLICATION. .................................
".Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezzy View Post
And none of this has any effect on the majority of people on both sides who likely voted what they voted for based on soundbites and sensationalism rather than solid facts."

My response:

"No, but I do not care about any 'majority of people on both sides' only about myself when I am being erroneously labelled and demeaned by being 'tarred with that famous 'same brush' which some use to make sweeping and mocking generalisations about 'Joe Public' - which are both arrogantly presumptive and erroneous anyway."

............................END OF DUPLICATION......................................

Now WHERE in the above exchanges are you justified in claiming that I was obviously referring to ANY points YOU made about the uninformed masses?

You are doing an excellent job of confusing the truth, but that truth is:

1) that I quoted and responded to Kizzy, and not you.
2) that it was you who then quoted me and commented and NOT as you claim.
3) Even when I DID respond to your response tome, I quoted you and made no mention of 'uninformed masses'

I we are going to debate - and I love debating with you Dezzy - at least let's do it honestly, and that means not attempting to deflect and evade by rewriting history.

The truth is there from post number 126 onwards.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I think that we're (voters that is..)..are all informed as much as we feel we need to be informed or can be because it's so often the case as well that people effected most with any government in many countries etc are those whose lives are quite a struggle anyway.../struggling with low incomes../with cost of living rises and worrying how they'll manage../with families and needs that have to be met etc...these are always the people to worry about most I think so obviously would want to feel confidently 'informed' in their voting decisions and what things would mean to them but then that's conflicted though with the time that many have available to inform themselves, so a bit of a catch really...working/looking after families/working out how to make it all work and add up etc...so yeah, information to inform is always available but not always able to be sought.../I think it can also work the other way though as well and being 'too informed' and equally as confusing in making decisions because it's such an overload and over-thinking and over-thinking and etc...anyway, democracy never required informed, it just requited a vote so even the smallest of reasons for a vote of whatever has to be equally valid...

...anyways with both Brexit and Trump, I think the similarity has been that because they're both essentially votes for 'different', there hasn't really been that much to inform as such, it's more 'potentially' of an unknown...all theory really...with Brexit, yeah we have been outside the EU before../not always a part of but we can't discount the years we have been in it so it's still a complete unknown at the present so, so much less to inform really of our future etc...and the same with Trump, he's not a politician in the sense that the world has ever known, so in his role/his history that would be appropriate etc../very little to inform...I think for me a big part with both is what the effect and the positive effect for those very people who would struggle to inform themselves because of the general struggle of their lives...and also before any paths can go forward, things that appear to have been more brought to the surface do need validation and addressing I think...Trump really as a lot of work and actions to do now with so many of his prejudiced and yes, racist comments because once something is out there, it can't be taken back but can 'cause' so much damage, it became out of his control in what was incited in others..(some others obviously, whose own thoughts and feelings felt 'fed' by this powerful figure..)...Trump contributed../Trump is president elect/Trump has to address and take his responsibility...no matter what percentage it is because he has promoted intolerance and that can't be acceptable no matter what the political beliefs...it's okay to be seen with the 'important' people of the world as he sees them but the important people really are much closer to home and right under his nose and the ones he should be focusing on really...

This for me.
Valid points all through and especially as to the hard work Trump needs to do too, which he has after the discord he has brought about from his campaign.
As you rightly point out of a racist nature too at times, by his own choice.

I said plenty here yesterday on this and other included issues so will leave it there.
Just had to commend this post.

[arista]

"and we ALL voted for Brexit. "


Yes Kirk
I did and many of my Team
Not my PA though
I can not control her all the way to a Vote.
I sure a Robot PA will be Far better

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by arista

"and we ALL voted for Brexit. "


Yes Kirk
I did and many of my Team
Not my PA though
I can not control her all the way to a Vote.
I sure a Robot PA will be Far better

Sack her Arista - A Robot PA will be yours to command.

[arista]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Sack her Arista - A Robot PA will be yours to command.

No she has got me out of a tangle,
so I respect her.
Loyal as well.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

It is one thing for one to 'rewrite History' when all records of that history has been 'removed' so no verification of that rewritten history is possible Dezzy, but wholly another to attempt to do so when the history being 'rewritten' is still THERE - recorded for posterity and for all to refer to for verification purposes.

AND the TRUTH of this issue is STILL on this thread and PROVES, that I did NOT refer to you or any post of yours in the "post which you quoted" or ANY other of my posts.

Your statement is a DOWNRIGHT FALSEHOOD.

I quoted Kizzy's post and ONLY Kizzy's post as can CLEARLY be evidenced by referring to post number 126, but duplicated below, anyway:

....................DUPLICATION................... ...................

"Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy View Post
....No. joe public does not have a clue what is about to theoretically knee him in the nads concerning brexit."

And MY comments:

"I am a member of 'Joe Public'and so are DOZENS of my friends and associates as are dozens more of people who I could best term 'acquaintances', and we ALL voted for Brexit.

Among these people are four Company Directors, two Doctors, two Solicitors, several Nurses, three Policemen, several Teachers, and several SME business owners, as well as dozens of 'Blue Collar Workers, several unemployed and quite a few 'Ducker And Divers'.

The one other thing which we all have in common - apart from our Brexit vote - is that ALL of us understand the real issues concerning the EU and our membership of it.

So while you are, of course, entitled to your opinion, you will forgive me if I elect not to pay heed to it, and this is based upon the fact - that in my opinion, which I am as EQUALLY entitled to - it is ALL YOUR posts which are so ill informed and erroneous as to the true facts concerning current affairs, including politics and the EU, that they attest to YOU having the woeful LACK of any REAL understanding of the issues often debated on here, NOT 'Joe Public'."
..........................END OF DUPLICATION....................................

So you see Dezzy, I responded to Kizzy's post NOT any post of yours, and HERE is your LATER RESPONSE to the above post of mine TO KIZZY, which you quoted but which up until then had NOTHING to do with you. YOU invited yourself into the discussion by quoting me and commenting on my post:

............................DUPLICATION........... ................................
"Quote:
Originally Posted by kirklancaster View Post
I am a member of 'Joe Public'and so are DOZENS of my friends and associates as are dozens more of people who I could best term 'acquaintances', and we ALL voted for Brexit.

Among these people are four Company Directors, two Doctors, two Solicitors, several Nurses, three Policemen, several Teachers, and several SME business owners, as well as dozens of 'Blue Collar Workers, several unemployed and quite a few 'Ducker And Divers'.

The one other thing which we all have in common - apart from our Brexit vote - is that ALL of us understand the real issues concerning the EU and our membership of it.

So while you are, of course, entitled to your opinion, you will forgive me if I elect not to pay heed to it, and this is based upon the fact - that in my opinion, which I am as EQUALLY entitled to - it is ALL YOUR posts which are so ill informed and erroneous as to the true facts concerning current affairs, including politics and the EU, that they attest to YOU having the woeful LACK of any REAL understanding of the issues often debated on here, NOT 'Joe Public'."

And YOUR COMMENTS:

"And none of this has any effect on the majority of people on both sides who likely voted what they voted for based on soundbites and sensationalism rather than solid facts."
..........................................END OF DUPLICATION.............................

I THEN and only then, quoted you and responded to you:

......................................DUPLICATION. .................................
".Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezzy View Post
And none of this has any effect on the majority of people on both sides who likely voted what they voted for based on soundbites and sensationalism rather than solid facts."

My response:

"No, but I do not care about any 'majority of people on both sides' only about myself when I am being erroneously labelled and demeaned by being 'tarred with that famous 'same brush' which some use to make sweeping and mocking generalisations about 'Joe Public' - which are both arrogantly presumptive and erroneous anyway."

............................END OF DUPLICATION......................................

Now WHERE in the above exchanges are you justified in claiming that I was obviously referring to ANY points YOU made about the uninformed masses?

You are doing an excellent job of confusing the truth, but that truth is:

1) that I quoted and responded to Kizzy, and not you.
2) that it was you who then quoted me and commented and NOT as you claim.
3) Even when I DID respond to your response tome, I quoted you and made no mention of 'uninformed masses'

I we are going to debate - and I love debating with you Dezzy - at least let's do it honestly, and that means not attempting to deflect and evade by rewriting history.

The truth is there from post number 126 onwards.

Is it really worth writing Essays on what essentially is 'he said, she said?'

If you have a point to make about me saying that most voters are informed then make it.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Is it really worth writing Essays on what essentially is 'he said, she said?'

If you have a point to make about me saying that most voters are informed then make it.

yes there is a point and its wrong to devalue a brilliant post

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by the truth

yes there is a point and its wrong to devalue a brilliant post

Thank you The Truth.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I think that we're (voters that is..)..are all informed as much as we feel we need to be informed or can be because it's so often the case as well that people effected most with any government in many countries etc are those whose lives are quite a struggle anyway.../struggling with low incomes../with cost of living rises and worrying how they'll manage../with families and needs that have to be met etc...these are always the people to worry about most I think so obviously would want to feel confidently 'informed' in their voting decisions and what things would mean to them but then that's conflicted though with the time that many have available to inform themselves, so a bit of a catch really...working/looking after families/working out how to make it all work and add up etc...so yeah, information to inform is always available but not always able to be sought.../I think it can also work the other way though as well and being 'too informed' and equally as confusing in making decisions because it's such an overload and over-thinking and over-thinking and etc...anyway, democracy never required informed, it just requited a vote so even the smallest of reasons for a vote of whatever has to be equally valid...

...anyways with both Brexit and Trump, I think the similarity has been that because they're both essentially votes for 'different', there hasn't really been that much to inform as such, it's more 'potentially' of an unknown...all theory really...with Brexit, yeah we have been outside the EU before../not always a part of but we can't discount the years we have been in it so it's still a complete unknown at the present so, so much less to inform really of our future etc...and the same with Trump, he's not a politician in the sense that the world has ever known, so in his role/his history that would be appropriate etc../very little to inform...I think for me a big part with both is what the effect and the positive effect for those very people who would struggle to inform themselves because of the general struggle of their lives...and also before any paths can go forward, things that appear to have been more brought to the surface do need validation and addressing I think...Trump really as a lot of work and actions to do now with so many of his prejudiced and yes, racist comments because once something is out there, it can't be taken back but can 'cause' so much damage, it became out of his control in what was incited in others..(some others obviously, whose own thoughts and feelings felt 'fed' by this powerful figure..)...Trump contributed../Trump is president elect/Trump has to address and take his responsibility...no matter what percentage it is because he has promoted intolerance and that can't be acceptable no matter what the political beliefs...it's okay to be seen with the 'important' people of the world as he sees them but the important people really are much closer to home and right under his nose and the ones he should be focusing on really...

This post

People vote for different reasons I think, but I feel yours is a common reasoning. This past election I voted Libertarian for my Congressional representatives because I am done with the oppression that is coming from both of the major parties as a citizen. I feel put in the middle and I am not really interested in their party favors. Been there, bought the t-shirt, have been on the rides. Ironically enough, many of the reps I'd voted for previously (dem/rep) over the years have moved on or retired since I've returned to TX... so... even harder for me to justify a vote in their directions when both these parties have become overly divisive and overbearing in terms of the direction this country goes... so the noobs are taking most of the flack for it now, when realistically it's probably taken quite a bit of work on many people's parts for our govt to become this constipated. Ironic but still true now as I think about it.

[Kizzy]

"Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy View Post
....No. joe public does not have a clue what is about to theoretically knee him in the nads concerning brexit."

And MY comments:

"I am a member of 'Joe Public'and so are DOZENS of my friends and associates as are dozens more of people who I could best term 'acquaintances', and we ALL voted for Brexit.

You may have voted for brexit... that is irrelevant, my point related to the fact you your friends, acquaintances or indeed the rest of the UK have no clue what the impact of brexit will be.

ALL YOUR posts which are so ill informed and erroneous as to the true facts concerning current affairs, including politics and the EU, that they attest to YOU having the woeful LACK of any REAL understanding of the issues often debated on here

Well I'm sorry you feel that way Kirk, feel free to disregard my posts as replying to them would be a waste of your time.

However 'informed' you profess to be, with no information forthcoming from the govt regarding brexit it's confusing as to how you remain so knowledgeable on this issue.
Perhaps you have a crystal ball?

[arista]

"People vote for different reasons I think,"

Sure Maru

Welcome to Democracy

[Maru]

Get Cockwomble Juice Now! Naturally Sourced 100% natural formula and man-inerals





But does it have iodine?

Also will it attract sweet sexy Trump supporting women... or just other Trump men? ...

[Kizzy]

Aw..... Trump supporters can't get it up, figures

[arista]

Originally Posted by Maru

Get Cockwomble Juice Now! Naturally Sourced 100% natural formula and man-inerals





But does it have iodine?

Also will it attract sweet sexy Trump supporting women... or just other Trump men? ...

He is clever
CNN HD used a clip of his Video
on Worldwide TV broadcast
last night

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You're asking me to explain the blatantly obvious.

Go ask most people who voted in the last election and ask them if they know who their local MP is and what their stances are on various issues. I'm telling you now that most people won't know or care. That's being uninformed.

Brexit was pretty much decided on the issue of immigration despite the fact that neither possibility would have changed immigration for better or worse thus the people who voted Remain or Leave based on that are uninformed.

People voted for Trump because he represented a mindset that appealed to them or they opposed Hillary or the soundbites of building walls to keep rapists and muslims out appealed to them. I imagine very few people voted for him based on his policies, most of which benefit the 1% and is predicted to be disastrous for the middle and working classes of America. People voted for him because of who he is, not what he'd bring to the table. That's being uninformed.

I'm not uninformed as are most people here because we all take time to look into the issues we discuss. It's rather naive to believe that everyone puts in the same effort as we do.

I noticed you didn't brign anything to the discussion with that post aside from an attempt to get a personal dig in though. You should consider trying to add something of value to discussions in the future.

Call it 'coming to the point', isn't that what you asked another poster to do, a poster who you accused of 'writing an essay' in his very detailed and well informed response to a post of yours.

Which is it to be - to the point or adding to the debate with detailed posts - you can't have it both ways. Maybe too detailed is too challenging , so maybe I should be brief and to the point.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Kirk did state 'in my opinion' before stating that the posters views on this subject on here are 'Ill informed' and 'erroneous'.A perfectly valid opinion to hold.
And he was not saying that he has some kind of 'monopoly' on knowing people of different professions.
He is replying to a very bold statement that is attempting to imply that people who voted to leave the EU are somehow 'ill informed' and are about to get some kind of big 'kick in the nads' that somehow Mystic Kizzy knows about and all of us uninformed dummies who voted to leave are totally ignorant to.
He is offering a rebuttal to this by giving examples of people from all different walks of life and all members of 'Joe public'(as all of us are) who made an informed decision when they cast their vote.

Well just to clarify... I mentioned Joe Public,which is every last one of us is it not?
Not just those who wanted brexit EVERYONE.

We were then and continue to be by definition ill informed, as there was only misinformation prior to the referendum and NO subsequent information to be had in relation to brexit..... Remember? 'Brexit means brexit', that in my opinion does not quantify as information which serves any purpose it is simply a nonsense statement.

I'm not mystic.... That is just how it is I'm afraid, sorry if anyone' bubble was burst. My statement however bold was perfectly valid.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Call it 'coming to the point', isn't that what you asked another poster to do, a poster who you accused of 'writing an essay' in his very detailed and well informed response to a post of yours.

Which is it to be - to the point or adding to the debate with detailed posts - you can't have it both ways. Maybe too detailed is too challenging , so maybe I should be brief and to the point.

To be fair on the last page Kirk stated to Joey that his posts were baffling and time consuming.... Maybe Joeys posts are just too detailed and challenging for him?
Considering the post you refer to was in the main an off topic reference to myself, then to question the validity of it is perfectly acceptable.

[empire]

lets point this out, but the liberal left have been hijacked by privately educated champagne socialists who have been eating out of a gold spoon and fork for most of their lives, and don't get me started on socialism, because that would kill a great country like the united states, look what it has done to europe, greece,spain,france,sweden, these good countries have been destroyed by it, the EU is a socialist utopia that is fast sinking into the sea, and the liberal left and the socialists of today hate freedom and fair elections, the democrats brown nosed the voters who they where going to sell their jobs to china and mexico, and lets see the truth but how could the democrats win the blue collar voters when they where going to sell their jobs abroad, and when they helped obama into the white house, all he done was say screw them, its all crap to say that people who voted for trump are sexist,racist,homophobic and very uneducated, those words where the rhetoric that they kept on shouting at voters, and the more they did it, the more they push those voters into the arms of trump, and why nationalism in europe is rising so fast is that the left wing idiots think that using the same rhetoric like they did in america will win them votes,

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

"Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy View Post
....No. joe public does not have a clue what is about to theoretically knee him in the nads concerning brexit."

And MY comments:

"I am a member of 'Joe Public'and so are DOZENS of my friends and associates as are dozens more of people who I could best term 'acquaintances', and we ALL voted for Brexit.

You may have voted for brexit... that is irrelevant, my point related to the fact you your friends, acquaintances or indeed the rest of the UK have no clue what the impact of brexit will be.

ALL YOUR posts which are so ill informed and erroneous as to the true facts concerning current affairs, including politics and the EU, that they attest to YOU having the woeful LACK of any REAL understanding of the issues often debated on here

Well I'm sorry you feel that way Kirk, feel free to disregard my posts as replying to them would be a waste of your time.

However 'informed' you profess to be, with no information forthcoming from the govt regarding brexit it's confusing as to how you remain so knowledgeable on this issue.
Perhaps you have a crystal ball?

If you are on the ground floor of a 100 storey 'skyscraper which is collapsing all around you, and one of those inside with you is the actual builder, and he confesses that the entire building is unsafe because it was built of substandard materials and jerry-built, you do not stop to debate what the future may hold OUTSIDE of that building - you get the flock out of there, BEFORE all those 99 other storeys come a crashing down all over you.

I did not NEED to KNOW the precise minutiae of any Brexit - and No one COULD know anyway, because no one knows the future, only God, and as Burns said: “The best laid schemes o' mice an' men, gang aft a-gley", so even the best and most expert of plans are no guarantor of successful execution.

I do not need to know the precise minutiae of Brexit, because there was and is, a vast wealth of clear, hard, irrefutable evidence which indicts the EU of being corrupt, wasteful, sinister, and hugely damaging for this country and its citizens - especially the lower working classes and the poor.

I posted a lot of this evidence in long, detailed, comprehensive posts on many pages throughout the 'EU Referendum ,In or OUT' thread which I started back in February, but if you elected to ignore that evidence because it did not dovetail into your own ideologies, that is your problem, and it neither impairs the quality or reduces the Truth of that evidence, nor does it invalidate my reasons for supporting Brexit.

In addition to all the charts and graphs and genuine statistics,there is then of course, over 4 decades of my own direct personal experience - as a young employed worker, a self-employed worker, a Company Director and employer, and a TAX payer - of witnessing how terrible the EU is for Britain, and how all those hundreds of billions of pounds of tax payers money which we pour into it, gives extremely negative Returns On Investment.

So you see, this Joe Public - and a wide circle of his friends and associates - UNDERSTANDS fully what the EU is, and just how wholly damaging membership of it has been for the UK and the majority of its citizens, and just WHY we are better off leaving that corrupt about-to-implode scamfest.

You believe what you want to.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

To be fair on the last page Kirk stated to Joey that his posts were baffling and time consuming.... Maybe Joeys posts are just too detailed and challenging for him?
Considering the post you refer to was in the main an off topic reference to myself, then to question the validity of it is perfectly acceptable.

I am not you. No post is too detailed or challenging for me.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

If you are on the ground floor of a 100 storey 'skyscraper which is collapsing all around you, and one of those inside with you is the actual builder, and he confesses that the entire building is unsafe because it was built of substandard materials and jerry-built, you do not stop to debate what the future may hold OUTSIDE of that building - you get the flock out of there, BEFORE all those 99 other storeys come a crashing down all over you.

I did not NEED to KNOW the precise minutiae of any Brexit - and No one COULD know anyway, because no one knows the future, only God, and as Burns said: “The best laid schemes o' mice an' men, gang aft a-gley", so even the best and most expert of plans are no guarantor of successful execution.

I do not need to know the precise minutiae of Brexit, because there was and is, a vast wealth of clear, hard, irrefutable evidence which indicts the EU of being corrupt, wasteful, sinister, and hugely damaging for this country and its citizens - especially the lower working classes and the poor.

I posted a lot of this evidence in long, detailed, comprehensive posts on many pages throughout the 'EU Referendum ,In or OUT' thread which I started back in February, but if you elected to ignore that evidence because it did not dovetail into your own ideologies, that is your problem, and it neither impairs the quality or reduces the Truth of that evidence, nor does it invalidate my reasons for supporting Brexit.

In addition to all the charts and graphs and genuine statistics,there is then of course, over 4 decades of my own direct personal experience - as a young employed worker, a self-employed worker, a Company Director and employer, and a TAX payer - of witnessing how terrible the EU is for Britain, and how all those hundreds of billions of pounds of tax payers money which we pour into it, gives extremely negative Returns On Investment.

So you see, this Joe Public - and a wide circle of his friends and associates - UNDERSTANDS fully what the EU is, and just how wholly damaging membership of it has been for the UK and the majority of its citizens, and just WHY we are better off leaving that corrupt about-to-implode scamfest.

You believe what you want to.

I posted information from the governments own website which clearly stated we got more out of the EU than we paid in.
You again have misunderstood my previous post, I stated the Joe Public will feel brexit is a huge kick in the nads, it doesn't in any way suggest anything relating to who knew what prior to the referendum does it?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I am not you. No post is too detailed or challenging for me.

There's no need to be rude.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Well just to clarify... I mentioned Joe Public,which is every last one of us is it not?
Not just those who wanted brexit EVERYONE.

We were then and continue to be by definition ill informed, as there was only misinformation prior to the referendum and NO subsequent information to be had in relation to brexit..... Remember? 'Brexit means brexit', that in my opinion does not quantify as information which serves any purpose it is simply a nonsense statement.

I'm not mystic.... That is just how it is I'm afraid, sorry if anyone' bubble was burst. My statement however bold was perfectly valid.

Exactly.

I still do not get how this thread, related to Hillary Clinton supporters and the USA election has been taken down a different road and into yet another EU leaving thread.

However, you keep making your points, I do not consider any points made by anyone wrong from their own perspectives, which is really all what anyone's opinions are.
I most certainly do not consider yours ill informed in any way either, so you hold on to your views and don't take any notice of possibly any trying to possibly then trying to claim any high ground over you.
Where and how you have come to stand on issues is as important as anyone else.

On and off here, all people have their truths as they see them and others have differing ones, from whatever and how they are looking at things too.

Adding more and more put downs and near insults just for differing views means an argument is likely to be lost by whoever chooses to do the put downs.
Anyway, good points in what I have put in bold of your post there as like you that is all I have heard, brexit means brexit, nothing else of real substance whatsoever.
That is hardly informing anyone and no one can even yet say at this time, just what the real and full picture of brexit is going to be, no one, no matter their own reasons why they voted for same.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Exactly.

I still do not get how this thread, related to Hillary Clinton supporters and the USA election has been taken down a different road and into yet another EU leaving thread.

However, you keep making your points, I do not consider any points made by anyone wrong from their own perspectives, which is really all what anyone's opinions are.
I most certainly do not consider yours ill informed in any way either, so you hold on to your views and don't take any notice of possibly any trying to possibly then trying to claim any high ground over you.
Where and how you have come to stand on issues is as important as anyone else.

On and off here, all people have their truths as they see them and others have differing ones, from whatever and how they are looking at things too.

Adding more and more put downs and near insults just for differing views means an argument is likely to be lost by whoever chooses to do the put downs.
Anyway, good points in what I have put in bold of your post there as like you that is all I have heard, brexit means brexit, nothing else of real substance whatsoever.
That is hardly informing anyone and no one can even yet say at this time, just what the real and full picture of brexit is going to be, no one, no matter their own reasons why they voted for same.

Thank you Joey, I have learned on here to simply state my truths and disregard anyone who attempts to stifle my voice in an attempt to dominate the conversation.
I really hope the part in bold makes my feelings crystal clear on this issue, I don't know how it got to brexit either But it kind of fits due to the media driven hype surrounding both issue.