[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Don't give up Kizzy, Conor McGregor would never

This did not make me laugh out loud. If Conor was posting on here, he could say that the moon is made of Irish Cheddar, and I would be the FIRST to AGREE with him.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

This is NOT confrontational or baiting, but a simple question to you - and Niamh - because I just do not get it;

How did you educe from that quoted post of Niamh's that she was specifically referring to you???

I just do not see it at all.

Yes - I get that LT wrote: "with ref to Kizzy and her assertion that the far right are taking over SD" as a HEADER, but Niamh posted her comment DIRECTLY beneath LT's comment of: "Make some more threads", which means that THIS is the comment to which she was agreeing - in my opinion.

Make some threads
Yeah, this is good advice, I agree

Further reason to believe that Niamh was NOT referring to ANYONE in particular, is the fact that directly ABOVE his comment of 'make some more threads' LT also wrote:

"My advice to the others (not you neem) who moan about SD"

The above COULD NOT BE more clearly addressed to 'others' in general.

So:

It would seem logical to me that when someone comments "Yes I agree with this" DIRECTLY beneath text which says: "My advice to others who moan about SD is to make some more threads" - they are referring to that statement and not any other statements far above it.

In my opinion anyway.

Yep opinions are like arseholes, we all have one. That was mine, if you don't agree I don't particularly care but I appreciate your right to your view.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Don't give up Kizzy, Conor McGregor would never

Well, you know me...

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Yep opinions are like arseholes, we all have one. That was mine, if you don't agree I don't particularly care but I appreciate your right to your view.

Who cares whether you care or not? And NO I don't agree with your opinion but I appreciate your right to it. .

[Niamh.]

oh fgs seriously

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Well, you know me...

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

oh fgs seriously

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

why? SDs isn't exempt from the rules of the forum

I've played with the idea of making a "Wild West" subsection in the past... and just remove general visibility of it from the forum tree (i.e. no info on posts, last thread, etc)... and just letting the arguments finish there with really limited capabilities (like no images, hourly post limits, etc )... just for ****s and giggles... That is so strange to me... most un-moderated places of the net are the crack dens of the interwebs. I'd take a few unnecessarily deleted posts, a few unnice mods, over that any day of the week... and the mods here are really nice about it...

On the other hand, most users these days (any site) seem to care less about transparency... they want that magic to happen, but then they don't like seeing mod notices in their own posts sometimes... well, how do you get a general idea or who is and isn't moderating fairly and that your freedom of speech is being honored? You don't... hence why people instead accuse left and right... and really they do it as a free service, it's not something we are entitled to... it is a private site after all.

I haven't had an infraction or ban in so many years. The only time I was banned from a site was because the owner was a true cockwomble of the highest caliber and I and a few other people were asking common sense questions about his strange business ethics... he didn't like those questions. So we were banned under the rug and I just left it there because I was thinking of quitting there anyway... only he ended up in court a few years later with a mass user exodus over a tarnished rep because he ripped so many people off.

Anyway, TiBB is no where close to being a badly run site imo.... I feel like give credit where it is due. This site really is a privilege that we all share. Even if there are a few unfair shakes and questionable bans/edits/deletes here and there... the mods have been more than willing to listen to all suggestions. Most places just delete or lock threads when those things come up because of the inevitable drama... They're like **** you, if you don't like it... leave?

Several people have in numbers mentioned they don't like coming to this section for several reasons... a vast majority of them center around a small minority of users. There are other people who use the site too and they feel their enjoyment of it is impacted by a small minority of the user base who can just as easily remove their personal impediments by utilizing ignore. Something the forum has provided actually as the intended solution to this problem. Mods are really just there to keep threads on track and make sure everything runs the way that it is intended... they are not meant to manage personal grievances on here... instead of doubling the mod's work, why not just utilize ignore as a courtesy to the mod team? That way SD can at least a become a little bit more pleasant... maybe then more people will come post and it will be enjoyed by all, not just "justice served" for a small minority... because let's be realistic, the trolling will never stop on some people's ends... at least do this so we can all enjoy SD more. I've been baited too and those go instantly people are on my squished list. It doesn't have to be for any real particular reason other than they bait you .... we filter people in real life all the time... not everyone will get along ... nobody does. It's unrealistic to believe all will.

I mean how do you feel when you walk into a shop and the stuff is missing/gone through or otherwise left unkempt with food spilled on seats and product because of a certain uncourteous individuals... that's how I feel when I come into SD sometimes... so keep the section nicer for other people by keeping the personal issues to PM. That's courtesy. Otherwise, SD will remain as it is... it'll be the ASDA (I guess it's like a Walmart...) of TiBB... and the only people to blame will be those who don't care about enough about maintaining it for others. It's a community, so that's who it should be managed by.

[user104658]

One of these days Kirk and Kizzy are just going to have to meet up and bang it out, tbh.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

One of these days Kirk and Kizzy are just going to have to meet up and bang it out, tbh.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Maru

I've played with the idea of making a "Wild West" subsection in the past... and just remove general visibility of it from the forum tree (i.e. no info on posts, last thread, etc)... and just letting the arguments finish there with really limited capabilities (like no images, hourly post limits, etc )... just for ****s and giggles... That is so strange to me... most un-moderated places of the net are the crack dens of the interwebs. I'd take a few unnecessarily deleted posts, a few unnice mods, over that any day of the week... and the mods here are really nice about it...

On the other hand, most users these days (any site) seem to care less about transparency... they want that magic to happen, but then they don't like seeing mod notices in their own posts sometimes... well, how do you get a general idea or who is and isn't moderating fairly and that your freedom of speech is being honored? You don't... hence why people instead accuse left and right... and really they do it as a free service, it's not something we are entitled to... it is a private site after all.

I haven't had an infraction or ban in so many years. The only time I was banned from a site was because the owner was a true cockwomble of the highest caliber and I and a few other people were asking common sense questions about his strange business ethics... he didn't like those questions. So we were banned under the rug and I just left it there because I was thinking of quitting there anyway... only he ended up in court a few years later with a mass user exodus over a tarnished rep because he ripped so many people off.

Anyway, TiBB is no where close to being a badly run site imo.... I feel like give credit where it is due. This site really is a privilege that we all share. Even if there are a few unfair shakes and questionable bans/edits/deletes here and there... the mods have been more than willing to listen to all suggestions. Most places just delete or lock threads when those things come up because of the inevitable drama... They're like **** you, if you don't like it... leave?

Several people have in numbers mentioned they don't like coming to this section for several reasons... a vast majority of them center around a small minority of users. There are other people who use the site too and they feel their enjoyment of it is impacted by a small minority of the user base who can just as easily remove their personal impediments by utilizing ignore. Something the forum has provided actually as the intended solution to this problem. Mods are really just there to keep threads on track and make sure everything runs the way that it is intended... they are not meant to manage personal grievances on here... instead of doubling the mod's work, why not just utilize ignore as a courtesy to the mod team? That way SD can at least a become a little bit more pleasant... maybe then more people will come post and it will be enjoyed by all, not just "justice served" for a small minority... because let's be realistic, the trolling will never stop on some people's ends... at least do this so we can all enjoy SD more. I've been baited too and those go instantly people are on my squished list. It doesn't have to be for any real particular reason other than they bait you .... we filter people in real life all the time... not everyone will get along ... nobody does. It's unrealistic to believe all will.

I mean how do you feel when you walk into a shop and the stuff is missing/gone through or otherwise left unkempt with food spilled on seats and product because of a certain uncourteous individuals... that's how I feel when I come into SD sometimes... so keep the section nicer for other people by keeping the personal issues to PM. That's courtesy. Otherwise, SD will remain as it is... it'll be the ASDA (I guess it's like a Walmart...) of TiBB... and the only people to blame will be those who don't care about enough about maintaining it for others. It's a community, so that's who it should be managed by.

I don't actually think it's that big a deal, but that just me maybe

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Maru

Several people have in numbers mentioned they don't like coming to this section for several reasons... a vast majority of them center around a small minority of users. There are other people who use the site too and they feel their enjoyment of it is impacted by a small minority of the user base who can just as easily remove their personal impediments by utilizing ignore. Something the forum has provided actually as the intended solution to this problem. Mods are really just there to keep threads on track and make sure everything runs the way that it is intended... they are not meant to manage personal grievances on here... instead of doubling the mod's work, why not just utilize ignore as a courtesy to the mod team? That way SD can at least a become a little bit more pleasant... maybe then more people will come post and it will be enjoyed by all, not just "justice served" for a small minority... because let's be realistic, the trolling will never stop on some people's ends... at least do this so we can all enjoy SD more. I've been baited too and those go instantly people are on my squished list. It doesn't have to be for any real particular reason other than they bait you .... we filter people in real life all the time... not everyone will get along ... nobody does. It's unrealistic to believe all will.

The problem is that TiBB and especially SD's has a relatively small user base and that creates problems with the ignore function. If two frequently-posting, "high-impact" members have each other on ignore, threads can very quickly become confusing and disjointed. Not just for the people using ignore, but for everyone. If multiple people have multiple others on ignore the effect is even worse. I have had a few people on my ignore list in the past but it literally has to be limited to those who don't post often, and ONLY really post to wind people up... as soon as you stick a member who posts "key" thread-altering posts on ignore, no matter how much their posts irritate you, everything becomes much harder to follow.

Plus if someone else quotes them you see the post anyway .

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The problem is that TiBB and especially SD's has a relatively small user base and that creates problems with the ignore function. If two frequently-posting, "high-impact" members have each other on ignore, threads can very quickly become confusing and disjointed. Not just for the people using ignore, but for everyone. If multiple people have multiple others on ignore the effect is even worse. I have had a few people on my ignore list in the past but it literally has to be limited to those who don't post often, and ONLY really post to wind people up... as soon as you stick a member who posts "key" thread-altering posts on ignore, no matter how much their posts irritate you, everything becomes much harder to follow.

Plus if someone else quotes them you see the post anyway .

I agree with that in general and maybe my commentary is colored by own experiences. Like, when I have requested other people to use ignore, they expect mods to be the court of law instead of taking it upon themselves to fix the situation. They are so deep in the drama, with no objective ROI that can be see by anyone (personal or discussion-wise), that they would rather fight it out in the forum than do what would be easier for really everyone and just keep it either scan their posts or add that person to ignore. Maybe it's my reading style, but the people I have on my list are not people I would necessarily miss as they are generally people involved in other aspects of discussions that I don't necessarily care for (like petty fights). Of course if someone carries discussions well, then I'm going to overlook the littler things because to me that would still make them a good poster to follow... Others are just temporary because I often see them in the list and forget why they were even there in the first place Maybe I didn't like their BB favorite or something...

[Ammi]

..I tried putting someone on ignore once just to see what it looked like to have someone on ignore and yeah, it would stop the flow of the thread and topic if the person that was on ignore was someone who was hugely participating and active in that thread so it's not an ideal either, we all have our own self ignore button..our own decision and ability to be able to ignore what isn't relevant and what we think is personal while carrying on with the topic and using the report button if we feel it's appropriate..(sorry Niamh, more work..)...

..in thinking about this a bit I think maybe Cherie's right to some extent in that a lot in SD isn't really that much different to how it has always been in the time I've known it.../different faces but same old story in that there will always be fundamental clashes, it's just part of life and differing personalities etc...and I think it's showing honesty about that as well and accepting any part played..ten people or so might have posted something similar but only one post often being 'picked out' and so often also being responded to with hostility, whatever the topic and whatever the thread...also some posts 'invite' that picking out with 'some people in this thread/some people here' type comments...I mean when two tribes want to go to war as it were and pointedly pick out posts because it's a specific tribe then realistically the ignore button is the last thing that is going to be used because those are the posts that have become all relevant in specifically wanting to see them..and the opposing opinions are fine/they're what help to induce thought..it's just accepting and part of the personal stuff and accepting any infractions/bans etc that might incur there and being too absorbed in whether others got infracted or not...just accepting responsibility really and that any 'fault' was all our own....


...anyways, I think what has been the case though is that this year has been a particularly negative year for news stories and a highly volatile political time as well..the threads have felt samey because the news has largely been samey so opinions to it all will obviously be samey as well...Brexit/USA elections and immigration playing a large part in media reporting with both...so we really haven't has a lot to branch out of and stretch ourselves really...(and also maybe why things do seem as though they're carried from one thread to another because threads can feel 'extensions of other threads etc../the topics so similar and covering the same ground..)...all just a really negative media year and uncertain time for us all in so many ways...and I think also, well I'll only speak for myself..whatever is going on in a thread and however side-tracked it may be getting with personal stuff etc...I'll still join it if I want to comment on a topic but the times I don't are more me and maybe I'm in a 'can't be bothered today' vibe, so more my own perspective on a specific day.../that's really all that changes for me...

[kirklancaster]

I think the answer is to have a BULLSHOT section, where any old posts - full of lies, misrepresentation, false facts, misinformation, propaganda and good old 100% political propaganda can be submitted and left in situ for posterity.

The rules should be simple;

No matter how preposterous the claims in such posts may be, NO ONE is allowed to challenge them.

No matter how easily disproved by GENUINE facts the False Facts in such posts may be, GENUINE FACTS will be disallowed.

Where any genuine facts may evade the vetting procedures which are in place, and actually find their way onto the threads, they will be ignored and the JURY of readers instructed to disregard the said genuine facts.

This should help alleviate the perceived problems a little.

Of course a new dictionary will have to be compiled complete with new definitions of commonly used words.

For instance:

A 'determiner' such as the word 'SOME' - which currently means 'an unspecified number' or 'partial number' when used as a pronoun - shall, when used in a sentence of facts by SOME members (no pun intended) be re- classified as meaning 'ALL' for the purposes of MISREPRESENTATION and creating unwarranted argument by other members, as in:

"Some immigrants are criminals"
"Some Muslims are extremists"
"Some Benefit Claimants are fraudsters"

Oh, nearly overlooked this:

Where genuinely true facts are used in an argument to support opinion, such facts should be disregarded if they do not hail from a Liberal Left leaning newspaper. It should not matter that these facts are mirrored in a hundred other media articles, they should STILL be dismissed and not be counted for the purposes of lending hard evidence to substantiate a viewpoint.

"What was that?" "Sorry?" "We already have a section like that?" "It' called what?" "Oh, Serious Debates & News". "Oh. Ok then... Only trying to help".

[Ammi]

..I think the thing is for me with 'facts/truth' etc, much like statistics really which is why I don't really do statistics very much...is that depending what site used/which media coverage etc, those facts and truths that we're looking for can be found to fit our own personal views and thoughts...because there are so many 'truths' to most situations.../personally I just prefer to hear an individual's own take on things, listen to their perspective and thoughts etc...

[user104658]

Preposterous claims like "migrants burned down a building because of Nutella and gummibears"?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I think the thing is for me with 'facts/truth' etc, much like statistics really which is why I don't really do statistics very much...is that depending what site used/which media coverage etc, those facts and truths that we're looking for can be found to fit our own personal views and thoughts...because there are so many 'truths' to most situations.../personally I just prefer to hear an individual's own take on things, listen to their perspective and thoughts etc...

There is only ONE truth to a truth though Ammi.

That truth can be presented in an article which is imbued with the author's own prejudices, but the kernel of that truth remains.

Take this thread topic for example;

It is BEYOND any refutation or denial, that these two immigrants burnt down the Asylum Centre - whether that fact is surrounded by perceived Right Wing anti-immigrant rhetoric in the Dail Mail, or Left Wing rhetoric in The Morning Star.

No ONE can deny that Thomas Mair murdered poor Jo Cox - no matter which source such a report hails from.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I tried putting someone on ignore once just to see what it looked like to have someone on ignore and yeah, it would stop the flow of the thread and topic if the person that was on ignore was someone who was hugely participating and active in that thread so it's not an ideal either, we all have our own self ignore button..our own decision and ability to be able to ignore what isn't relevant and what we think is personal while carrying on with the topic and using the report button if we feel it's appropriate..(sorry Niamh, more work..)...

..in thinking about this a bit I think maybe Cherie's right to some extent in that a lot in SD isn't really that much different to how it has always been in the time I've known it.../different faces but same old story in that there will always be fundamental clashes, it's just part of life and differing personalities etc...and I think it's showing honesty about that as well and accepting any part played..ten people or so might have posted something similar but only one post often being 'picked out' and so often also being responded to with hostility, whatever the topic and whatever the thread...also some posts 'invite' that picking out with 'some people in this thread/some people here' type comments...I mean when two tribes want to go to war as it were and pointedly pick out posts because it's a specific tribe then realistically the ignore button is the last thing that is going to be used because those are the posts that have become all relevant in specifically wanting to see them..and the opposing opinions are fine/they're what help to induce thought..it's just accepting and part of the personal stuff and accepting any infractions/bans etc that might incur there and being too absorbed in whether others got infracted or not...just accepting responsibility really and that any 'fault' was all our own....


...anyways, I think what has been the case though is that this year has been a particularly negative year for news stories and a highly volatile political time as well..the threads have felt samey because the news has largely been samey so opinions to it all will obviously be samey as well...Brexit/USA elections and immigration playing a large part in media reporting with both...so we really haven't has a lot to branch out of and stretch ourselves really...(and also maybe why things do seem as though they're carried from one thread to another because threads can feel 'extensions of other threads etc../the topics so similar and covering the same ground..)...all just a really negative media year and uncertain time for us all in so many ways...and I think also, well I'll only speak for myself..whatever is going on in a thread and however side-tracked it may be getting with personal stuff etc...I'll still join it if I want to comment on a topic but the times I don't are more me and maybe I'm in a 'can't be bothered today' vibe, so more my own perspective on a specific day.../that's really all that changes for me...

That's it in a nutshell, Brexit, immigration, Trump are all hugely divisive emotive subjects and that is reflected in the forum, personally I think people take the forum a bit too seriously, umbrage is taken at the merest of slights, I've never used the ignore function because I think in the main I can ignore when people are deliberately being provocative, I think it's got to to the point now where it's popular to slate SD and complain about it not being like the good old days and that opinion plays to the gallery, that's my take on it anyway, the debate about it is really is first world problems at its finest.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Preposterous claims like "migrants burned down a building because of Nutella and gummibears"?

The TRUTH is that the immigrants BURNED DOWN the Asylum Centre.

The claim that at least one of the protesting immigrants included the complaint that there was no confectionary among the other complaints HAS been reported by more than one source, but that is IRRELEVANT anyway because it is minor detail, minutiae which whether correct or not SHOULD NOT be clutched at like a straw by a drowning man to deflect from the TRUTH that THE IMMIGRANTS DID BURN DOWN the Asylum Centre.

Except for those who DO NOT LIKE THE FACT because it is counter to their politics, and have no mitigating argument to it.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

There is only ONE truth to a truth though Ammi.

That truth can be presented in an article which is imbued with the author's own prejudices, but the kernel of that truth remains.

Take this thread topic for example;

It is BEYOND any refutation or denial, that these two immigrants burnt down the Asylum Centre - whether that fact is surrounded by perceived Right Wing anti-immigrant rhetoric in the Dail Mail, or Left Wing rhetoric in The Morning Star.

No ONE can deny that Thomas Mair murdered poor Jo Cox - no matter which source such a report hails from.

...no obviously not Kirk, well I presume not, that isn't in question but there would be very little to debate with that, just reporting...it's the so many other perspectives of media coverage/portrayal etc/how we view those which present the debate though with these things.../that's how things branch off and debates are formed surely...like the headline that some media adopted in saying this was about gummibears etc...that's an emotional head-line, it's not using the facts that led to this, it's attention grabbing and leads to a very negative for all immigrants because if two people were responsible and did this/which is apparent..?...then the other however many immigrants in that camp had no part in it...

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I tried putting someone on ignore once just to see what it looked like to have someone on ignore and yeah, it would stop the flow of the thread and topic if the person that was on ignore was someone who was hugely participating and active in that thread so it's not an ideal either, we all have our own self ignore button..our own decision and ability to be able to ignore what isn't relevant and what we think is personal while carrying on with the topic and using the report button if we feel it's appropriate..(sorry Niamh, more work..)...

..in thinking about this a bit I think maybe Cherie's right to some extent in that a lot in SD isn't really that much different to how it has always been in the time I've known it.../different faces but same old story in that there will always be fundamental clashes, it's just part of life and differing personalities etc...and I think it's showing honesty about that as well and accepting any part played..ten people or so might have posted something similar but only one post often being 'picked out' and so often also being responded to with hostility, whatever the topic and whatever the thread...also some posts 'invite' that picking out with 'some people in this thread/some people here' type comments...I mean when two tribes want to go to war as it were and pointedly pick out posts because it's a specific tribe then realistically the ignore button is the last thing that is going to be used because those are the posts that have become all relevant in specifically wanting to see them..and the opposing opinions are fine/they're what help to induce thought..it's just accepting and part of the personal stuff and accepting any infractions/bans etc that might incur there and being too absorbed in whether others got infracted or not...just accepting responsibility really and that any 'fault' was all our own....


...anyways, I think what has been the case though is that this year has been a particularly negative year for news stories and a highly volatile political time as well..the threads have felt samey because the news has largely been samey so opinions to it all will obviously be samey as well...Brexit/USA elections and immigration playing a large part in media reporting with both...so we really haven't has a lot to branch out of and stretch ourselves really...(and also maybe why things do seem as though they're carried from one thread to another because threads can feel 'extensions of other threads etc../the topics so similar and covering the same ground..)...all just a really negative media moved the chyear and uncertain time for us all in so many ways...and I think also, well I'll only speak for myself..whatever is going on in a thread and however side-tracked it may be getting with personal stuff etc...I'll still join it if I want to comment on a topic but the times I don't are more me and maybe I'm in a 'can't be bothered today' vibe, so more my own perspective on a specific day.../that's really all that changes for me...

Lovely post, Ammi. I think worth reading a few times over as lots to read here. Sadly not all will have this mindset, which is why the tools are there to help.

Politics has pushed a lot of things overboard. Though I sometimes think maybe politics has not changed so much, but that we have changed... since political conditions are often in conjunction with such changes. Actually what hasn't changed?... maybe time to start a new thread...

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I think the answer is to have a BULLSHOT section, where any old posts - full of lies, misrepresentation, false facts, misinformation, propaganda and good old 100% political propaganda can be submitted and left in situ for posterity.

The rules should be simple;

No matter how preposterous the claims in such posts may be, NO ONE is allowed to challenge them.

No matter how easily disproved by GENUINE facts the False Facts in such posts may be, GENUINE FACTS will be disallowed.

Where any genuine facts may evade the vetting procedures which are in place, and actually find their way onto the threads, they will be ignored and the JURY of readers instructed to disregard the said genuine facts.

This should help alleviate the perceived problems a little.

Of course a new dictionary will have to be compiled complete with new definitions of commonly used words.

For instance:

A 'determiner' such as the word 'SOME' - which currently means 'an unspecified number' or 'partial number' when used as a pronoun - shall, when used in a sentence of facts by SOME members (no pun intended) be re- classified as meaning 'ALL' for the purposes of MISREPRESENTATION and creating unwarranted argument by other members, as in:

"Some immigrants are criminals"
"Some Muslims are extremists"
"Some Benefit Claimants are fraudsters"

Oh, nearly overlooked this:

Where genuinely true facts are used in an argument to support opinion, such facts should be disregarded if they do not hail from a Liberal Left leaning newspaper. It should not matter that these facts are mirrored in a hundred other media articles, should STILL be dismissed and not be counted for the purposes of lending hard evidence to substantiate a viewpoint.

"What was that?" "Sorry?" "We already have a section like that?" "It' called what?" "Oh, Serious Debates & News". "Oh. Ok then... Only trying to help".

I have a solution... sadly, it involves Nutella and Gummibears and we've run out.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Cherie

[/B]

That's it in a nutshell, Brexit, immigration, Trump are all hugely divisive emotive subjects and that is reflected in the forum, personally I think people take the forum a bit too seriously, umbrage is taken at the merest of slights, I've never used the ignore function because I think in the main I can ignore when people are deliberately being provocative, I think it's got to to the point now where it's popular to slate SD and complain about it not being like the good old days and that opinion plays to the gallery, that's my take on it anyway, the debate about it is really is first world problems at its finest.

...hmmm I don't think that SD is a specific 'target' though, there are squabbles etc in other parts of the forum..'chat thread wars' has always been a thing as well...and personally I don't think to say anything out loud is playing to a gallery either, quite the opposite but again maybe perspective because I'm often reluctant to say anything personally because I can almost feel 'glares of hostility'...and again, I can often just feel, oh it's not worth it, I'll just go to another thread and see what's happening there...

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Maru

Lovely post, Ammi. I think worth reading a few times over as lots to read here. Sadly not all will have this mindset, which is why the tools are there to help.

Politics has pushed a lot of things overboard. Though I sometimes think maybe politics has not changed so much, but that we have changed... since political conditions are often in conjunction with such changes. Actually what hasn't changed?... maybe time to start a new thread...



I have a solution... sadly, it involves Nutella and Gummibears and we've run out.

..I don't generally get too involved in politics threads tbh, those are things that I discuss more in my 'real life' circles but yeah it's all in all been such a big year that I have a bit and more than ever before...now that Brexit is decided though and now that Trump is THE MAN, I'll probably be involved less and less...(or maybe, who knows...never say never and keep those options open..)...

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...no obviously not Kirk, well I presume not, that isn't in question but there would be very little to debate with that, just reporting...it's the so many other perspectives of media coverage/portrayal etc/how we view those which present the debate though with these things.../that's how things branch off and debates are formed surely...like the headline that some media adopted in saying this was about gummibears etc...that's an emotional head-line, it's not using the facts that led to this, it's attention grabbing and leads to a very negative for all immigrants because if two people were responsible and did this/which is apparent..?...then the other however many immigrants in that camp had no part in it...

Which is exactly why I emboldened the text below in my OP:

German Red Cross Kitchen Master Stefan Gross said: “Most [migrants] were satisfied. There are always very few who complain.

This endorses what I said about the word 'Some' Ammi. I tried and do try to be fair in my posts, and I realise that THE MAJORITY of the immigrants there were grateful and not complaining, but that does not alter or obliterate the fact that SOME immigrants - who SHOULD have been grateful for being taken in, helped, accommodated, fed and otherwise nurtured - DID repay that charity and generosity of spirit by DEMANDING and COMPLAINING and ultimately committing ARSON with no thought for even the safety of their fellow migrants.

As with Islamic Extremists entering Europe by covertly posing as 'Refugees' - it does not take more than one or two to take huge numbers of lives.

If the lack of confectionary was not THE main reason for the protest and Arson, it was a PART of the complaints, so it is extremely pedantic and diversionary for SOME to be condemning any error in the minor details when NOT ONE WORD OF CONDEMNATION has been forthcoming from them in respect of the two immigrants actually committing this atrocious and potentially murderous crime.